Phone bills in the US

[Dravin]

Dravin that's a little pedantic (re: choices - sounds like a lesson about agency at church)

Not really. As I said, just because I have a cell phone doesn't compel me to answer it. And this is someone who is used to being on a plan with thousands of roll over minutes attached to it, and it also applies to my land line so it isn't a position born to justify not going over minutes. The same applies to my front door, if I don't want to answer it I won't. Though I'll usually take a peek through the peep hole first (it might be UPS with a package that needs signed).

I'm not being pedantic to score some sort of rhetoric victory, the idea that I have to answer a phone call is as foreign to me as the idea that you are using minutes with incoming calls is to you.

A lot of companies withhold their number, due to having internal extensions that don't have a corresponding external number (in other words, all external calls get routed through a single number to save money). They block the number, so people that miss the call don't call back and end up talking to the poor switchboard operator who usually has no way of telling who actually called them from within the company.

They should be leaving a voice mail if it's an important call. Which you can check with a land line if you have access to it, though that's not much of a help if you are a cellphone only household.

If I ever end up on such a plan in the USA, I can see myself ignoring pretty much all calls apart from one or two people, and expect everyone else to e-mail or text (unless you get charged for receiving SMS too).

SMS messages received count against your total for that month. This one though is something to legitimately complain about because short of blocking numbers or messaging (in toto) really quick when you reach your upper limit (what ever that number might be) you really don't have a choice but to receive them. For the purposes of this discussion it'd be like your phone answering itself. At least unlimited messaging add-ons for your plan are cheaper than unlimited minutes.

As far as ignoring a lot of your calls, that is what most people who are minute conscious tend to do (and some of us do it even though we have plenty of minutes). Or take advantage of night and weekend minutes (be they a chunk or truly unlimited), and if applicable free mobile-to-mobile . Heck, when I was a missionary they gave us cellphones with something like 400 minutes (which is a basic plan for the US) a month and we never went over by taking advantage of such things. And missionaries as a group get nickled and dimed with quickie phone calls and voice mail checks.

Looking at T-Mobile UK shows your guy's basement monthly plans start at the 100 minute range. Where as T-Mobile US individual monthly plans are starting at 500 minutes (in the UK for the equivalent amount of money you can get even more minutes) Maybe that plays a part in it? Checking some voice mails is a much bigger deal if you've only got 100 minutes instead of 500 and unlike in the UK we can safely assume you have a minimum of 400-500 minutes with a monthly plan from a major carrier (except Sprint who wants to be weird and offer a 200 minute plan for $10 less than their 450 minute one).

Edited July 24, 2011 by Dravin

[Mahone]

They should be leaving a voice mail if it's an important call. Which you can check with a land line if you have access to it, though that's not much of a help if you are a cellphone only household.

In the first scenario given, this could be the difference between "you've got the job" and "you didn't get back to us on time, so we've given it to the next best candidate - sorry".

HR departments can be mean like that...

[Dravin]

In the first scenario given, this could be the difference between "you've got the job" and "you didn't get back to us on time, so we've given it to the next best candidate - sorry".

HR departments can be mean like that...

Then you need to plan your phone resources accordingly. I can think of scenarios where missing a phone call can be bad too, that doesn't mean you have to answer your phone every time it rings. Actually in some circumstances in some areas it's illegal to answer them, such as while driving and not having a bluetooth. Sucks if a business wants to be unreasonable but you can't force them not to be.

Edited July 23, 2011 by Dravin

[pam]

Actually, Pam, my Sprint plan lets me call and receive any call from any mobile phone carrier without charge.

Fly in the soup, my specialty.

So that means I can call you at any time and neither of us will get charged for it? *evil laugh*

[slamjet]

So that means I can call you at any time and neither of us will get charged for it? *evil laugh*

I double-checked my plan and I haven't been charged, nor have I had minuted deducted for mobile to mobile, all carrier calls. So yes, you can call me at any time and we won't get charged. BUT there's this thing about me actually answering your calls

[pam]

Then I could just leave voice messages. :)

[slamjet]

Then I could just leave voice messages. :)

For some reason, this feels scary, stalker-ish

[john doe]

In the first scenario given, this could be the difference between "you've got the job" and "you didn't get back to us on time, so we've given it to the next best candidate - sorry".

HR departments can be mean like that...

And if I am expecting an important call such as that, I will answer every unknown call. If it is not someone I want to talk to, I will end the call pretty quickly.

My family plan has 1000 minutes shared between 5 phones, and we have never come close to using it up. My teenage daughter, though, averages over 20,000 texts/month. Good thing our plan has unlimited texting.

[MormonMama]

Land line? People still have those in their homes?

I don't know anyone who doesn't. Most people I know have cell phones for personal calls (family, friends) and keep the landline for anything else. We have only a landline right now and I honestly don't think we'll go back to cell phones anytime soon. We like not having that "electronic leash".

I can see what you are saying, although the disadvantage of this method is receiving calls from people you don't really want to talk to, but feel you have to, in order to remain polite. Or any similar scenario.

I don't have this problem. If I don't want to talk to someone, I don't answer. Period.

That's another thing that confuses me about the US phone numbering system... the apparent inability to distinguish what type of phone you are calling.

I assume you can at least tell which network you are calling from the phone number in the US? The phone network needs to know where to route the call simply based on the phone number.

No, we can't tell what type of phone we are calling or what network (at least where I live; as you can see from other posts, it depends on the area). And really, why does it matter? It matters not one bit to me what type of phone or what network. The charge to me is the same regardless (and since I pay a flat rate for a certain number of minutes that I never go over on my cell or a flat rate period for a landline, it doesn't affect my cost one bit).

Here in the Phoenix area, we have three area codes and it doesn't matter if it's cell or landline. I only have to dial the area code if it's not the same as mine, but I don't get charged anything extra. Now if I call an area code outside my metropolitan area there's a long-distance charge, but I had free long distance with my cell phone so that didn't affect me either.

Not entirely fair, as the recipient is bound by technical restrictions (you can't always tell who is calling if the caller decides to withhold their number or it's a number you don't know, but could still be an important call) and by etiquette (it's not polite to tell someone you don't want to talk to them, or don't think they are worth paying the phone bill for).

If I can't see who's calling, I don't answer. If it's important, they'll leave me a message and I'll call back. As for etiquette, how do they know why I'm not answering? I could be in the shower, my phone could be dead, I might not be home and forgot my cell phone.

A lot of companies withhold their number, due to having internal extensions that don't have a corresponding external number (in other words, all external calls get routed through a single number to save money). They block the number, so people that miss the call don't call back and end up talking to the poor switchboard operator who usually has no way of telling who actually called them from within the company.

We don't seem to have that issue here in the U.S. Important callers almost always let you know who they are. If they don't, it's usually junk.

In the first scenario given, this could be the difference between "you've got the job" and "you didn't get back to us on time, so we've given it to the next best candidate - sorry".

HR departments can be mean like that...

I've never had that happen. Every job I've gotten was via a voicemail the company left for me. Same holds true for pretty much everyone I know. I know VERY few people who answer a number they don't recognize or that is blocked.

Edited July 23, 2011 by MormonMama

[slamjet]

I know I've asked my ex to keep a land-line for if the kids need to dial 911. No need to triangulate cell signals, or try to remember their address when it all hits the fan. Mom is a brittle diabetic so I want them to have an instant way of getting help.

Other than that, they have absolutely no need for one.

BTW, there are about 8 area codes in Los Angeles alone.

Edited July 23, 2011 by slamjet

[pam]

I don't know anyone who doesn't. Most people I know have cell phones for personal calls (family, friends) and keep the landline for anything else. We have only a landline right now and I honestly don't think we'll go back to cell phones anytime soon. We like not having that "electronic leash".

And I'm completely opposite. I don't really know anyone that has a landline anymore. I haven't had one myself in almost 5 years.

[MormonMama]

I met someone a few years ago who told me the same thing. He said, "No one has a landline anymore!" When I told him that I and everyone I knew did (literally, I think I know only one person who doesn't have a landline), he was genuinely shocked. I'm always equally surprised when people tell me they don't know anyone with a landline, because everyone I know has one and everyone they know has one, etc.

If businesses had my cell phone number, it would never stop ringing! Seriously, we can get 10-15 calls on our landline a day, most of which we don't care about. We've had to add our number to the Do Not Call registry several times over the past few years. I've heard that list only lasts about 2 years, then you have to redo it. I don't know if that's true, but it seems to be so in our case. No way do I want my cell phone going off at work or in class that many times a day, lol! So we make sure that only family and VERY close friends have our cell numbers. Well, when we had cell phones anyway.

[Mahone]

I don't have this problem. If I don't want to talk to someone, I don't answer. Period.

I guess there is a cultural difference here as to what is polite and what is rude.

No, we can't tell what type of phone we are calling or what network (at least where I live; as you can see from other posts, it depends on the area). And really, why does it matter? It matters not one bit to me what type of phone or what network. The charge to me is the same regardless (and since I pay a flat rate for a certain number of minutes that I never go over on my cell or a flat rate period for a landline, it doesn't affect my cost one bit).

This information can be useful. I always take note of what type of phone I'm calling before I actually dial the number. I'm not sure if a lot of people realise the initial numbers of a telephone number actually mean quite a lot (you can always tell what type of phone, and usually what network, and if it's a landline, the metropolitan area), maybe it's just the nerd in me that pays attention to it. Anyway, knowing whether it's a landline or mobile will give me a rough idea as to whether they are actually going to answer the phone or not before I call them. If I know they aren't home, it's nice to know it's a mobile I'm calling and not a landline number.

Besides, there is never any harm in keeping things organised. Makes any changes you'd want to make to the numbering system en mass much less complex further down the line. It looks like the US intended to have a similar system to the UK to begin with, but expanded way beyond their expectations.

If I can't see who's calling, I don't answer. If it's important, they'll leave me a message and I'll call back. As for etiquette, how do they know why I'm not answering? I could be in the shower, my phone could be dead, I might not be home and forgot my cell phone.

People aren't idiots. Well, not everyone is anyway. Those that aren't soon pick up a pattern and the message that comes with it. As I said, I think there is a culture difference here involving the boundaries of what is rude and what isn't. Or maybe just indifference, who knows?

We don't seem to have that issue here in the U.S. Important callers almost always let you know who they are. If they don't, it's usually junk.

Interesting. I was under the impression it was standard practise for any company or organisation that would prefer not to have return calls. Unfortunately there are more reasons for this than telemarketing. People who work from home, volunteers who do work for organisations from home etc. It's not as simple as saying "oh if they were important they'd let me know who they are". It's a useful feature that has been destroyed by people who abuse it.

I've never had that happen. Every job I've gotten was via a voicemail the company left for me. Same holds true for pretty much everyone I know. I know VERY few people who answer a number they don't recognize or that is blocked.

Isn't someone lucky :)

Edited July 24, 2011 by Mahone

[Mahone]

If businesses had my cell phone number, it would never stop ringing! Seriously, we can get 10-15 calls on our landline a day, most of which we don't care about. We've had to add our number to the Do Not Call registry several times over the past few years. I've heard that list only lasts about 2 years, then you have to redo it.

It only applies to places within the USA too. An easy way to get around this is for a company to place their telemarketers in India, where they aren't bound by those laws and they can call whoever they like, regardless of what lists they are on.

Edited July 24, 2011 by Mahone

[mordorbund]

I deal with phone calls on the job all night long. The last thing I want to do when I am not at work is talk on the phone. So I let the phone go to voicemail or will call someone back at my convenience. Especially since I sleep during the day and that seems to be when most want to call me.

And besides that, we all know the best way to get a hold of Pam is through LDS.net.

[john doe]

If businesses had my cell phone number, it would never stop ringing! Seriously, we can get 10-15 calls on our landline a day, most of which we don't care about. We've had to add our number to the Do Not Call registry several times over the past few years. I've heard that list only lasts about 2 years, then you have to redo it. I don't know if that's true, but it seems to be so in our case. No way do I want my cell phone going off at work or in class that many times a day, lol! So we make sure that only family and VERY close friends have our cell numbers. Well, when we had cell phones anyway.

The only way they can get the number is if you give it out or authorize it to be shared. I only give my number to people I need to be in contact with. Phone solicitors are not allowed to cold call cellphones.

[john doe]

It only applies to places within the USA too. An easy way to get around this is for a company to place their telemarketers in India, where they aren't bound by those laws and they can call whoever they like, regardless of what lists they are on.

I'm not so sure of that. If they do business in the US, they are subject to US laws.

[Blocky]

I used to get maybe 3-4 telemarketer calls a week. We moved a few months ago and I changed my address through the usps online. Now it's 3-4 calls a day. I'm pretty peeved about that and it's not like I can stop using the the usps...

[KrazyKay]

Since we moved in 2008 to our current house, we have not had a landline. We've been a cell phone only family since 2008. We have also received 0 telemarketer calls since then. The only thing I find so frustrating is on the church records we have my husband's cell number on his name and my cell number with my name and our daughter's name... but anytime someone wants to call to talk to me - they call my husband's number instead of mine. We have told the individuals as well as the clerk to help clear it up all to no avail.

[Mahone]

I'm not so sure of that. If they do business in the US, they are subject to US laws.

That's probably true, I know it is here. But this kind of thing is fairly easy to work around - laws like this always have loopholes.

Company one, based in Sweden, has has a daughter company, company two. Company two is based and registered as a company in the USA. Company one is only registered in Sweden.

Company two has a discreet check box that a lot of their customers miss that says they can share their contact details with relevant third parties. In this case, that means sharing them with company one.

Company one calls the customers of company two, without having to worry about any lists or regulations that exist in the USA, as they are based in Sweden, and aren't registered as a company in the USA. They don't do business directly in the USA either, only company two does.

This is obviously something I've made up off the top of my head, and there may be some clause in there which stops them doing specifically this. But as with anything international, there is always a loophole somewhere due to the fact that you cannot control what happens abroad (no matter how much our respective countries try to).

Edited July 24, 2011 by Mahone

[MormonMama]

I guess there is a cultural difference here as to what is polite and what is rude.

Apparently so. Here it's very commonplace to not answer the phone if you don't want to talk. It's just accepted that sometimes people are just too busy or not in the mood.

This information can be useful. I always take note of what type of phone I'm calling before I actually dial the number. I'm not sure if a lot of people realise the initial numbers of a telephone number actually mean quite a lot (you can always tell what type of phone, and usually what network, and if it's a landline, the metropolitan area), maybe it's just the nerd in me that pays attention to it. Anyway, knowing whether it's a landline or mobile will give me a rough idea as to whether they are actually going to answer the phone or not before I call them. If I know they aren't home, it's nice to know it's a mobile I'm calling and not a landline number.

Besides, there is never any harm in keeping things organised. Makes any changes you'd want to make to the numbering system en mass much less complex further down the line. It looks like the US intended to have a similar system to the UK to begin with, but expanded way beyond their expectations.

I don't know that the U.S. ever had a similar system. Not in my lifetime anyway. I guess I just don't see any usefulness in knowing whether I'm calling someone's cell phone or landline. If I know them, I already know which number goes to which phone.

People aren't idiots. Well, not everyone is anyway. Those that aren't soon pick up a pattern and the message that comes with it. As I said, I think there is a culture difference here involving the boundaries of what is rude and what isn't. Or maybe just indifference, who knows?

Huh? How did you get "people are idiots" out of my post? Unless they're psychic, they DON'T know why I'm not answering.

Interesting. I was under the impression it was standard practise for any company or organisation that would prefer not to have return calls. Unfortunately there are more reasons for this than telemarketing. People who work from home, volunteers who do work for organisations from home etc. It's not as simple as saying "oh if they were important they'd let me know who they are". It's a useful feature that has been destroyed by people who abuse it.

I think companies just operate differently in the UK. Here, leaving messages is as common as breathing. You just expect that you will probably be leaving a message. When I have worked phones in a business in the past (and for church functions, volunteer functions, etc.) I ended up leaving a message more often than I talked to a person.

Isn't someone lucky :)

I don't think it's luck, I think it's just the way it is here.

Edited July 24, 2011 by MormonMama

[MormonMama]

The only way they can get the number is if you give it out or authorize it to be shared. I only give my number to people I need to be in contact with. Phone solicitors are not allowed to cold call cellphones.

I wish that was true, but I've had businesses get hold of my phone number when I know darn well I never gave it to them and I NEVER authorize my number to be shared. It does happen.

[Blocky]

Apparently so. Here it's very commonplace to not answer the phone if you don't want to talk. It's just accepted that sometimes people are just too busy or not in the mood.

If I'm in the middle of feeding the kids lunch, trying to get out the door in the next 20 minutes and have a stinky baby to change, answering the phone to someone who is notoriously long winded is just asking to make my life harder than it needs to be. To every thing a time and place, including answering the phone.

[Mahone]

I don't know that the U.S. ever had a similar system. Not in my lifetime anyway. I guess I just don't see any usefulness in knowing whether I'm calling someone's cell phone or landline. If I know them, I already know which number goes to which phone.

That's great, but not everyone knows the phone number, and what type of phone it is, of every friend, colleague and acquaintance. Only yesterday I had to phone the missionaries of my ward. I've never contacted them before, but I know they have both a landline and mobile. As they were on their way to an investigator, it was nice to know I was calling their mobile phone as calling their landline would be pretty useless and a waste of my time. This information also helped me know what kind of message to leave, as I could guess roughly when they'd receive it (i.e. they would most likely have it before they got home).

Huh? How did you get "people are idiots" out of my post? Unless they're psychic, they DON'T know why I'm not answering.

Correct. But part of human intelligence is the ability to spot patterns, and use of averages to figure out that there can only be a certain amount of times you really and genuinely weren't available to take the phone call. Do you have a facebook account? Ever deleted a friend simply because you don't like them, and they notice? Ignoring the phone to some people and not others can create the same type of hurt feelings. By all means, it's well within your right to do it, and people do it all the time. This isn't the same as being polite.

I think companies just operate differently in the UK. Here, leaving messages is as common as breathing. You just expect that you will probably be leaving a message. When I have worked phones in a business in the past (and for church functions, volunteer functions, etc.) I ended up leaving a message more often than I talked to a person.

That's all well and good, but I was talking about people withholding their numbers and it's (sometimes incorrect) association with telemarketers.

Edited July 25, 2011 by Mahone

[beefche]

Ok, Mahone. I think you are missing the point.

You may find it rude to not answer the phone. But, in the US, it is very common to get someone's voicemail and leave a message. There are a variety of reasons why and even a variety of reasons why it's so often that one person doesn't answer the phone. It is not rude in US to get voicemail and/or to leave a message. It just isn't. Even businesses don't find it rude. In fact, many training programs (I am a trainer for my company) suggest that a wise use of time is to allow some phone calls to go to voicemail.

And texting is becoming more and more popular. So, oftentimes if someone wants to talk to someone, they would actually probably text them to call them when they have time.