divorce

[jbush]

I need some advice. I was born and raised in the church, but when I was in high school, I fell in love with a non-member. I told him I would not marry outside of the temple and he took the lessons and was baptized. However,we ended up getting pregnant our senior year and had our son at 18. He was unfaithful to me throughout our dating years, but I still married him thinking he would change and that we would get back into the church and get sealed in the temple. Over the years, we have gone in and out of being active and eventually stopped going altogether. We were living a party life style. Six years ago, he had an affair with my best friend, and I forgave him.

About a year ago, our 13 year old daughter became good friends with a bishop's daughter and began going to church and mutual with her. She was such a great example to me that I have become active and have confessed some things to my bishop. I was disfellowshipped, but will receive full membership in a few months. I have been going to all my church meetings, reading my scriptures, praying, paying tithing, etc... My husband has been attending sacrament meeting, but he does not want to live the gospel fully. He thinks I should compromise and he believes it's ok to ride 4 wheelers on Sunday and drink beer with his friends. He thinks I'm being unfair to expect him to change now after all these years.

A couple of months ago, I was checking our phone records (I do this because I don't trust him) and I saw that he's been texting a girl whom he had cheated on me with right before we were married. So I moved in with my sister. I'm planning on filing for divorce, but he is telling me how he can't live without me and even my parents are saying that I shouldn't leave because of our daughter. They defend him by saying he wasn't raised the same way I was and that I need to be patient with him. Our bishop recommended marriage counseling, but he won't go. I have prayed about this and I feel that divorce is the answer. Any thoughts on what I should do?

[NeuroTypical]

I saw that he's been texting a girl whom he had cheated on me with right before we were married. So I moved in with my sister. I'm planning on filing for divorce, but he is telling me how he can't live without me and even my parents are saying that I shouldn't leave because of our daughter. They defend him by saying he wasn't raised the same way I was and that I need to be patient with him. Our bishop recommended marriage counseling, but he won't go. I have prayed about this and I feel that divorce is the answer. Any thoughts on what I should do?

Yeah, the patience and defending stuff is nonsense, but there are real considerations here. Kids in single parent situations are more likely to live in poverty, get involved in crime, go to prison, and have children out of wedlock than kids living in a home with both a mother and a father. However, if your husband is repeatedly cheating on you, he's not really a husband. He's an immature child in an adult's body. What can we say? You created a situation with no good answers for your kid. You can expect her to have all sorts of issues with dating stability and whatnot because of who her mom picked, and who her dad is.

Beer drinking and riding ATV's on Sunday you need to just stop talking about. You gave up all right to complain about that, when you took him into your bed and made a child with him. And you reinforced your lack of right to complain about it when you married him. Marital infidelity is one thing. Making kids with and marrying someone, and then grousing about who that person is, is not valid. Knock it off.

No easy answers for you. If you think God is suggesting a course of action, go with that. If you pick divorce, please seriously consider focusing on raising your kid, instead of finding some other jerk to share your bed. A sucessful 2nd marriage is a very rare thing, most of them end in divorce, which is still more crap your daughter doesn't need in her life.

[Suzie]

He thinks I'm being unfair to expect him to change now after all these years.

Even though I cannot excuse his behavior, I understand where he is coming from. A friend of mine (like you) was born and raised in the Church and also like you, messed around with a guy, drank, party around and got pregnant when she was a teen. The guy in the picture is her present husband and now that she is active, she wants to change everything around their lifestyle. The guy is angry, after all when he met her she was NOT active and didn't do any of these things, it is almost like he is now married to someone else.

Of course, in your case this doesn't justify at all the cheating however you knew beforehand the kind of man he was (it was NOT a surprise to you was it?). You made a child with him at 18 even though he constantly cheated on you during the relationship, THEN decided to get married despite these HUGE red flags, he had an affair with your best friend while married to you and you decided to forgive him.

Divorce may be the answer but I hope (for your sake and your kid) that next time (if there is a next time) you won't pick a loser (unfortunately, it tends to happen). You deserve better.

I wish you all the best and I will "steal" LM post when he said:

If you pick divorce, please seriously consider focusing on raising your kid, instead of finding some other jerk to share your bed.

Edited April 10, 2011 by Suzie

[Suzie]

wow Loudmouth, that was really really harsh ..

I didn't find his post harsh at all but realistic.

[Suzie]

despite huge red flags, my husband married me - I believe people can change (hence my name) ... we've been married 12 years now, 3 kids, normal suburbanites with minivan etc. etc. - the "perfect" molly mormon temple going FHE holding scripture reading happy fam - perhaps some here feel they are perfect, and that they would only marry another person who was perfect.... I'm not perfect, neither is my husband, but we do not let our past define who we are, and what we can become.

Changed, every situation is different however I think red flags shouldn't be ignored, just because it worked out in your case doesn't mean it works in every single case. In this particular scenario, we seem to be discussing a serial cheater (he cheated on her while they were single and while they were married and still does...). For me (and it's entirely my opinion) it is very foolish and unwise to decide to get married someone with these red flags. Would you counsel someone to get married despite the fact that the other person is cheating on them? I am seriously asking.

you don't think someone changing is realistic? People can and do change... reality does not have to be harsh, there is hope, people can and people do turn their lives around - for real - people really can turn their lives around - but that change has to come from within, not through a spouse nagging you into it.... this is an LDS site, one for hope, one about change...

My "realistic" comment was about LoudMouth statement which you found to be harsh. I didn't find it to be harsh at all but very realistic.

[Soulsearcher]

While I'm not really defending the man, I'm not sure serial cheater is a proper term. He was unfaithful before marriage, and so far all that's been said about his conduct during the marriage is texts between an old flame and one affair. We can assume there was more than the texts or he carried on his behavior after marriage, but assumption is all it is because we haven't been given any facts that say anything more.

Edited April 10, 2011 by Soulsearcher

[Suzie]

He was unfaithful before marriage, and so far all that's been said about his conduct during the marriage is texts between an old flame. We can assume there was more than the texts or he carried on his behavior after marriage, but assumption is all it is because we haven't been given any facts that say anything more.

Based on how the following is worded, it is my understanding that it happened when they were already married. He has been cheating while they were dating AND after they have been married, you may not want to call it serial cheating, that's exactly what it is to me.

but I still married him thinking he would change and that we would get back into the church and get sealed in the temple. Over the years, we have gone in and out of being active and eventually stopped going altogether. We were living a party life style. Six years ago, he had an affair with my best friend, and I forgave him

[Soulsearcher]

Based on how the following is worded, it is my understanding that it happened when they were already married. He has been cheating while they were dating AND after they have been married, you may not want to call it serial cheating, that's exactly what it is to me.

I edited my post to reflect the affair during the marriage, but she hasn't stated how many time before the marriage and so far only one proven during the marriage. 2 or 3 wouldn't qualify as serial, unless we count everyone who's lied 2 or 3 times as a serial liar. Serial usually refers to a regular habit, I'm not sure it's been presented as regularly occurring behavior so much as a behavior that has been repeated at irregular occasional intervals.

[Suzie]

this is not a thread about someone contemplating marriage... it is a thread about someone who already got married - the past is what it is, it can be a thread about how to move up and on, or it can be a thread about how to get stuck in a rut - telling her she'll just go marry another loser is not a message of hope, and will not help anyone... We are all God's children, I don't think there are any losers - the point is how to progress, and everyone can progress no matter where they started, or what is in their past - Satan's message is one of despair/no hope/no change... God's message is one of change - that the future is what you make of it... there are some who believe that God's message of hope/repentance/eternal progression isn't "real" isn't possible... then there are others like me who believe in hope/change for everyone, that it is very real, and very possible - not just in theory, but in practice - anyone can do what I have done, everyone can change, everyone can progress - the plan of salvation is real - not a fairy tale - it is real.

Changed, I know this topic touches you personally. I actually agree with most of the things you are saying however don't you believe in being your brother's keeper? Warning someone so they don't commit the same mistake again (and yes, it happens in situations like this one) isn't a warning of judgment or holy than thou attitude (it seems that's the way you are perceiving it to be). Can people change? Sure they can. Happens in all cases? Nope, unless the person is truly committed to change. Are we supposed to ignore the red flags? I don't think so.

I cannot suggest this lady to stay forever in this marriage as long as there is "hope" for the husband to change and stop cheating on her, unless she enjoys pain which I don't think she does.

For a marriage to work, BOTH persons need to work out their issues. It seems like she worked on hers but he is UNWILLING (based on her post and her side of the story) to go counseling. What else do you suggest for her to do? To continue staying in this marriage despite the pain and humiliation that all this is causing to her and her child when he is UNWILLING to seek change?

Let's be realistic for a second.

[Suzie]

I edited my post to reflect the affair during the marriage, but she hasn't stated how many time before the marriage and so far only one proven during the marriage. 2 or 3 wouldn't qualify as serial, unless we count everyone who's lied 2 or 3 times as a serial liar. Serial usually refers to a regular habit, I'm not sure it's been presented as regularly occurring behavior so much as a behavior that has been repeated at irregular occasional intervals.

Soul, we can become all technical if you want (on semantics) :) but it doesn't change the facts really (at least for me). The guy has cheated at least 3 proven times. Whether he cheated on 4 or 5 at this time, doesn't make his case any better or worse.

[Soulsearcher]

Soul, we can become all technical if you want (on semantics) :) but it doesn't change the facts really (at least for me). The guy has cheated at least 3 proven times. Whether he cheated on 4 or 5 at this time, doesn't make his case any better or worse.

I just have an issue with labels that aren't correct. I'm not justifying the behavior in the least, but if you are going to paint someone with a label then make sure you use the proper one. people outside a situation like to apply labels and judgments but it's not always their place, nor are they using proper labels. Call the guy a cheater because that's proven, call him a serial cheater and I'll object because there is no such proof for such a term.

[Suzie]

I just have an issue with labels that aren't correct. I'm not justifying the behavior in the least, but if you are going to paint someone with a label then make sure you use the proper one. people outside a situation like to apply labels and judgments but it's not always their place, nor are they using proper labels. Call the guy a cheater because that's proven, call him a serial cheater and I'll object because there is no such proof for such a term.

Your opinion, I respect it.

[Suzie]

I did not suggest that she stay in the marriage, I suggested that:

1st post - she not try to be anyone's savior (that only Jesus can save anyone) and that she let go of trying to change another person, because change can only come from within

I then suggested that she tell her husband where she wants to go, and then let him make the decision if he wants to progress or not

yes, I think we are on the same page except for the

(Old Testament | Proverbs 26:11)

11 As a dog returneth to his vomit, so a fool returneth to his folly.

this is no fool, this is someone who is making changes, going to church - whose daughter has been a wonderful example - this is someone who wants more out of life, and is taking steps to get more, and we should all encourage her in that endeavor, and not label her as a dog who will merely return to it's vomit

Changed, I am curious. What would you suggest if he is unwilling to go counseling? What's the next step in your opinion?

About the verse, I don't think anyone said she WILL end up with another guy like that (the possibility always exist) but we did warn her about it not only for her sake but there is a child in the middle. I really don't see anything wrong with that however I appreciate your view and input, really. :)

[jbush]

Thank you all for your advice and insights. I realize that I made a HUGE mistake 1st by having premarital sex which led to pregnancy, 2nd by marrying a man I knew would not be faithful to me and 3rd by falling away from the church and compromising my standards. I take full responsibility for this. I have repented and I'm trying to get my life back on the right path. He IS a serial cheater both before and after we were married. I convinced myself that once we were married, he would stop. The affair he had with my best friend went on for over a year and took him 2 years to come clean and only because she finally admitted it to me. That affair was 6 years ago and while talking to our bishop, he said it's been 2 years since he was unfaithful so I know there have been others since that one. He tells me he's changed and that he only wants me but I don't believe him since he's said this numerous times before. Like I said, I have prayed alot about what I should do and I think in order for me to be the person I want to be, I need to start over without him. I will take care of my daughter and try to be a good example to her.

[Suzie]

He IS a serial cheater both before and after we were married.

Thank you for confirming this.

Like I said, I have prayed alot about what I should do and I think in order for me to be the person I want to be, I need to start over without him. I will take care of my daughter and try to be a good example to her.

Once you received confirmation, that's all it matters. I wish you and your daughter all the best. :)

[jbush]

Thank you so much, Changed. That letter was just what I needed. It made me cry, but also helped me understand that I can be better. I know God has more in store for me. I appreciate all your encouraging words.

[Just_A_Guy]

jbush, since you seem resolved on divorce, may I offer one suggestion as someone who does divorce law in Utah?

LDS women have this culture of "niceness", and nobody wants to be the crazy ex-wife from Hades. But because of this, Mormon women tend to get steamrolled in divorces.

You don't need to be unnecessarily confrontational; but do talk to a lawyer and make sure you know what your legal rights are before you sign anything. And don't be afraid to stick up for yourself a little.

[jbush]

I am lucky to have a wonderful relief society president and visiting teachers. I haven't had any LDS friends in a very long time, and I'm grateful for the love and support I receive from these sisters. I draw strength from them. Thank you for your support and kind words, as well. You have really helped me, which is why I started this thread. I know I have a long, hard road ahead of me, but I also know that with the Lord's help, I will make it through, and I will be a better, stronger person because of it.

[Gatekeeper]

He was unfaithful to me throughout our dating years, but I still married him thinking he would change and that we would get back into the church and get sealed in the temple.

I have known so many women like you. Marry a drunk, drug addict, cheater, and my love will change him. Obviously, not so. Not ever. So sad. Live and learn. No one has to tell you what to do. You know the routine by now. By the way, none of the women I knew ever stayed married. They tried. But life with the "low-down" was as an inferno. One lady still sneaks over to her ex's home at night and leaves a bag of dog chow and a bowl at his door steps. Pitiful! And for what? Get over already. See what I mean?

For your kids' sake, go figure.

[Guest jackymark001]

Any husband may, either in a petition for dissolution of marriage or for judicial separation only, claim damages from any person on the ground of his having committed adultery with the wife of such petitioner.

Such petition shall be served on the alleged adulterer and the wife, unless the Court dispenses with such service, or directs some other service to be substituted.

The damages to be recovered on any such petition shall be ascertained by the said Court, although the respondents or either of them may not appear.