Physical Appearance

[LDSDude12]

Thank you all for sharing some of your thoughts. Its really helped me to consider some things. In regards to if we will look the same in the next life, scripture evidence seems to point in a direction that to some degree we will.

Consider Doctrine and Covenants section 137 when the Prophet Joseph Smith recognizes his brother Alvin in the Celestial Kingdom. Or section 138 where the Prophet Joseph F Smith sees the Spirit World and recognizes such individuals as Adam and Eve, Abel, Seth, Noah, Isaiah, Elijah, Moses, Joseph Smith, Brigham Young, John Taylor, and Joseph F Smith's father - Hyrum Smith. He would have recognized his father most definitely. They retained their previous look as spirits.

I believe we will look more beautiful when we are glorified with perfected bodies. Even though, perhaps some will look more physical beautiful than others. I wish I understood why this is...maybe we won't care then.

Its just so hard to comprehend since looks plays such a huge part now in this life. As the person who mentioned above my post said, God knows and sees beauty. This earth is quite beautiful the way it is. The next life even more so.

One thing for sure though is - going through this life with looks that aren't always beautiful is not easy. People are teased and miss opportunities that beautiful people have. I know the atonement makes up for injustice. I wish I just understood how.

[FunkyTown]

One thing for sure though is - going through this life with looks that aren't always beautiful is not easy. People are teased and miss opportunities that beautiful people have. I know the atonement makes up for injustice. I wish I just understood how.

Did having people poke fun at your ears really mess you up this bad? I went to school and had to hear the same poem at least once a day for the first five years I went to school:

"John, John the Leprechaun.

Went to school with nothing on.

Teacher said: That's no fair.

Give me back my underwear."

And I had to laugh. Every. Single. Time. Or it would get worse. EVERYbody is teased in grade school. If you want things to improve, you have to stop blaming your circumstances or your ears or (Insert anything else right now).

You have to make a choice to be happy. If you choose it, you will be. If you choose sadness, you will be sad.

[Seminarysnoozer]

The uniqueness gives us something special so we can differentiate eachother from one another. Being exactly the same would be very dull and boring. Uniqueness is complex and just the way God chose to do things. You might have to ask him why he chose to do it this way.

Where do you get that He chose to do it that way? He made Adam and Eve, He didn't make 3 or 4 couples, like 'primary colors' from which many different varieties could be made. The Fall is what created the variability, which is a part of degradation and corruption from the original creation. The Atonement allows for recovery from the Fall situation in all respects.

We know why He allowed this to happen, it is part of the test, as you can see from the OP. There is struggle and challenge in this way. It is part of the test. When the test is over we won't be in test conditions any longer. Most of the responses here are focused on dealing with the test here, which is fine but the OP is struggling with the idea that the test will continue onto the next life and can't see how that is fair. The test won't continue, we will enter into His rest, as far as that goes.

If one finds variability something they can't live without there is such a Kingdom, 'as the stars vary one from another'. (note: variability is different from variety)

Edited June 17, 2011 by Seminarysnoozer

[Seminarysnoozer]

Thank you all for sharing some of your thoughts. Its really helped me to consider some things. In regards to if we will look the same in the next life, scripture evidence seems to point in a direction that to some degree we will.

Consider Doctrine and Covenants section 137 when the Prophet Joseph Smith recognizes his brother Alvin in the Celestial Kingdom. Or section 138 where the Prophet Joseph F Smith sees the Spirit World and recognizes such individuals as Adam and Eve, Abel, Seth, Noah, Isaiah, Elijah, Moses, Joseph Smith, Brigham Young, John Taylor, and Joseph F Smith's father - Hyrum Smith. He would have recognized his father most definitely. They retained their previous look as spirits.

I believe we will look more beautiful when we are glorified with perfected bodies. Even though, perhaps some will look more physical beautiful than others. I wish I understood why this is...maybe we won't care then.

Its just so hard to comprehend since looks plays such a huge part now in this life. As the person who mentioned above my post said, God knows and sees beauty. This earth is quite beautiful the way it is. The next life even more so.

One thing for sure though is - going through this life with looks that aren't always beautiful is not easy. People are teased and miss opportunities that beautiful people have. I know the atonement makes up for injustice. I wish I just understood how.

The spirit world means they are not resurrected yet. And the Celestial kingdom vision doesn't say that they looked different, just that he recognized them which shouldn't prove that they look different. I am sure we recognize each other on a spiritual level. If it was physical recognition, how did we differentiate each other before this life, we had no physical body.

I think this discussion falls into the broader category of struggle between the seeking of self centered goals verses a collective goal. Satan sought glory for himself which goes against how the system works the best which is the fact that we can't receive glory on our own, even God's glory is dependent on bringing to pass the immortality and Eternal life of man, which is not self centered.

The idea of maintaining uniqueness and differences from others, 'stand out from the crowd', 'be yourself' is a satanic idea in that it focuses on self. The gospel of Christ, in general, is a message of being one with Christ and God and treating everyone equal with love, to not focus on self. That was Christ' last prayer that we be one with Him as He is one with His Father.

We can choose whether we like the idea of uniqueness (whether that is maintained or not, I don't know) or forsake the things of this world. The struggle and confusion occurs when we hold on to things of this world in our hearts. God does not see people as the world sees people, the world looks at the outside where God looks at what is inside. The outside is just a temporary state, that is not who you really are.

Edited June 17, 2011 by Seminarysnoozer

[FanOf31]

Where do you get that He chose to do it that way? He made Adam and Eve, He didn't make 3 or 4 couples, like 'primary colors' from which many different varieties could be made. The Fall is what created the variability, which is a part of degradation and corruption from the original creation. The Atonement allows for recovery from the Fall situation in all respects.

We know why He allowed this to happen, it is part of the test, as you can see from the OP. There is struggle and challenge in this way. It is part of the test. When the test is over we won't be in test conditions any longer. Most of the responses here are focused on dealing with the test here, which is fine but the OP is struggling with the idea that the test will continue onto the next life and can't see how that is fair. The test won't continue, we will enter into His rest, as far as that goes.

If one finds variability something they can't live without there is such a Kingdom, 'as the stars vary one from another'. (note: variability is different from variety)

I think also it's just a scientific way to make it possible for each person to be different than anyone else out of billions if not trillions of people. So scientifically our atoms have enough variables to handle a high volume of people making it possible for a way for everyone to be unique, even twins.

[Seminarysnoozer]

I think also it's just a scientific way to make it possible for each person to be different than anyone else out of billions if not trillions of people. So scientifically our atoms have enough variables to handle a high volume of people making it possible for a way for everyone to be unique, even twins.

Then you are saying that there are some things that are just random that God has no control over.

[LDSDude12]

Did having people poke fun at your ears really mess you up this bad? I went to school and had to hear the same poem at least once a day for the first five years I went to school:

"John, John the Leprechaun.

Went to school with nothing on.

Teacher said: That's no fair.

Give me back my underwear."

And I had to laugh. Every. Single. Time. Or it would get worse. EVERYbody is teased in grade school. If you want things to improve, you have to stop blaming your circumstances or your ears or (Insert anything else right now).

You have to make a choice to be happy. If you choose it, you will be. If you choose sadness, you will be sad.

I think you have me mixed up with a different person in this thread, FunkyTown. I am the original OP. Some other guy was talking about his ears.

[FanOf31]

Then you are saying that there are some things that are just random that God has no control over.

I am? People here love putting words in my mouth. I actually belive God intricately designed everything Random? lol not a chance.

[Still_Small_Voice]

A lot of being attractive to me is what you are. I've met skin deep attractive women. They are beautiful on the outside but they were repulsive to me after I discovered their character.

I have also met people I did not think were attractive. After I got to know them I loved them because of who they were.

I do not like being bald but I have just learned to accept it. My wife stated once that she did not want me to have hair after the resurrection because she loves how I look now.

[Guest tbaird22]

I think the beauty of the afterlife is the uniqueness each individual has. I think that God's definition of beauty is the same.

[Seminarysnoozer]

I am? People here love putting words in my mouth. I actually belive God intricately designed everything Random? lol not a chance.

That was a question, just didn't put the question mark after it, sorry.

[Seminarysnoozer]

I am? People here love putting words in my mouth. I actually belive God intricately designed everything Random? lol not a chance.

The way one looks is based, at least in part, in the randomness of genetics. ... autosomal recessive or dominant traits etc. So, there are some things traits that get passed on 25% of the time on purpose that God just makes it look random?

And those are the traits we get forever?

[Seminarysnoozer]

A lot of being attractive to me is what you are. I've met skin deep attractive women. They are beautiful on the outside but they were repulsive to me after I discovered their character.

I have also met people I did not think were attractive. After I got to know them I loved them because of who they were.

I do not like being bald but I have just learned to accept it. My wife stated once that she did not want me to have hair after the resurrection because she loves how I look now.

It sounds like you and your wife, then, don't share the same views as to what is attractive. You look at the inside and she is holding onto what is on the outside, according to the limited information you gave in this example. (I am sure she looks at the inside too, but you gave an example of her holding onto the bald attraction)

I don't think it can be both ways, either there is value to appearance or there is not. Even if it is some small portion of value to the outside, there is still some. People here are trying to say that there is no value to the outside, 0% value. And yet examples are given all the time that people want to hold onto their uniqueness or a certain trait. I don't think it can be both ways, either there is some value to appearance or there is not in the next life.

[Seminarysnoozer]

I think the beauty of the afterlife is the uniqueness each individual has. I think that God's definition of beauty is the same.

I would think that most of us have the goal of making it into the highest level of the Celestial Kingdom which is to obtain all that God has. If we all desire to have all that God has, what is left out?

To have uniqueness requires the fact that some have some traits that others don't. Either we want to have some things that others don't or we want to be in a place where all will have all (at some point). In other words, our desire would be that we would all be the same. I believe the people that make it to the highest level of the Celestial Kingdom have in their hearts that they be one with God and have all that He has and everyone around them the same, not that some have deficiencies in certain areas that stay that way forever.

I truly do not see how some having something different, whatever feature that is, that others find value in and others do not have is beautiful. If one says, it doesn't matter what the outside is, then it also wouldn't matter that there are unique features either. So, to you the uniqueness is valuable but by saying so then you also find it valuable that some people are deficient in certain areas. In other words, it is beautiful that we all can't have it all?

[Backroads]

I would think that most of us have the goal of making it into the highest level of the Celestial Kingdom which is to obtain all that God has. If we all desire to have all that God has, what is left out?

To have uniqueness requires the fact that some have some traits that others don't. Either we want to have some things that others don't or we want to be in a place where all will have all (at some point). In other words, our desire would be that we would all be the same. I believe the people that make it to the highest level of the Celestial Kingdom have in their hearts that they be one with God and have all that He has and everyone around them the same, not that some have deficiencies in certain areas that stay that way forever.

I truly do not see how some having something different, whatever feature that is, that others find value in and others do not have is beautiful. If one says, it doesn't matter what the outside is, then it also wouldn't matter that there are unique features either. So, to you the uniqueness is valuable but by saying so then you also find it valuable that some people are deficient in certain areas. In other words, it is beautiful that we all can't have it all?

I have to say I hate the idea that we will all be exactly the same, no differences whatsoever. I hate the idea that I will lose my particular personality. I hate the idea that I have no value as I am. You seem to be suggesting we are all going to be personality-void clones.

EDIT:

I just read that it sounds bitter. I just think there is a difference between everyone being exactly the same and I don't think a lack of differences in physicality (I still don't see this happening) will mean we can't all be the same in God.

Edited June 20, 2011 by Backroads

[Seminarysnoozer]

I have to say I hate the idea that we will all be exactly the same, no differences whatsoever. I hate the idea that I will lose my particular personality. I hate the idea that I have no value as I am. You seem to be suggesting we are all going to be personality-void clones.

EDIT:

I just read that it sounds bitter. I just think there is a difference between everyone being exactly the same and I don't think a lack of differences in physicality (I still don't see this happening) will mean we can't all be the same in God.

Pretty much everything in the gospel suggests that we are on the same track, maybe different points on the track but we all end up eating the same fruit. ... iron rod, narrow path, straightway. We currently live in a world where diversity is valued and desired and I believe that can be a good thing for this world. It allows for many different talents and interests to be shared. Where we are heading with this though, I get the impression, is like an arrowhead, heading towards the sharp point. We start out diverse but head towards one point, not the other way around. ... if the arrowhead represents how similar we are (not knowledge, experience etc.)

Look at it this way, if we are fortunate enough to make it into the celestial kingdom, what special feature would you have or anyone there have that our Father wouldn't have?

All differences and "uniqueness" come from imperfections or deficiencies. My goal is not imperfections and so uniqueness is not my goal. If 2 people in the ages of time to come have worked on perfecting themselves, eventually, it will be harder and harder to tell those two people apart just like it is hard to distinguish the Son from the Father. I don't think remaining distinguished and unique should be our goal or desire. Of course, nobody is perfect here, so we still hold onto those 'uniqueness' drives but we try to push them aside. I think we are so far from it that it is hard to imagine but at the same time we don't want to look backwards.

[Backroads]

Pretty much everything in the gospel suggests that we are on the same track, maybe different points on the track but we all end up eating the same fruit. ... iron rod, narrow path, straightway. We currently live in a world where diversity is valued and desired and I believe that can be a good thing for this world. It allows for many different talents and interests to be shared. Where we are heading with this though, I get the impression, is like an arrowhead, heading towards the sharp point. We start out diverse but head towards one point, not the other way around. ... if the arrowhead represents how similar we are (not knowledge, experience etc.)

Look at it this way, if we are fortunate enough to make it into the celestial kingdom, what special feature would you have or anyone there have that our Father wouldn't have?

All differences and "uniqueness" come from imperfections or deficiencies. My goal is not imperfections and so uniqueness is not my goal. If 2 people in the ages of time to come have worked on perfecting themselves, eventually, it will be harder and harder to tell those two people apart just like it is hard to distinguish the Son from the Father. I don't think remaining distinguished and unique should be our goal or desire. Of course, nobody is perfect here, so we still hold onto those 'uniqueness' drives but we try to push them aside. I think we are so far from it that it is hard to imagine but at the same time we don't want to look backwards.

Yet what will be the "perfect" hair color? Eye color? Body type? Clearly, if we are all going to be physical clones, there is going to be a perfect hair color. You may say it doesn't matter, but by your argument, it does.

I also believe you can be unique without being imperfect. I believe the Celestial Kingdom will be the church in its pure form, with different parts and purposes.

[applepansy]

That makes sense but its also hard to understand right now. I just struggle in understanding why some were blessed with beauty...they get the best of both worlds. It just seems so unfair. For example, am I always to be short? Why can't I be taller? Why are some blessed with the ideal both in this life and the next?

I'm a bit late to this conversation and maybe somebody has already made this point but here goes......

Beauty or the world's idea of physical perfection is not always a blessing. Often it is a burden. Beautiful people (especially women) are not always taken seriously. Sometimes people "assume" that because someone is beautiful they don't have the same or sometimes worse struggles as others do, which just isn't true. Sometimes beautiful people are judged as conceited or arrogant when in reality they might be shy or not outgoing, or any other number of other reasons.

Regardless of our appearance and sometimes because of our appearance life is hard and we're going to have trials.

[Vort]

I'm a bit late to this conversation and maybe somebody has already made this point but here goes......

Beauty or the world's idea of physical perfection is not always a blessing. Often it is a burden.

And as I mentioned before, in general physically beautiful people have an easier time in almost every aspect of life than their plainer fellow beings. They are treated nicer and with more patience starting from early childhood. They are given more chances. They are forgiven more easily. They are believed to be smarter, stronger, and more fun to be around. They are given promotions at work over equally- or better-qualified but plainer coworkers. They have an easier time securing a spouse that they like. Each of these may be only an incremental advantage, but in many different areas and over a lifetime, they add up.

It is true that the beautiful face challenges that the less attractive may not, such as excessive vanity. It is also true that in some situations, their beauty may attract unwanted or even injurious attention; I have heard of beautiful little girls being molested while the plainer ones are left alone. But such things, even if sometimes true, don't take away from the overall fact of beautiful people simply having it easier in most aspects of life.

If you could choose whether your child is beautiful or plain, which would you pick for him or her? Why? I suspect most of us know the answers perfectly well.

[applepansy]

And as I mentioned before, in general physically beautiful people have an easier time in almost every aspect of life than their plainer fellow beings. They are treated nicer and with more patience starting from early childhood. They are given more chances. They are forgiven more easily. They are believed to be smarter, stronger, and more fun to be around. They are given promotions at work over equally- or better-qualified but plainer coworkers. They have an easier time securing a spouse that they like. Each of these may be only an incremental advantage, but in many different areas and over a lifetime, they add up.

It is true that the beautiful face challenges that the less attractive may not, such as excessive vanity. It is also true that in some situations, their beauty may attract unwanted or even injurious attention; I have heard of beautiful little girls being molested while the plainer ones are left alone. But such things, even if sometimes true, don't take away from the overall fact of beautiful people simply having it easier in most aspects of life.

If you could choose whether your child is beautiful or plain, which would you pick for him or her? Why? I suspect most of us know the answers perfectly well.

I don't completely agree. I've seen the discrimination and condemnation that beautiful people have to endure. I watched my baby sister shunned and judged and gossiped about by girls in her ward because she was beautiful. I know girls who didn't get dates in high school because all the guys thought "she's out of my league." I've heard guys say some nasty awful things about a beautiful girl. I could go on, but I won't.

If I could choose, I would not want my child to be at either end of the spectrum. There are problems at both ends as with all other opposites in life.

Edited June 20, 2011 by applepansy
addition

[Seminarysnoozer]

Yet what will be the "perfect" hair color? Eye color? Body type? Clearly, if we are all going to be physical clones, there is going to be a perfect hair color. You may say it doesn't matter, but by your argument, it does.

I also believe you can be unique without being imperfect. I believe the Celestial Kingdom will be the church in its pure form, with different parts and purposes.

I don't know what those "perfect" features are anymore than I know the true character of God.

I say it does matter, I never said it didn't. I am saying if people say things like, "it doesn't matter what a person looks like" then they also won't mind if they don't look the same in the next life, you can't have it both ways. If one does care what they look like then they tend to love themselves and want to hold onto that image or that uniqueness.

I guess I am talking more about our goal, our direction, not our current status. The thing about resurrection though is that we believe we will receive our perfected body and never be separated from it again. Now, I suppose that doesn't necessarily mean the appearance of that body can't change over time but I guess I am assuming the appearance of that body will be fixed.

I think the different parts and purposes can be satisfied by other Kingdoms, where their bodies may differ, like the differences of the stars, but as far as the Celestial kingdom, receiving one body the glory of Sun, I can't see how there would be much variability there, especially as those people approach perfect oneness with God and the Lord.

[Seminarysnoozer]

I don't completely agree. I've seen the discrimination and condemnation that beautiful people have to endure. I watched my baby sister shunned and judged and gossiped about by girls in her ward because she was beautiful. I know girls who didn't get dates in high school because all the guys thought "she's out of my league." I've heard guys say some nasty awful things about a beautiful girl. I could go on, but I won't.

If I could choose, I would not want my child to be at either end of the spectrum. There are problems at both ends as with all other opposites in life.

I agree, it is kind of like having money, either end of the spectrum is difficult. And, similar to money, if one develops a love for it I think it can be just as damming in this life. If one glories of themselves because they have a 6'10'' body from which they have made millions of dollars playing basketball etc. (throw in your own example how certain physical features could be advantageous) they would do best to not grow too attached to those temporary 'talents' given to them only to see if they are good stewards (not owners). I steward who claims to be the owner is not a good steward.

[Vort]

Yet what will be the "perfect" hair color? Eye color? Body type?

White, red, and glorious beyond description.

Edited June 20, 2011 by Vort
Fixing the order

[Seminarysnoozer]

Red, white, and glorious beyond description.

Got the hair and the eyes flipped. lol

[Backroads]

Hah! Suppose I deserved that.