Something I feel needs to be said.

[w00dy931]

I have only been on this forum for a few days but i find that I have been getting very frustrated with the way some people respond to my posts.

When I make a statement about what I believe, I am not in need of being educated on where this idea i am talking about in my faith originated from, especially to the point of telling me I am incorrectly representing what I believe. If a person hundreds of years ago was aloud to interpret the bible to mean something and write what they believed, that does not mean I am bound to that today.

My request to everyone in this forum, is that they would consider accepting somethings people say as what they believe, and not look to tell them how they need to correct what they are saying to better line up with their churches history.

I understand that with the mormon church a lot of teachings are held as churchwide doctrine and it is something the church holds to all together, but I dont have any of my beliefs because I was taught. My beliefs are based off of my own interpretations.

Also, I dont understand why some people have no interest in discussing, and simply prefer to say they are right and anyone who disagrees is wrong. I understand this is an LDS forum but if people of other faiths come here they should find honest discussion where people are willing to listen to other peoples ideas,we all have a different point of view on life and we have so much to learn from eachother. for the most part i find honest discussions, but sometimes I think pride is getting in the way of people considering others Ideas.

Thats it just some thoughts from someone new to the forum. I have really enjoyed being here overall though

[NeuroTypical]

Hi Woody,

Keep in mind, the people funding this board want a place where mormons can talk about what they believe and why. We do have the Christian Beliefs board for discussing and learning about what non-LDS Christians believe and why. But if you're on, for example, the LDS Gospel Discussion board, and you respond in a way like this:

Everyone who has lived on this planet will recieve some form of salvation, even without believing in Christ. We well all be resurrected and that is part of salvation.

This is a pretty difficult statement to make. being resurrected is not going to happen to those in hell.

Then you can expect further clarification on the matter. Because again, the board you are posting on is about LDS beliefs, not w00dy's beliefs. The random person interested in what LDS believe about resurrection might find this thread via a google search or something, and they won't know you're a former LDS with differing beliefs, unless the next post or two corrects you.

Glad you're enjoying yourself overall, and I hope I've helped clear up what's happening so you won't be frustrated. Absolutely you are welcome here, different beliefs and all. I think if you throw in a few additional "from my former-lds perspective"'s every now and then, you'll be fine.

Edited March 24, 2011 by Loudmouth_Mormon

[alexm8]

I have only been on this forum for a few days but i find that I have been getting very frustrated with the way some people respond to my posts.

When I make a statement about what I believe, I am not in need of being educated on where this idea i am talking about in my faith originated from, especially to the point of telling me I am incorrectly representing what I believe. If a person hundreds of years ago was aloud to interpret the bible to mean something and write what they believed, that does not mean I am bound to that today.

My request to everyone in this forum, is that they would consider accepting somethings people say as what they believe, and not look to tell them how they need to correct what they are saying to better line up with their churches history.

I understand that with the mormon church a lot of teachings are held as churchwide doctrine and it is something the church holds to all together, but I dont have any of my beliefs because I was taught. My beliefs are based off of my own interpretations.

Also, I dont understand why some people have no interest in discussing, and simply prefer to say they are right and anyone who disagrees is wrong. I understand this is an LDS forum but if people of other faiths come here they should find honest discussion where people are willing to listen to other peoples ideas,we all have a different point of view on life and we have so much to learn from eachother. for the most part i find honest discussions, but sometimes I think pride is getting in the way of people considering others Ideas.

Thats it just some thoughts from someone new to the forum. I have really enjoyed being here overall though

I'm sorry, I know you are speaking of me, and I will work harder to be more open to your ideas. The problem is these concepts are generally used to attack the church. I was only trying to shed some light on the debate as to where the common points exist, and where they are coming from. I will be more careful of that in the future.

Although, to clarify, when someone interprets something from the Bible a couple hundred years ago, it generally means they are trying to answer the same questions that you are today. If you hold to their same answers, then you also hold to their interpretation. For example, if you believe in the Trinity, then there is nothing new to interpret from when it was defined 1700 years ago. It does help to understand history.

Edited March 24, 2011 by alexm8

[rameumptom]

I then suggest you begin a statement of belief by saying: I believe this....

Otherwise, If you state it as a fact, then it opens the door for us to share our views on your facts, correcting and advising as we go along. This is, after all, not your own private blog to share your private views in a controlled environment, but is an open forum for all to share their views and comments.

[w00dy931]

I understand what you guys are saying, the purpose of this forum, is for mormons to talk about what they believe. and I respect that. but I believe the emerging generation is a group of people that want to discover things for themselves and not be defined by the past. and i think its time we have our own time of interpretation. Deductive bible study rather then inductive. we as believers need to begin to talk about what we believe and why, not just what we are told to believe.

Also I want to say something else. I did not leave the mormon church on bad terms, I still go occadionally when cousins return from their missions. I simply found that what I believed did not line up with what the mormon church was teaching. and I have no interest in tearing down mormon beliefs, I simply want to share what I believe, and why I believe it. maybe that will help to understand why i would rather not look to why church founders believed it.

[ryanh]

The quickest way to get me to shut my eyes and ears to an opinion is to act as if I have to listen to (and accept) yours, but cannot have hope of the same in return. I'm not sure you really are grasping how hypocritical your demanding acceptance of your opinion is.

[alexm8]

i think its time we have our own time of interpretation. Deductive bible study rather then inductive. we as believers need to begin to talk about what we believe and why, not just what we are told to believe.

I am glad you did not leave the LDS Church on bad terms, and would hope that you have an equally good experience here. However, I too, would have to agree with Ryan here and question your motives.

One does not have "deductive bible study" and come up with phrases like "unmerited favor" through interpretation. If you are here to only preach your opinion while not expecting to learn anything in return, I'm afraid you will find us a poor audience.

[Soulsearcher]

The quickest way to get me to shut my eyes and ears to an opinion is to act as if I have to listen to (and accept) yours, but cannot have hope of the same in return. I'm not sure you really are grasping how hypocritical your demanding acceptance of your opinion is.

Interesting comment

[slamjet]

I understand what you guys are saying, the purpose of this forum, is for mormons to talk about what they believe. and I respect that. but I believe the emerging generation is a group of people that want to discover things for themselves and not be defined by the past. and i think its time we have our own time of interpretation. Deductive bible study rather then inductive. we as believers need to begin to talk about what we believe and why, not just what we are told to believe.

Also I want to say something else. I did not leave the mormon church on bad terms, I still go occadionally when cousins return from their missions. I simply found that what I believed did not line up with what the mormon church was teaching. and I have no interest in tearing down mormon beliefs, I simply want to share what I believe, and why I believe it. maybe that will help to understand why i would rather not look to why church founders believed it.

So:

- You feel the Church teaches old, tired, out of touch doctrine.

- You want to post your believes in an LDS discussion forum and have them taken as a possible alternate view, not because you see the Gospel in a different light, but because you want us "Mormons" to open our minds and dismiss what the founders taught.

- You want to start a movement within the Church using the phrase "question authority."

What you are saying in these two paragraphs you posted is that you are not interested in a discussion, you are interested in showing us the ere of our ways. No matter how innocuous you couch it, that's what you're saying. There are other forums for that. Go there.

[w00dy931]

So:

- You feel the Church teaches old, tired, out of touch doctrine.

- You want to post your believes in an LDS discussion forum and have them taken as a possible alternate view, not because you see the Gospel in a different light, but because you want us "Mormons" to open our minds and dismiss what the founders taught.

- You want to start a movement within the Church using the phrase "question authority."

What you are saying in these two paragraphs you posted is that you are not interested in a discussion, you are interested in showing us the ere of our ways. No matter how innocuous you couch it, that's what you're saying. There are other forums for that. Go there.

Hold on guys, I need to explain something first I guess. and no, I am not saying any of this whatsoever.

to say I am saying the church (I think you are referring to the mormon church) teaches old tired out of touch doctrine would be a ridiculous statement in and of itself, because of modern day revelation. I understand the mormon churches stance on that and so it would make no sense to make that "claim"

The reason I said

but I believe the emerging generation is a group of people that want to discover things for themselves and not be defined by the past. and i think its time we have our own time of interpretation. Deductive bible study rather then inductive. we as believers need to begin to talk about what we believe and why, not just what we are told to believe.{/QUOTE]

Is because I have seen not only in my faith but also in my mormon family members some of us who want to just stand by and allow our religions to tell us what to believe, I was simply trying to talk about my dream in seeing all people of all faiths begin to study things for themselves, not because what they know is wrong, but because they can know it for themselves. I am not tryign to say anyone here is not doing that, its just kind of the big picture of my dream for this generation in general. it has nothing to do with telling any faith they need to come to mine, but telling every faith including my own strive to know why you believe what you believe.

- You want to post your believes in an LDS discussion forum and have them taken as a possible alternate view, not because you see the Gospel in a different light, but because you want us "Mormons" to open our minds and dismiss what the founders taught.

What???

no. I want people to be open minded as I am. you think I got to where I am today because I refused to listen to other peoples point of view? think about it. Im sure everyone here knows how big of a deal it is to step away from the mormon church when you have your entire family so integrated into it. I do believe everyone needs to be open minded yes, but I have no interest in converting anyone. I simply think we all have the right to be heard.

You want to start a movement within the Church using the phrase "question authority."

When I said look to why church founders believed it, I was talking about the catholic/prodestant church, sorry for not clarifying. I was referring to my first post.

One does not have "deductive bible study" and come up with phrases like "unmerited favor" through interpretation. If you are here to only preach your opinion while not expecting to learn anything in return, I'm afraid you will find us a poor audience.

Your right, I have heard this in a teaching recently. But I took it for what they had to teach and tested it, I found it lined up with what I already believed. Im not saying we cannot refer to lessons or things that have been taught by leaders in the past, its really as simple as i want to encourage people to read the bible, and for some the book of mormon, deductively. and yes people are already doing that.

I hope this clears some things up. if you guys still feel the same about what I am saying then I am sorry, this is the best way I can explain my heart here.

[applepansy]

The reason I said

but I believe the emerging generation is a group of people that want to discover things for themselves and not be defined by the past. and i think its time we have our own time of interpretation. Deductive bible study rather then inductive. we as believers need to begin to talk about what we believe and why, not just what we are told to believe.{/QUOTE]

Is because I have seen not only in my faith but also in my mormon family members some of us who want to just stand by and allow our religions to tell us what to believe, I was simply trying to talk about my dream in seeing all people of all faiths begin to study things for themselves, not because what they know is wrong, but because they can know it for themselves. I am not tryign to say anyone here is not doing that, its just kind of the big picture of my dream for this generation in general. it has nothing to do with telling any faith they need to come to mine, but telling every faith including my own strive to know why you believe what you believe.

Thank you for clarifying because in all honesty the bolded is talking about every generation in history not just the current 18 to 29yos!!! I do realize that at age 20 its hard to know that though so after I quit laughing right out loud I didn't post right away.

But.... I wanted to thank you for the clarification. :)

[prisonchaplain]

The reality is that we cannot control how people post, apart from enforcing the Terms of Service agreements. Some people are sensitive. Some are "gun-shy," because of negative exposure to evangelical critics, and to bitter ex-LDS. I have had a few incidents of being taken initially as an enemy. It does no good to argue that I am not one. Rather, I must show my good fruits through my posts. So, my suggestions is that you simply post with authenticity, but politeness. Over time, you will find those willing to engage you reasonably, and others who may not. Interact with those who challenge and stretch you, yet show you respect. The rest you can just smile and say "Have a nice day," to.

[rameumptom]

Woody,

You obvious do not spend time in my arena. I spend lots of time discussing the gospel on many levels with LDS and non-LDS scholars. When church leaders make statements, I seek to gain my own testimony on it.

And I study things on a deeper level. You can see some of my stuff at my blog: joelsmonastery.blogspot.com

That your family just accepts all things without thinking is not the Church's fault. It is their choice. And it is not necessarily a bad thing for many people to learn to trust and follow the prophets and apostles. There are worst people they could try to rely upon. For those who listened to Pres Hinckley in 1998 warn about an upcoming Great Recession and for members to get out of debt, own a modest home, and be thrifty; was to rely upon prophetic revelation. I listened and while this recession has affected us some, we are doing quite well because we are out of debt, have our storage and money in the bank, etc.

Being 20 means you are at the age of wanting to question and challenge everything. We've all done it. That said, some years from now you will probably return to the Church, realizing that it did have a lot of good ideas; and that your questioning and testing life has left you feeling empty inside. Just now, many are realizing how they should have stayed out of debt, bought a modest home, etc., but since they did not want to listen to prophets and good sense, they now are paying the piper. You'll find that their wisdom and inspiration is something that you can trust.

Still, I seek my own testimony of the things they teach. I research the gospel and see what it really says, and not just what someone has interpreted in their own way - even though their interpretation may be good counsel also.

[alexm8]

Well said, rameumptom. I want to add to Woody and others that we are given laws and commandments so we DON'T have to find out everything for ourselves. We CAN learn from others mistakes, problems, pains, guilts, and other messes without having to go through it personally.

What I think we need to each learn individually is WHY we should want to or need to follow. There are consequences for every choice we make, either good or bad. Some decisions are simple, like what clothes to wear or what to eat. There are consequences to that like, "She looks like a slut in that", "He looks pretty handsome in that", or "I'm gonna get fat from eating that". These consequences don't really affect our lives much in the long run or our eternal salvation, but there are some decisions that do.

Examples are the decision to have sex outside of marriage and the emotional problems it can cause, the decision to drink and become an alcoholic, the decision to steal rather than get an education and provide a living, or the decision to have children and raise them with good moral standards. Major decisions can cause heartache, or they can create joy. Jesus says, "For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light", and it leads to joy and happiness. The other yoke is heavy, indeed.

There is not one thing that the LDS Church teaches that increases one's burden. Yes, they may ask difficult things from us, but from my experience the alternative consequences are much heavier. Once someone learns that, they no longer have to question LDS authority. This single concept is what your parents and other family members may have learned. And as for me and my house, we will serve the Lord.

[curiousheathen]

I have only been on this forum for a few days but i find that I have been getting very frustrated with the way some people respond to my posts.

When I make a statement about what I believe, I am not in need of being educated on where this idea i am talking about in my faith originated from, especially to the point of telling me I am incorrectly representing what I believe. If a person hundreds of years ago was aloud to interpret the bible to mean something and write what they believed, that does not mean I am bound to that today.

My request to everyone in this forum, is that they would consider accepting somethings people say as what they believe, and not look to tell them how they need to correct what they are saying to better line up with their churches history.

I understand that with the mormon church a lot of teachings are held as churchwide doctrine and it is something the church holds to all together, but I dont have any of my beliefs because I was taught. My beliefs are based off of my own interpretations.

Also, I dont understand why some people have no interest in discussing, and simply prefer to say they are right and anyone who disagrees is wrong. I understand this is an LDS forum but if people of other faiths come here they should find honest discussion where people are willing to listen to other peoples ideas,we all have a different point of view on life and we have so much to learn from eachother. for the most part i find honest discussions, but sometimes I think pride is getting in the way of people considering others Ideas.

Thats it just some thoughts from someone new to the forum. I have really enjoyed being here overall though

I don't post very often, but I thought I'd let you know I feel the same way most of the time. People here, and I imagine on most online religious discussion forums, tend to be very defensive or dismissive. Most of the time I feel like no one wants to take questions seriously, and just wants to assume the person is a troll, because jerks like that come to places like this all the time. The best thing I've found is to be respectful and polite so they know you aren't a troll, and eventually people start to come around. Just my two cents.

[OneEternalSonata]

A little mercy goes a long way. Its easier to point out mistakes or perceived errors of other people than it is to point out our own, in my experience. If someone is wronged and then they seek retribution, in my opinion they are committing a wrong. Further, I believe the sacrifice of Jesus paid for wrongs suffered, and by virtue of the Atonement, He makes recompense in His time. The Savior would have love abound, so I pray that all of us will allow our hearts to be softened by the Lord, for we all offend and are offended.

[jaiotu]

w00dy931,

Somewhere on the road to the 21st Century, the term "tolerance" underwent a radical redefinition by post-modernism.

True tolerance is not agreeing that everyone's opinions are equally right and are therefore above criticism. For instance, I "tolerate" my wife eating in bed even though it drives me crazy. I am tolerated on this discussion board even though I openly disagree with Mormon theology and express a different view. I tolerate you even though I think it is absolutely crazy to assume that each new generation of Christians has the right to radically redefine their beliefs based on a personal interpretation of Scripture when the Apostle Peter clearly stated that no scripture is open to private interpretation.

Likewise, when I read in the Bible that, "...a time is coming when all who are in their graves will hear his voice and come out—those who have done what is good will rise to live, and those who have done what is evil will rise to be condemned." - John 5:28-29 - I tolerate the fact that you contradict the explicit teaching of Scripture even though I think your contradiction arises from a lack of diligent study of God's word.

The modern notion of tolerance promotes a kind of pluralism where everyone's beliefs should be considered equally correct. This is a logical fallacy. The typical trinitarian concept of God and the typical LDS concept of God are mutually exclusive of each other. They can both be wrong, but they can't both be right at the same time. The key to true tolerance is recognizing the difference, not sweeping it under the rug. That's not being faithful to either perspective. Tolerance is being able to vocally debate the differences without calling for an executioner.

Tolerance does not mean abandoning central tenants of my faith in order to nurture the feeling of those who don't hold to those beliefs.

With that,

Peace and bless.

[jlf9999]

I don't read every response so if someone has said what I say then superior minds think alike.

It is difficult to read what someone has written and apply inflection or voice to it. But if it was said as one friend talking to another in person it would sound better and friendlier. Please forgive us if discussion comes across as unfriendly. I assure you it likely is not. We just get into it sometimes without thinking in the polite way we we would if we were in person. Women are much better at it than men. Men as you know communicate differently. We pass on information while women tend to make friends. They really are the superior sex.

Edited April 7, 2011 by jlf9999

[Backroads]

My thoughts:

It doesn't help when people come here and become defensive and sensitive that LDS people DO believe the way they do. I think the majority of people here don't want anyone to feel bad, or shove beliefs down anyone's throat.

Just because someone is respectfully explaining why they believe the way they do (including being LDS) does not mean they hate you.

Frankly, I feel rather insulted that it was suggested that every LDS person on here attacks others' beliefs. In fact, I would like to see some examples of this.

[RipplecutBuddha]

I think it comes down to the reality that people don't like to be wrong.

Each of us, regardless of our religious focus (or lack thereof) have our own unique set of accepted religious truths. Even within a single religion differences exist, as many posts here demonstrate clearly regarding the LDS Church.

What we all need to remember is that we, as mortal men and women, make mistakes. It's a gift God has given us. Because he has given us the ability to choose for ourselves, he has given us the ability to be wrong. We don't like to think about it, but it is important.

We may think someone who disagrees with us is wrong, but then we could be the ones in error and not realize it. This is why we need to keep God active in our pursuit of truth in this life. He will always teach us truth, and that is something every one of us can count on without doubt or fear.