Church Education System (CES): a paid clergy?

[Guest tbaird22]

I suppose im just worried about losing my testimony. That s the only thing really keeping me back since i've lost it before.I could live on low pay, my father does extremely well but is always working and I know its for us, his family, still I don't want to be like that.

[NeuroTypical]

If you know what you believe, and why you believe it - nothing you read about the more 'interesting' parts of our history and the players in it, will affect your testimony.

If, however, your testimony includes a whole bunch of "It's just what I was always raised with", then yes - expect to be challenged and learn all sorts of things that will make a difference with your testimony. Some folks found the experience a testimony growing and deepening experience. Others just can't come to grips when discovering their assumptions about how it was, conflicts with what actually was.

It was pretty clear for me. Did my testimony hinge on the divinity and reality of Jesus Christ, or did it hinge on [insert church criticism based on historical fact] not being possible?

LM

[Dravin]

About having a career in CES I hear that a lot of people who leave the CES also leave the church because they saw something behind the scene.

People have addressed the doctrinal angle, but there is another way to take seeing something behind the scenes. Because I could see how being unfairly treated by your employer the Church could be hard to separate from the Church itself with negativity over one running into the other. Employees for the Church aren't angels so at some point you will be treated unfairly, or at least feel you are treated unfairly.

Personally that would be my worry, not learning some tidbit about Church history in the course of my job, but having a pointed haired boss and having my disaffection with my employer rub off onto my feelings about the Church. Particularly if I had a problem where I tried to go up the chain of command and got shot down.

[prisonchaplain]

I think the biggest factor (legally) that makes someone clergy is the ability to "take confession and forgive".

This might not be enough of a factor, since most Protestant clergy do not take confessions or pronounce forgiveness, based upon their authority.

[bytor2112]

I think the biggest factor (legally) that makes someone clergy is the ability to "take confession and forgive".

CES (church educational system) leaders at any level are not allowed to take confession or guide someone through the repentance process. They are not clergy but exactly what the title of the program suggests educational.

Of course forgivness ultimately is granted by the Father....not the clergy (Bishop/SP)

[Gwen]

This might not be enough of a factor, since most Protestant clergy do not take confessions or pronounce forgiveness, based upon their authority.

learn something new every day. the role the clergy play in the church is still equivalent to the role of other preachers/bishops/etc. just because doctrinally you don't take confession doesn't mean you aren't equal positions in a religious structure. so the same standard would apply.

even though you don't doctrinally take confession if someone were to confess to you seeking advise as their religious leader are you protected by the same laws (clergy confidentiality) as others?

Of course forgivness ultimately is granted by the Father....not the clergy (Bishop/SP)

why it was in quotes. i know what we teach but from a legal standpoint the government doesn't care where we believe the forgiveness comes from. it's that it's part of our religion that we need to confess to someone that we believe has some called upon authority. we have the right to confess without being worried about legal repercussions. that would interfere with the freedom of religion. of course there are exceptions made for serious things (someone is in danger, confession of a murder, etc).

if you confess to ces leaders you technically have no expectation of privacy. though i would hope any such leaders would use some discretion in how they approach the situation.

[mightynancy]

I want to know more about the "perks." What on earth do you mean, Gwen?

[Dravin]

I want to know more about the "perks." What on earth do you mean, Gwen?

• 5% Tithing.
• Relaxation of the Word of Wisdom to not include coffee and tea.
• One annual indulgence.
• Unlimited access to the Bishop's storehouse.

Okay... everyone knows I'm joking right... right?

[Gwen]

the ones i have known have had cars provided for them (and all that comes with car ownership), auto insurance (part of car ownership), way better health care than a "regular" job would provide, kids college paid for, etc. all things i have to worry about. if those things were provided by our employer i could live on a lot less too.

i'm not necessarily saying it's wrong just that it's part of the job, just that it's not balanced to say "oh they don't make that much". if you count the amt spent on those other things as part of their income it jumps up a bit.

i will admit that my knowledge on the subject is limited to the ones i've met (compared to someone that lives in an lds saturated area it's not many) and the amt of information i got from them.

[pam]

the ones i have known have had cars provided for them (and all that comes with car ownership), auto insurance (part of car ownership), way better health care than a "regular" job would provide, kids college paid for, etc. all things i have to worry about. if those things were provided by our employer i could live on a lot less too.

i'm not necessarily saying it's wrong just that it's part of the job, just that it's not balanced to say "oh they don't make that much". if you count the amt spent on those other things as part of their income it jumps up a bit.

i will admit that my knowledge on the subject is limited to the ones i've met (compared to someone that lives in an lds saturated area it's not many) and the amt of information i got from them.

None of the people that I know that work for the CES have ever had a car provided for them.

One good thing that the church does for CES employees is if they transfer someone to another area..if they can't sell their house before their move, the Church will purchase it and sell it afterwards. That way they aren't in a financial bind due to their move.

Edited April 13, 2011 by pam

[HEthePrimate]

Somebody may have said this already, but CES personnel do not do various things that clergy normally do. For example, they do not lead worship services, perform communion/sacrament, marry people, bury people, baptize people, etc. They teach. Now, our local institute director was called to be a bishop, but he doesn't get paid for anything he does as a bishop.

[Guest tbaird22]

Thanks everyone. Clearly, CES is different than a clergy since they have no actual calling or ranking in the church. All they do is teach about the church. Thanks for helping me learn that! and thanks for that awesome site pam!