Who's Qualified To Explain Lds Teachings To Nonmembers?

[prisonchaplain]

First, I'll site the obvious answers:

1. Call the missionaries

2. lds.org or mormon.org

Now, here's my inquiry. If your friends/acquaintences are curious about your faith how far can you instruct before you feel the need to refer?

I note the disclaimers here to non-LDS to go to the official sites for "official" doctrinal positions, and can understand that. Other lds sites have similar disclaimers about posters not representing official doctrine. However, imho, the line at which the curious are referred to "official sources" seems to come much quicker than say with my church or the Baptists I know.

Other questions along a similar line: Can returned missionaries instruct their friends to much greater lengths than those who have not served, or do they lose their authority to do so once they're done? Do holders of the priesthoods--particular the Melchezidek (sp?)--have more authority to explain than those of the Aaronic, or of females, who hold neither?

Why I ask: As I've made inquiries and enjoyed good discussions here and at another site, I've thought that certain posters were very well versed in the faith, and that I might learn as much or more from them as I would from young missionaries who've received 3 weeks or so of formal training. By way of comparison, as a trained minister, I see my role, not as a source of truth that the congregation is to bring investigators to, but rather as a trainer of evangelists, equipping God's people to represent Christ themselves. I might be an added resource, but believe that any mature believer in my church should be able to explain conversion, and the fundamental beliefs of our movement.

THOUGHTS?

[miztrniceguy]

First, I'll site the obvious answers:

1. Call the missionaries

2. lds.org or mormon.org

Now, here's my inquiry. If your friends/acquaintences are curious about your faith how far can you instruct before you feel the need to refer?

I note the disclaimers here to non-LDS to go to the official sites for "official" doctrinal positions, and can understand that. Other lds sites have similar disclaimers about posters not representing official doctrine. However, imho, the line at which the curious are referred to "official sources" seems to come much quicker than say with my church or the Baptists I know.

Other questions along a similar line: Can returned missionaries instruct their friends to much greater lengths than those who have not served, or do they lose their authority to do so once they're done? Do holders of the priesthoods--particular the Melchezidek (sp?)--have more authority to explain than those of the Aaronic, or of females, who hold neither?

Why I ask: As I've made inquiries and enjoyed good discussions here and at another site, I've thought that certain posters were very well versed in the faith, and that I might learn as much or more from them as I would from young missionaries who've received 3 weeks or so of formal training. By way of comparison, as a trained minister, I see my role, not as a source of truth that the congregation is to bring investigators to, but rather as a trainer of evangelists, equipping God's people to represent Christ themselves. I might be an added resource, but believe that any mature believer in my church should be able to explain conversion, and the fundamental beliefs of our movement.

THOUGHTS?

i think it is an individuals decision based on their comfort level and confidence in their own knowledge.

[Jason]

I believe those who are qualified are those who throughly understand it.

For example, I feel more than qualified to explain every fascet of Mormonism to anyone who asks. I know what they teach, what they practice, and why. But more than "official sources" I can provide investigators insight into issues and problems that affect the church where others would prefer to remain silent.

[Dror]

Well, the Church leaders encourage us to refer them to the missionaries--and to be there with them when they see the missionaries. Some people may not want to meet with the missionaries, and in those cases, the Church member would continue talking with their friends as long as the friends are interested in knowing more. I think most members who have attended church for a number of years probably have a good enough understanding of the Church to teach nonmembers the basics, and then some. Hopefully, if they don't know the answer to someone's question, they would be humble to consult someone else for an answer rather than making something up!

The leaders encourage us to invite friends to church activities, even if it's just homemaking meeting or basketball, or a dance, potluck, or whatever. Then the nonmember could become acquainted with other members, and thus have more sources of information.

They have that saying, "Every member a missionary!", so I think they expect us all to share with others, but the more knowledge we get, the better (obviously).

[Traveler]

Well, the Church leaders encourage us to refer them to the missionaries--and to be there with them when they see the missionaries. Some people may not want to meet with the missionaries, and in those cases, the Church member would continue talking with their friends as long as the friends are interested in knowing more. I think most members who have attended church for a number of years probably have a good enough understanding of the Church to teach nonmembers the basics, and then some. Hopefully, if they don't know the answer to someone's question, they would be humble to consult someone else for an answer rather than making something up!

The leaders encourage us to invite friends to church activities, even if it's just homemaking meeting or basketball, or a dance, potluck, or whatever. Then the nonmember could become acquainted with other members, and thus have more sources of information.

They have that saying, "Every member a missionary!", so I think they expect us all to share with others, but the more knowledge we get, the better (obviously).

For me I perfer a common someone that lives what they preach. Not someone that makes a living at it or that makes a public show of it. I would not talk to any non-whatever to find out about what they cannot live. My father once told me if you want to learn about anything talk to those that are the very best at doing it. If you want to learn math would you talk to somone that does not believe in math or that has failled in their attempts to do math? I perfer to talk to someone that cares more about their own belief than than they do about what is wrong in others. I am most concerned about those that wish to speak against any idea more than they want to speak for ideas they like. - My biggest problem with most politicians.

If you want to learn about the Church of Jesus Christ of LDS - meet someone in your area. Attend a meeting. Try a family home evening - which is a good thing even if you are not a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of LDS. Bottom line, when I learn of others I want to be with them - It is far more important to me to learn how they live their beliefs than what is their doctrine. If their lives are enriched then I am interested in a doctrine that brings such things into their life.

The Traveler

[Guest MrsS]

First, I'll site the obvious answers:

1. Call the missionaries

2. lds.org or mormon.org

I would call the missionaries when some one I know has said: I am interested in your Church, in possibly becoming a member. What steps do I take. That is when the Missionaries are called. Not when someone asks me ~ why don't you baptise babies, or why do you baptise your dead ancestors? I explain to them the best that I can, and if they still don't understand THEN I refer them to lds.org or mormon.org.

It has been my understanding that the Missionaries "job", is to introduce the Gospel to investigators. They are to begin the nurturing of that seed. They bring them to Baptism, then the Ward takes over in the freindshipping and in the further teaching of the Gospel Doctrine. It is not the Missionaries "job" to answer the 'Deep Doctrine' questions.

Example: The Missionaries were tracting in my neighborhood ~ my neighbor let them in, listened to them, then invited them back.

He told me that he was never going to become a Mormon, but it had been years since he had been able to discuss the scriptures and talk about them. For 2 years, he had the Missionaries visiting him.

I would feed the Missionaries and have this gentleman over for dinner. It was then that I noticed that he was toying with them. He was asking questions that the Missionaries did not know and when they offered to set up appointments with the Mission Leader or with the Bishop, this gentleman would play it down and say ~ if you can't answer me than, that is okay, I understand, that must be something that only the Special Members can know about.

Then this Gentleman took to asking me questions. He wanted me to get the answers from the Missionaries. Well I went to my Bishop with the questions. My Bishop told me that if this guy was really interested in the Church he would come to church on Sundays, he would willingly make and keep the appointments with the Mission Leader and with him. But it sounded to him as though all this gentleman wanted was to debate. We, the LDS Church, are not in the Debate business.

I invited the Bishop, his wife, the Mission Leader and his wife and my neighbor for dinner. Not once did my neighbor ask his questions. So I did, and I let it be known that these were his questions. The Bishop answered him using the Standard Works, the Mission Leader answered him using the Standard Works. It was then that it was revealed to me that my neighbor was a "Professional" Investigator.

He didn't want to talk to anyone who was well versed in the Latter-day Saint Church Doctrine or in the Gospel Doctrine. He was having too much fun baiting the missionaries, or as he called it Debating. In his discussions with the Missionaries, he was feeling superior, because they could not answer him. What he was asking was far beyond what their mission calling was.

Every conversation with him turned into a battle. I refused to defend the LDS Church ~ It needs no defense ~ and quite frankly I felt like I was battling Satan personified. And, Yes this man was a christian. He went to his Christian Church every Sunday.

The reason I send people to lds.org is because it is the Official LDS Church site. IF these people are truly interested in the church, then they will find their answers there. If they are curious, they will find their answers there.

I know I do not have all the answers ~ no one does really. Sorry Jason, but your knowledge is really tainted by your anti attitude. If you want to know what makes a clock tick, why would you go to a butcher ?

Whoa PC, what is this about females not holding the priesthood having anything to do with knowledge? We have plenty of Sister Missionaries, and there are plenty of Females in the Church who are very knowledgable, perhaps more so than some Priesthood holders. Holding the Priesthood does not automatically make you knowledgable.

It is the Females who have kept the Relief Society going strong for over 100+ years. It is the Females who started the Primary and built it to the magnificent program that it is today. Same for the Young Women/Mutual. 90% of the Priesthood holders in the entire LDS Church state that if it weren't for the women: their mothers, wives, sisters, aunts and grandmothers, not much in the Church would get done.

As for Scriptural knowledge, I know lots of woman who can run circles around the Missionaries, and Returned Missionaries and the Bishops and Stake Presidents. Read any Ensign, the women give talks at Conference too ~ they also are the mouth pieces of God.

<<<<Rant Off>>>>

[LionHeart]

I believe those who are qualified are those who throughly understand it.

For example, I feel more than qualified to explain every fascet of Mormonism to anyone who asks. I know what they teach, what they practice, and why. But more than "official sources" I can provide investigators insight into issues and problems that affect the church where others would prefer to remain silent.

I would say I'm in same boat as Jason on this one.

As for the Melchizedek priesthood having more authority to teach than the Aaronic priesthood, they both have the same authority to teach, however it is the higher priesthood that does the most of it. Before a man goes on a mission, he is ordained an elder, which is an office in the Melchizedek priesthood.

The difference between a priesthood holder and a non priesthood holder teaching is this: The priesthood holder has the authority to represent Christ. Therefore, his works are acknowledged and accepted by Him. The non-priesthood holder is still allowed to teach, but he/she does not have the sanctions of God in their works. This is why they refer people to elders.

[Winnie G]

Any church member can teach but it is can only be taken just so far and then they must be passed off to the missionaries. My husband was in the ward mission leadership for some time. These youth are taught and trained for just this purpose. They bring with them the spirit that teaching the gospel full time can only bring. They touch the lives of others with that stewardship. We have taught with these young people and yes, we bring our own testimony with us but too see them teach with the spirit Wow that is why the missionary program works as well as it does.

The only draw back are those who wish to learn about the gospel but turn away the young missionary’s thinking that could not bring what they feel is an understanding that age could only bring.

I have a friend who will not be taught by the elders in our aria for such a reason but yet will spend hours being taught by us.

For that reason I see him at a cross road and he has not gone on any further.

Its like being what salesmen call a closer. These missionary know when to close the deal LOL LOL.

They can challenge them to baptism like no others.

We have done this with our friend and even talked about the blessing of being sealed in the Temple. He wants that but seems to fall short upon commitment. So the invitation is there but from now on we will strongly suggest the Closer. LOL

[Guest Monica]

The missionaries are great for teaching.

[Jason]

If you want to learn math would you talk to somone that does not believe in math or that has failled in their attempts to do math?

I know I do not have all the answers ~ no one does really. Sorry Jason, but your knowledge is really tainted by your anti attitude. If you want to know what makes a clock tick, why would you go to a butcher ?

Neither of these examples properly explain my situation.

To begin with, Traveler's attempt to discredit me (or those like me) fails entirely. I am not a disbeliever in math, nor am I a failed math student. Rather I am a retired Math professor who has found other things to do. (And I might add that using a scientific analogy to justify a non-scientific belief system is outrageous.)

MrsS' poor analogy fails because I am not the butcher, but I am more like a retired Master Clock Maker who after 30 years ceased making clocks.

Would anyone feel uncomfortable asking a former Math professor, or former Clock maker about math or making clocks?

Hardly.

And I actually laughed out loud when MrsS claimed my "knowledge is tainted". What she actually means to say is that I wouldn't be one-sided in my teaching approach of Mormonism. And I would ask her, Since when does a good teacher only offer one way of looking at things?

[CaptainTux]

I have not seen a missionary at my door in about 3 years. I have asked for a new copy of the Book of Mormon and 2 videos about the time I joined the forums.

Is this just a fallout in my area, shortage of missionaries in my area, or should I check my doormat for dust?

[Guest MrsS]

I have not seen a missionary at my door in about 3 years. I have asked for a new copy of the Book of Mormon and 2 videos about the time I joined the forums.

Is this just a fallout in my area, shortage of missionaries in my area, or should I check my doormat for dust?

When was the last time you called to have the missionaries come to your door?

[CaptainTux]

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I have not seen a missionary at my door in about 3 years. I have asked for a new copy of the Book of Mormon and 2 videos about the time I joined the forums.

Is this just a fallout in my area, shortage of missionaries in my area, or should I check my doormat for dust?

When was the last time you called to have the missionaries come to your door?

Within a day of my joining the forums here. Back then I was in a state and was likely ready to dunk right there. Now, not so much, but I really like it here on the forums. Should I get visitors in white shirts, they are welcome in, and I will ask my questions, be introduced to bishops and see where it goes.

I have actually found many of you here on the forums to be much more helpful.

I hope I am not being offensive, I just found the missionaries to be interesting. Well, young. I never had consistency. One would be moved and I would have to build rapport with someone else. Also, sometimes, I think they would get lost in Thieu youth, bring in a bishop from the local church who would be so busy putting on a good impression that I never got reality. Here, y'all are real.

I think your leaders could learn a thing or two hanging out here.

[miztrniceguy]

i will say this....member or non-member....just because someone says something doesn't mean it's true. here or elsewhere online or IRL.

anyone can say " it says in (insert randon scriptural reference) that the sky is green."

that doesn't mean the sky is green, nor does it mean that the quoted reference really even says it. Things should be investigated and prayed about.

[Jason]

First I'll say that I agree wholeheartedly with SoulSearcher. Read and re-read that post. It was better than mine.

i will say this....member or non-member....just because someone says something doesn't mean it's true. here or elsewhere online or IRL.

anyone can say " it says in (insert randon scriptural reference) that the sky is green."

that doesn't mean the sky is green, nor does it mean that the quoted reference really even says it. Things should be investigated and prayed about.

And I'll also agree with miztrniceguy on this. But unfortunately, some of the sources of "anti" material are hard to come by. Not everything is posted online (or comes in a nice CD package at Deseret Book), and even then you should verify via hard copies in a library or book store. I've seen some dishonesty on both the part of anti's and official LDS. So don't place all your eggs in one basket!

[Lindy]

I hope I am not being offensive, I just found the missionaries to be interesting. Well, young. I never had consistency. One would be moved and I would have to build rapport with someone else. Also, sometimes, I think they would get lost in Thieu youth, bring in a bishop from the local church who would be so busy putting on a good impression that I never got reality. Here, y'all are real.

I think your leaders could learn a thing or two hanging out here.

I think that is a problem with a lot of those who are looking into the church Captain... no consistency (the changing of the missionaries so often) I can see that being a down side on the investigators part. That is when people like Winnie G and Mrs S need to step in and keep that fire going..... by finding alternate ways of helping out, but then they know their limits in a particular individual.

As for whose qualified?.... anyone who knows the doctrine, anyone who can give clean honest answers to any question. I know to ask an active member any question I have pertaining to certain things regarding the church.... and if I want honest answers on what they think is wrong with the church... I have people like Jason and SS to go to to ask... knowing that they will be honest with me and tell me how they feel. But than again.... I know that neither of them would try to talk me out of what I believed in. They would be willing to help me out..... literally OUT if I wanted to go. :).... but that's what friends are for.

As for reality.... we have to find it on our own.... thru prayer ..... Can't rely on a good impression to find the truth.

[Jason]

Thanks for the compliment Lindy.

I believe that some here like MrsS have the mistaken idea about me. Im not here to get people to leave Mormonism. They will or they won't, but it's not my goal. I just want people to think. If they can do that, and do it honestly, and still remain Mormon, then they have my respect. (Snow's a great example of this.)

If, on the other hand, one can do no better than to just "believe" (Love you anyways Ray) but they refuse to accept difficulties or inconsistencies, I don't have as much respect.

[CaptainTux]

The switchover was tough. I would break the ice and get a rare young man that did not sound like an automaton and would take me to task with bold and respectful debates on my view of scripture verses the lds. Then he would be elsewhere and I would have to start over with someone new.

Why the frequent moving?

If one is assigned to mission in St Louis...why not stay in St Louis for the duration?

It just seems to me to make sense to build rapport, forge relationships and trust, and build the mission.

I think the beginning section was 12 lessons. I ended with 2 different people than I started with.

This is not meant to be a complaint or slam...perhaps there is an angle I am missing that makes this make sense.

[BenRaines]

Captain Tux, while I understand the frustration of having the full time missionaries change as they are teaching for me it is very important that the members in your area be very involved in the missionary work. We often have local members go out and teach with the missionaries. These are the same people that they will see at church on a regular basis and be able to build that family spirit that is found so often at church.

The numbers of people that join the church because of relationships or rapport with the missionaries and then fall away is high. So much better for rapport to be built with the people that are living in your neighborhood. That is one of the reasons that members are encouraged to be actively involved in missionary work and not leave it all up to the full time missionaries.

When we have had people checking out the church come in to our home and be taught by the missionaries there is a much greater success than if only left to meet with the missionaries in the home.

I think more members do not get involved because once they feel the spirit and decided to join the church or if they have been members all their lives they stop studying and feel that they will be challenged on something that they don't know or understand.

I read a lot but for me the gospel of Jesus Christ is very simple. Love God and treat others as you would like to be treated.

I show my love for God and Jesus Christ by doing the things he has asked me in the scriptures or from the mouth of the living prophets. I do all I can to be kind to my fellowman and treat him as I would like to be treated. After all that I will leave it up to Christ to decide if I am worthy to live with my Father in Heaven and him.

Lots of other things are done or not done in this life and for them I will be responsible but I will do my best to live as I believe he would have me live.

Just a few thoughts of mine.

Ben Raines

[Jason]

Why the frequent moving?

If one is assigned to mission in St Louis...why not stay in St Louis for the duration?

It just seems to me to make sense to build rapport, forge relationships and trust, and build the mission.

What nobody's told you yet CT is that there are, well, let's call them "discipline" problems that require frequent moving. I saw lots of reasons when I was a Missionary for the Elders (and even the Sisters) to get moved around regularly. If you want more info, just send me a PM.

[prisonchaplain]

Okay, so what have I learned so far?

1. Any LDS member can teach to a certain point, and some can explain doctrines as well or better than most missionaries.

2. The priesthood has little to do with one's ability to explain church teachings.

3. Jason can probably give as good an academic explanation as most commited LDS members, but perhaps not a spirit-empowered faith-affirming testimony.

4. The missionaries are called and anointed to give those seriously contemplating LDS gospel the lessons that can lead to membership and baptism.

So, back to the issue that led me to start this string: Is the frequent disclaimer to go to lds.org or mormon.org or to call the missionaries really like a legal disclaimer--hey we might not get it totally right, so there are "official sources" out there? Perhaps, also, there is the belief that once the curious start searching the actual Scriptures and engaging official church sources, the anointing of the Spirit will more heavily draw?

If so, the main difference between the LDS and others, is that we do not have a core of missionaries, and rely on church members to do that work themselves. Otherwise, we are quick to get the curious to reading their Bibles, often suggesting they start with the gospel of John.

Thanks everyone--great and informative comments.

[shanstress70]

3. Jason can probably give as good an academic explanation as most commited LDS members, but perhaps not a spirit-empowered faith-affirming testimony.

This about made me spit my drink out... don't know why it was so funny, but it was.

[prisonchaplain]

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3. Jason can probably give as good an academic explanation as most commited LDS members, but perhaps not a spirit-empowered faith-affirming testimony.

This about made me spit my drink out... don't know why it was so funny, but it was.

Shantress, it's scary enough when you start understanding my humor. However, now you are even picking up on my unintended wit-antics. This is truly frightening. You may wish to consider Christian counseling.

[shanstress70]

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<div class='quotemain'>

3. Jason can probably give as good an academic explanation as most commited LDS members, but perhaps not a spirit-empowered faith-affirming testimony.

This about made me spit my drink out... don't know why it was so funny, but it was.

Shantress, it's scary enough when you start understanding my humor. However, now you are even picking up on my unintended wit-antics. This is truly frightening. You may wish to consider Christian counseling.

Do you have any slots available?

And Jason, it's not funny bc I disagree with it (I thought it could've sounded that way)... I am always impressed with your knowledge of the subject at hand.

Now that I've analyzed it to death...

[Ray]

Thanks for the compliment Lindy.

I believe that some here like MrsS have the mistaken idea about me. Im not here to get people to leave Mormonism. They will or they won't, but it's not my goal. I just want people to think. If they can do that, and do it honestly, and still remain Mormon, then they have my respect. (Snow's a great example of this.)

If, on the other hand, one can do no better than to just "believe" (Love you anyways Ray) but they refuse to accept difficulties or inconsistencies, I don't have as much respect.

Jason,

I have my “reasoning” for believing what I believe and I have explained much of my "reasoning" to you, so your characterization of me saying that I “just believe” things is truly not in harmony with all truth… and is simply one more example of what you see and believe that I can see and believe very differently.

For instance, on another thread, I explained my beliefs about 2 Nephi chapter 3, and not only did I tell you what I believe, but I also showed you how my beliefs make good sense by using my knowledge of the English language, although you did not see or admit that.

Anyway, to share my beliefs about who I believe should “share the gospel” with others, I say it is best left to those who have authority, because if anybody else says what they think or believe, what they say might not be the truth and might cause other people to be deceived, which will not only hurt the “student”, but will also hurt the “teacher”, because we are all held accountable for what we do.

For instance, it is best for an “investigator” of the Church to ask someone with authority in the Church to find out what to believe about Joseph Smith, because if anybody else tells that “investigator” what they think or believe about Joseph what they say might not be the truth and might cause that “investigator” to be deceived, which will not only hurt the “investigator”, but will also hurt the “teacher”, because we are all held accountable for what we do.

Or in other words, it is best for an “investigator” of the Church to ask one of the authorities of the Church to find out what to believe about Joseph Smith, because if anybody else tells that “investigator” what they think or believe, what they say might not be the truth and might cause that “investigator” to be deceived, which will not only hurt the “investigator”, but will also hurt the “teacher”, because we are all held accountable for what we do.

But everyone has the “right” to say and believe whatever they want to (but everyone will also be held accountable), so if you know the truth and want to help teach some other people the truth please feel free to say what you believe.

And btw, every member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints has the authority to share the gospel with other people, because that authority has been given by our Lord through all of His appointed leaders... but the authority to "share" the gospel does not include the authority to administer in all of the ordinances... or to be one of our Lord's appointed leaders of His church... regardless of what anyone else says or believes.