I Have 6 Questions....

[Traveler]

*Sigh*

I don't want to come on like I know it all, because I don't, I have only been reseaching Mormonism for a week.

Josh

It appears that you have not researched Mormonism at all but that you have researched anti-Mormonism for a whole week. And from the anti Mormon source(s) that you have reached some rather biased opinions that are completely in line with your anti-Mormon source(s). From what you have posted it appears that you have not researched (let alone read) one single publication of the Church of Jesus Christ of LDS. If this is true this really disappoints me that you would attempt to imply that you do "open minded" research based on friendly and enemy input - and your only input was anti to from your opinion that you have no intention of changing and that you real purpose in come here is not to get a balanced to your research but to help Mormons find the real truth.

I am not sure what your definition of prejudice is but mine is to form an opinion based on one sided information. Remember you have clearly stated that you do not believe Mormonism. Let's start with one honest admission. What publications of the Church of Jesus Christ of LDS have you read?

Here is something for you to research and I will make it easy for you (start in the Gospel of John). When Christ taught for 3 years as recorded in the New Testament what did those that were anti to his message accuse him of? For example did they say his teachings contridicted their scripture? Now read Chapter 10 of John. Why did they want to kill Jesus? What did they say he was teaching that was reason for them to want to kill him? What did Jesus say they should consider about him before they oppose him - have you considered the same thing in opposing the Mormons?

The Traveler

[JoshuaFKon]

Thank you for answering one of the problems I brought up,

Let’s look at in again because I’m not sure I agree with you….

“Behold, David and Solomon truly had many bwives and concubines, which thing was cabominable before me, saith the Lord….Wherefore, my brethren, hear me, and hearken to the word of the Lord: For there shall not any aman among you have save it be bone cwife; and concubines he shall have none; …. 30 For if I will, saith the Lord of Hosts, raise up aseed unto me, I will command my people; otherwise they shall hearken unto these things. “

“David also received amany wives and concubines, and also Solomon and Moses my servants, as also many others of my servants, from the beginning of creation until this time; and in nothing did they sin save in those things which they received not of me.”

I can see what you’re saying; that, if God directed, you could have more wives(not saying I agree with it, but I see it) However, it says “Behold, David and aSolomon truly had many bwives and concubines, which thing was cabominable before me, saith the Lord”

So…obviously…the Lord didn’t give them to David or Solomon…etc….correct me if I’m wrong.

As for Snow, who says “In short - he has bad intentions. He doesn't need to be treated with consideration - just called on this blather.”

Well, that’s your right, if you don’t want to treat people (or me in particular) with consideration…that’s you’re choice.

“quick check of his website shows he is honest or knowledgeable”

Lol…I couldn’t be both? ( it’s the honest one)

“our friend Joshua didn't include the fact that he was stealing someone else's questions when he told us they were "his questions." C'mon Joshua, you're doing everything all wrong.”

One, I didn’t claim to come up with these answer by myself, two, your link doesn’t work.”

Now as For Traveler, who says

“it appears that you have not researched (let alone read) one single publication of the Church of Jesus Christ of LDS.” and

“Let's start with one honest admission. What publications of the Church of Jesus Christ of LDS have you read?”

I have read The Book of Mormon, (not completely) I have read just about everything on Jefflindsay’s site, FAIR, FARMS, LDS.org….etc…What kind of Anti-Mormon sites have you read?

Josh

[Guest ApostleKnight]

Joshua, I think we've all given you plenty of our time. You claim to have read everything on jefflindsay's website, fairlds, etc... What more can you want? For crying out loud, those are the best answers out there. You just can't leave it alone. You know the LDS responses to "your" questions...and nice try twisting my words, I never said you claimed to have found the answers to the anti-mormon questions, I said you claimed the questions were yours, as a diligent, honest seeker of truth, leading us on to believe that after careful pondering of LDS doctrines these unreconcilable issues weighed heavily on your mind...blah, blah, blah.

What a joke Joshua. You're wasting your time here. Just keep reading LDS scriptures and answer your questions for yourself...if you don't believe in the LDS Church, fine, but don't keep looking for answers you don't want.

[Jason]

Hey JoshK,

How about the ex-mormon point-of-view?

B)

(1) If the Book of Mormon is true then, considering the way it was "translated" why have there been any changes made to it?

Ever heard of modern copyediting? Do you think the Bible originally had commas, periods, or verse numbers?

The two or three "significant" changes are really not that big of a deal. I could produce a list of thousands of changes in the King James Bible since 1611, but does that invalidate that text for you? Probably not. Same for the Mormons, bud.

(2) If The Book of Mormon is true then why does it seem to copy the KJV of the Bible? Even so far as to copy the words that were added by the translators, and errors in the Hebrew?

Because it did copy the KJV. So what? Smith liked the verses, and used them. Where's the problem? Have you ever translated anything? Im currently doing some english to spanish work, and I borrow phrases from online translators whenever I can. Makes the work go smoother, and I just go back and fix those phrases which dont make sense when translated directly.

If I were actually translating as we think Joseph Smith did ('cause frankly, we really have no flipin clue exactly how it worked) I would "cheat" whenever possible.

(3) Why is there no archeological evidence of the Book of Mormon's claims? And why does the evidence seem to contradict it? E.g. the animals, crops, and metalworking.

Most will tell you that the evidence just hasn't shown up yet. That's fine, but I don't believe the text is a literal rendition of history. It may be "true" as far as a teaching tool is concerned, but really that's good enough. You can't prove a flood, a parting of the red sea, heck the existence of anyone from King David to Adam, but nobody's calling you to the floor, are they?

(4) If Joseph Smith was a prophet of God, then why did some of his prophecies fail to come to pass?

If Jesus was the Son of God, then why did his prophecy (Matt. 16:28) that some would not taste of death until his second coming fail to come to pass? Cause shiz happens little buddy. I'd say that 5 for 10 is a better record than you or I could come up with anyway.

(5) if the other scriptures (e.g. The Book of Abraham etc.) are true why do they seem to contradict each other?

Two words: "Continuous Revelation". It means that anything can be changed at any time. Unique for the Mormons, but highly effective.

(6) And how do you explain that the Book of Abraham does not read as Joseph Smith claimed it did?

Could be anything. Mystical interpretation of the text, wrong text entirely, etc, etc.

Frankly, if the Mormons are happy where they are, why do you give a flippity-flop?

NOTE: Edited out the cussing.

[Guest ApostleKnight]

Thanks for the frank response Jason. One reason I respect you is your ability to be fair even if you disagree. I don't think our friend Joshua will accept your answers because he seems to have his thumbs stuck up his...ears. I'll leave it at that. :)

[Jason]

I've been avoiding this thread, but I decided I'd weigh in and see if it made any difference for our new buddy.

[Guest ApostleKnight]

One can only hope.

[Snow]

As for Snow, who says “In short - he has bad intentions. He doesn't need to be treated with consideration - just called on this blather.”

Well, that’s your right, if you don’t want to treat people (or me in particular) with consideration…that’s you’re choice.

“quick check of his website shows he is honest or knowledgeable”

Lol…I couldn’t be both? ( it’s the honest one)

Let me correct the typo. Judging by your website, your either dishonest or undeducated (on things Mormon).

Judging by your posts here, your a plagarist and don't back up your allegations.

[Jason]

He is a teenager Snow. We could cut him some slack.

[Snow]

He is a teenager Snow. We could cut him some slack.

Okay. I forgive him his lack of knowledge.

I don't care how old you are... honesty and honorable intentions still count.... at least if you profess to hold Christian or or Christian-like values.

[prisonchaplain]

*Sigh* : Let me tell you a little about myself, I am now 18 years old, and I was raised in a strong Christian home. When I was about 15 years old, I had to defend my faith to a friend of mine, and I really just couldn't do it. I was also going through I rough period of time in my life that made me question my faith. I began to doubt my religon and wonder if there was even a God. Most of my family and friends are christians, but I can't say that they really researched Christianity, most of them just have "faith" in Christianity. I wish sometimes that I had the same kind of faith as they do...that I could just believe and have no doubts. But I can't. Anyway, I decided to try and prove my faith to myself, I read heavily on the subject, wrote papers, and searched for evidence, I was convinced at last by reading "The Case for Christ" and researching the messianic prophicies. I am now convinced that Jesus is the Messiah. (When I said I won't defend christianity because I'm not done researching it, I meant I don't have sources or references.)

First, this is a pleasant turn in your string. You've shared your heart and your background...some of where you are actually coming from. There is a lot of suspicion here, because, of late, some have come pretending to be converts or potential converts, only to raise "concerns" that turn out to be standard criticisms of the church--criticisms that looked very much like your six questions.

I aplogize if I came on too strong, I'm sure you hear these questions alot. If you want to believe I am an anti-mormon bigot, who refuses to have an open mind, that's your right, but I'm not.

I don't believe in Mormonism, actually it seems very strange and mostly based on a "burning bossum" or "a knowing" But I am trying to have an open mind and see if there are answers to these questions. So far only two people on here have attempted to answer them.

You ran into a lot of skepticism about your motives based on your initial report (sounding somewhat like a reporter--but also appearing to wield an ax laden with typical criticisms. Had you started with the first paragraph of this post, you probably would have gotten a better reception.

I don't want to come on like I know it all, because I don't, I have only been reseaching Mormonism for a week.

This is quite an admission, after having created a website dedicated to the topic, and having presented yourself as having something of a journalistic curiosity.

However, regardless of what you think of me personally I am going to continue asking these questions. since no one seems to want to go to my site I will try to post all my questions on here.

Trying engaging those who have chosen to respond, while being careful to really listen to the answers. I'm a Christian clergy who's posted here for nearly a year. I believe I've made some friends, learned a lot about Mormonism, and have been privileged to share some of my own perspectives on faith as well. You do not have to compromise your faith to enter into fruitful, intelligent conversations here. But, you must listen hard, and really try to interact. Don't get caught up in trying to "win." A win here is having a good discourse in which everyone learns something new.

[Guest ApostleKnight]

PC, sometimes you're downright poetic. You'd make a great LDS missionary. Seriously though, I love reading your posts. Always something worthwhile to read. I certainly hope you continue to post for a long time.

[Snow]

I don't want to come on like I know it all, because I don't, I have only been reseaching Mormonism for a week.

This is quite an admission, after having created a website dedicated to the topic, and having presented yourself as having something of a journalistic curiosity.

You're so cordial.

I would have chosen something along the lines of "Lying in imcompatible with Christian virtues."

[prisonchaplain]

You're so cordial.

I would have chosen something along the lines of "Lying in imcompatible with Christian virtues."

That's cause it was your ox getting gored.

[babygirl]

i have an answer for you...weather you choose to believe me or not is up to you.

but i have come to learn through my searching is that ppl who dont believe how we do and dont like the way we believe, as everyone is saying attack us, so here is where the chang of the book of mormon comes in. i have learned that while in the prosses of printing the book of mormon one of the works stole pages, made changes to them and there you have it...ppl snatch at that and say oh look this one is different this one has been changed, but it was not us the lds church who changed it it was evil ppl trying to distroy us.

next ppl do the same thing to Joseph Smith, just because he is a prophet does not mean he is suddenly perfict and everything he says is truth and docturine...ppl have takin things he has said such as, man will never get on the moon and have taking that as oh look we did there for he is not a prophet...Joseph was not prophising that he was just saying it in passing and it was with other things...they take it out of context...im not sure exactily how it goes but Joseph was talking about the Civil War and that if we did this or this then because of those things we would have the second comeing before man could get on the moon...ppl change things around to make us look wrong. if you ask sincerly in you heart about it...worries like that wont matter you will know in you mind and in your heart its true...and thats whats important not what others tell you or saintin tries to put in your mind...the Lord over rules him any day.

any way thats my 2 cence if you have questions or want a resorse of where i got my info just let me know...and i'll give it to ya

[babygirl]

oh and i would just like to tell you all, that arnt we suppose to be loving and welcoming to all ppl. would christ be saying some of the things you are to this poor kid. if we really want to help him weather he is attacking or not, shouldnt we be caring and try to understand like christ would. i mean if all this kid sees is us attack him what will make him want to join the true church. im not saying he is in the right or the wrong but i do think we should show more kindness to him. okay thats all

oh and also to josh again...i really hope you can find what you are looking for, and i hope its is the truthfullness of this church, it is the greatest thing in my life. with out it i dont know where i would be...alot worse of i know that much. i love how much it helps me through my life. i know the lord loves me and he loves you too, and he wants you to be happy. so i hope you find it....Good Luck

P.S. im sry if my sp is so bad...im not a very good sp.

[lisajo]

Trying engaging those who have chosen to respond, while being careful to really listen to the answers. I'm a Christian clergy who's posted here for nearly a year. I believe I've made some friends, learned a lot about Mormonism, and have been privileged to share some of my own perspectives on faith as well. You do not have to compromise your faith to enter into fruitful, intelligent conversations here. But, you must listen hard, and really try to interact. Don't get caught up in trying to "win." A win here is having a good discourse in which everyone learns something new.

Well put Chap! Thanks your Awesome! I am Glad you are here!

oh and i would just like to tell you all, that arnt we suppose to be loving and welcoming to all ppl. would christ be saying some of the things you are to this poor kid. if we really want to help him weather he is attacking or not, shouldnt we be caring and try to understand like christ would. i mean if all this kid sees is us attack him what will make him want to join the true church. im not saying he is in the right or the wrong but i do think we should show more kindness to him. okay thats all

Respect gains respect! I don't go into a Baptist web site and try to cause trouble, You enter a house of warship and you have respect for their beleifs, same with a religions web site! How old are you anyway?

[Exalt101]

I am sorry you all feel that I am attacking you, perhaps "objective" was not the best word I could have used. I am trying to research it with an open mind, I am not trying to inform others about mormonism, If I was ,my site would be much fairer than it is (although I think it is resonablely fair)

The whole point of my site is to ask questions, not inform. (although I consider it to me very informative also)

Also, even if I was just "attacking" you, (which I'm not) I believe it is hopicritical of you to critize me for not "just accepting that we disagree" and trying to "attack" you by asking questions, when Mormons are well know for their missionary work (a fact which I admire)

Josh

Keep going Josh!

What it shows is their level of confidence.

Take care

[Snow]

Keep going Josh!

What it shows is their level of confidence.

Take care

Well now that's an intersting thought (absurd but interesting).

It's not that I think dishonest religious critics are putzes, rather that I lack confidence.

Good thinking Exalt.

[babygirl]

Respect gains respect!

lots of people showed disrespect to christ but he didnt show any less respect to them he treated them like he would one of his followers

im 19

lol, sry im new to this whole sight, guess i dont know how to use the quote thing yet. my bad

[Dr T]

Hi dancergirl,

try it like this

insert the message

but without the space after and before the "]" and "["

:)

Hi dancergirl,

try it like this [ quote ] insert the message [ /quote ] but without any spaces.

:)

[Guest MrsS]

Hi dancergirl,

try it like this

insert the message

but without the space after and before the "]" and "["

:)

Hi dancergirl,

try it like this [ quote ] insert the message [ /quote ] but without any spaces.

:)

Actually the easiest way is to highlight what you want to quote then click on the wrap in quote icon that is in the toolbar. That is the icon that is to the right of the little tree. Same goes for Bold, Italian, Underline,<strike> S</strike>trickthrough,and Color.

[Dr T]

I never knew that was an option. Thank you.

[sharyll]

I too am a Christian but I am truly seeking to know what the truth is. I know that many of the anti-mormon websites ask questions in broad terms and sometimes I feel it is a way to get Christians to stop seeking. I know it worked for me for awhile. About 9 months ago I really felt like I had to know if LDS was right or not and if it was right for me. I started my research at the www.mormon.org and got information there and then I moved on the www.lds.org which has been helpful as well. I have talked to the missionaries and what these people say is true if you do not want to talk to them anymore they will leave you alone. My husband was not happy that I was talking to the missionaries so I told them I couldn't and they stopped. They were also very polite. The missionaries were very willing to answer questions I had and even some of the wild ones I had been told by anti-mormons. I think some of it is in a forum context it is hard to see how sincere people are being and sometimes how we write something comes across totally different than what it is meant. I do hope you find what you are looking for as well as I am. Maybe going to a church service and meeting members might be a way to help you in your research.

Sharyl

[john doe]

Same goes for Bold, Italian, Underline, Strickthrough,and Color.

Hmmmm, I never knew about the Italian one. Does it just translate on foreign computers, or do you have to have Italian chosen as your computer's language?