I Have 6 Questions....

[Guest MrsS]

Same goes for Bold, Italian, Underline, Strickthrough,and Color.

Hmmmm, I never knew about the Italian one. Does it just translate on foreign computers, or do you have to have Italian chosen as your computer's language?

Good one, I think it is on all computers Italic is what I meant. Thanks for the very humorous reminder John Doe.

I should stay off the computer for the rest of this evening and get caught up on some very much needed sleep. If only the tylonal (it is spelled wrong and I really don't care right now - I am just going to go find the bottle and take some) would work and take away the constant pain in my forearms, than maybe I could sleep!

[lisajo]

LOL Me thinks this thread has been high jacked LOL, But i have seen some usefull tips on the quoting thingy LOL

[LionHeart]

I should stay off the computer for the rest of this evening and get caught up on some very much needed sleep. If only the tylonal (it is spelled wrong and I really don't care right now - I am just going to go find the bottle and take some) would work and take away the constant pain in my forearms, than maybe I could sleep!

Apparently it is easier to explain why you won't correct your spelling rather than correct your spelling?

[Guest MrsS]

<div class='quotemain'>

I should stay off the computer for the rest of this evening and get caught up on some very much needed sleep. If only the tylonal (it is spelled wrong and I really don't care right now - I am just going to go find the bottle and take some) would work and take away the constant pain in my forearms, than maybe I could sleep!

Apparently it is easier to explain why you won't correct your spelling rather than correct your spelling?

- I was way to sleepy and cross eyed to be able to read the bottle to spell it. Spell Check has yet to use that word -it wouldn't come up

to have JoshuaK

[Traveler]

Respect gains respect!

lots of people showed disrespect to christ but he didnt show any less respect to them he treated them like he would one of his followers

im 19

lol, sry im new to this whole sight, guess i dont know how to use the quote thing yet. my bad

An example of how Jesus responded to those anti to his teachings:

John 8:44 "Ye are of your father the devil, and the lust of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is not truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it."

The Traveler

[JoshuaFKon]

Hello everyone

Sorry I have not checked back in for a while....I am on VACATION! B)

Thanks to all who answered my questions so far...I will go back and read all the posts I have missed...

I have made good use of my free time on vacation...reading more Mormon books and Christian Apologetics...and frankly I have become only more skeptical.

I am very interested in The Book of Abraham, any opinions on that?

Thanks again,

God Bless

Josh

[LionHeart]

I'll tell you my opinion about the book of Abraham. It is a very fascinating bit of literature. And regardless of that anti-Mormon "proof" against it, and that nonsense about how those facsimilies were pictures of burial rituals, my belief in the truthfulness of it remains unchanged. The reasons for this, however, are of a personal matter which I prefer not go into.

Have a nice day. :)

[Princess3dward]

(1) If the Book of Mormon is true then, considering the way it was "translated" why have there been any changes made to it?

We didn't.

(2) If The Book of Mormon is true then why does it seem to copy the KJV of the Bible? Even so far as to copy the words that were added by the translators, and errors in the Hebrew?

Because those are the principles we need to know. "If an angel were to visit you, what would he say? He would probably quote scripture." Those were prophesies (sp?)

(3) Why is there no archeological evidence of the Book of Mormon's claims? And why does the evidence seem to contradict it? E.g. the animals, crops, and metalworking. www.jefflinsday.com There is!

(4) If Joseph Smith was a prophet of God, then why did some of his prophecies fail to come to pass? None of them did. They are still being fulfilled.

(5) if the other scriptures (e.g. The Book of Abraham etc.) are true why do they seem to contradict each other? The bible does too. It is just a different angle. Not contridiction. Depends on how you look at it. You need evidence for me to explain better.

(6) And how do you explain that the Book of Abraham does not read as Joseph Smith claimed it did? He never finished!

[JoshuaFKon]

Hello Desire,

Thank you for answering my questions...but I'm not sure you looked at my site http://joshuafkon.googlepages.com/questions to see me questions in more detail, I must not have made it clear, no big deal...but lets take a quick look at your answers.

(1) If the Book of Mormon is true then, considering the way it was "translated" why have there been any changes made to it?

We didn't.

Not so, there have been around 4000 changes made to the Book of Mormon, most of it small changes that don't really change the meaning of the text, however some do change the meaning. see http://joshuafkon.googlepages.com/changes

(2) If The Book of Mormon is true then why does it seem to copy the KJV of the Bible? Even so far as to copy the words that were added by the translators, and errors in the Hebrew?

Because those are the principles we need to know. "If an angel were to visit you, what would he say? He would probably quote scripture." Those were prophesies (sp?)

Ok, but note that it copies the KJV of the Bible, and you didn't address it copying errors in the KJV

http://joshuafkon.googlepages.com/copied

(3) Why is there no archeological evidence of the Book of Mormon's claims? And why does the evidence seem to contradict it? E.g. the animals, crops, and metalworking. www.jefflinsday.com There is!

I have been to that site, and I really don't see the kind of "evidence" you would expect. He says himself on the Book of Mormon evidence page:"Such evidence does not and should not equal "proof," but represents indications of plausibility that demand further attention."

You would think that there would be more then "indications of plausibility"

(4) If Joseph Smith was a prophet of God, then why did some of his prophecies fail to come to pass? None of them did. They are still being fulfilled.

Some of theprohecies said that certain things would happen within a certain amount of time. see

http://joshuafkon.googlepages.com/josephsm...#39;sprophicies

(5) if the other scriptures (e.g. The Book of Abraham etc.) are true why do they seem to contradict each other? The bible does too. It is just a different angle. Not contridiction. Depends on how you look at it. You need evidence for me to explain better.

my "evidence" is on my site, please see:

http://joshuafkon.googlepages.com/contrdictions

(6) And how do you explain that the Book of Abraham does not read as Joseph Smith claimed it did? He never finished!

Prehaps he never finished....but its not even close.

Thank you for taking the time to answer my questions though...

God bless!

Josh

[Princess3dward]

People are capable of lies.

I just tell the truth.

I don't need to visit an anti mormon site to know what it is like.

I like that 90% of what they say is pure lies, and the 10% is taking information and assuming something totally different because of it.

I will NOT visit your site and give it more hits, when it obviously does not know what it is talking about.

I know what I am talking about. I AM a member, so I have the REAL information.

If you wish to compare it to anti-mormon crap, that is your choice... but I will NOT follow you.

ps. I know you want a mormon perspective...

but you went to anti mormon materials first...

What religion are you? if any.

Jewish? I will ask a neo nazi and get back to you?

Christian no denomination? I will ask an anti christian Jesus hater.

Why would you collect lies first?

That makes you colder to the truth!

[shanstress70]

People are capable of lies.

I just tell the truth.

I don't need to visit an anti mormon site to know what it is like.

I like that 90% of what they say is pure lies, and the 10% is taking information and assuming something totally different because of it.

I will NOT visit your site and give it more hits, when it obviously does not know what it is talking about.

I know what I am talking about. I AM a member, so I have the REAL information.

If you wish to compare it to anti-mormon crap, that is your choice... but I will NOT follow you.

ps. I know you want a mormon perspective...

but you went to anti mormon materials first...

What religion are you? if any.

Jewish? I will ask a neo nazi and get back to you?

Christian no denomination? I will ask an anti christian Jesus hater.

Why would you collect lies first?

That makes you colder to the truth!

In all fairness, he is asking Mormons now.

[Princess3dward]

In all fairness, he is asking Mormons now.

And complaring it to what is said in the anti mormon site.

He is ignoring that there could be no truth behind what they are saying...

and asking us basically to credit what they are saying.

I am just being truthful.

They are lying!

[shanstress70]

In all fairness, he is asking Mormons now.

And complaring it to what is said in the anti mormon site.

He is ignoring that there could be no truth behind what they are saying...

and asking us basically to credit what they are saying.

I am just being truthful.

They are lying!

I am one of the ones who gave this poster a difficult time in the beginning, even though I'm non-LDS.

But I've changed my mind about his intentions now that he has stuck with it for so long. Usually the anti's post something and quickly leave.

When I research something, I try to get the both sides of the story. I think that may be what he is trying to do. You can't fault him because he IS trying to get the LDS side before making up his mind.

For example, if you were looking for info on a certain medication, would you go to that pharmaceutical company's website? Maybe, but you'd also hopefully go to less biased websites as well.

[Princess3dward]

I went to an anti-mormon site and I searched through it soo hard because I wanted to know why they are the way they are.. (mostly because my mother is an anti-mormon), and so all I found were lies... about Joseph Smith and the whitnesses not even existing and about our doctrine.

I don't need to see another to have that more-so confirmed. I anwsered the questions, and I am not changing my anwsers.

[JoshuaFKon]

Hello :)

Thanks to shanstress for giving me the benefit of the doubt :)

Desiré,

I don't need to visit an anti mormon site to know what it is like.

I like that 90% of what they say is pure lies, and the 10% is taking information and assuming something totally different because of it.

I really don't understand that, how can you "know what it is like" without seeing it? You can disagree with their interpretation, but they don't just make things up. The anti-mormon sites I have seen are well referenced.

I have run into this attitude a lot when talking with mormons, "if you go to an anti-mormon site your not really looking for the truth" I really don't understand that! I am a christian, I have been to many anti-christian sites, and while I disagree with their interpretation, and their conclusions, I can see where they're comming from, they raise valid points that must be addressed. I spent a lot of time researching christianity before I became a christian.

I'll be honest with you, when I started researching christianity I was afraid. "What if there is no proof" I thought, or "What if the evidence points against it?" My life would be meaningless if I became an atheist, I would spend my life fearing death. But, that's not what I found. When I reseached I saw that the "anti-christians" had many valid points. But I think the evidence is strong for christianity.

I can't understand the viewpoint that says "I won't see what the other side says" I believe if your really want to know about someone, you need to ask their detractors. I'm not saying that all mormons refuse to look at both side, many of them do, and I can respect (although I disagree) with their conclusions. But I have been told many times that if I really wanted to know about mormonism, I would ONLY research pro-mormon sites. frankly the logic I get from these people is so circular it makes me dizzy.

Desiré, I answered your "answers" before, did I lie? If so please tell me where so I can correct it.

I am not trying to "attack" you, I disagree with you yes, but I have an open mind. You will notice that I've never said anything about DNA "proving" that Mormonism is wrong, do you know why? Because I researched I am satisfied with the mormon answer.

I hope you will look at both sides.

Thank you,

God Bless

Josh

[Princess3dward]

I only read the first part because I don't have the attention span for an essay.

How can I know what it is like without seeing it? Because I get an anti-mormon influance everything I talk to my mother, and I spent a day researching anti-mormon sites. "I hope you look at both sides"

I used to hate mormons. I was ON the other side.

[JoshuaFKon]

I only read the first part because I don't have the attention span for an essay.

How can I know what it is like without seeing it? Because I get an anti-mormon influance everything I talk to my mother, and I spent a day researching anti-mormon sites. "I hope you look at both sides"

I used to hate mormons. I was ON the other side.

Desiré,

No hard feelings,

Although I don't believe that "spent a day researching anti-Mormon sites....because I wanted to know why they are the way they are..." really counts as "looking at both sides"

I'm sorry you couldn't take the time to read my whole post, sometimes I am rather long-winded...sorry.

It's always a toss-up between saying so much it geting boring and being so brief you're not clear.

As you noticed I usually go with the first option

Thanks for your time,

God Bless,

Josh

[Princess3dward]

Well, considering I was anti-mormon, I am pretty sure I have a good idea.

I couldn't care less if you believe me or not.

I could not care less if you thought everything I said was lies.

As long as I know what I am saying is truth, I am fine.

[rosie321]

JoshuaK

I'd really like for you to answer some questions for me. So far you've addressed the site almost as Joshua and an army of others behind you waiting to attack any comment made or attempt to explain things to you. Intentionally or unintentially the spirit reveals it. Speaking for LDS people in general we don't like to think that our sacred things are up for attack, are trivilized or ridiculed nor do we like the feeling that we are being set up for some kind of crusade attack. That is what it appears you are doing.

To change that negative impression. Let's take a step back. I'd really like to get to know the true JoshuaK better. Not some rehash of what other people think. You may feel that you have answered some or all of these questions in other places (Since I have been listening to your posts and have a good idea of what your answers may be). Please humor me and answer them again in the tongue of Joshua and from the heart (I'm too lazy to read through all the other posts :) ). Please no references to outside things. This is a closed book quiz so to say. Just give me your gut answer, as people just sitting and talking about things would do. In general conversation you wouldn't have a reference library at your fingertips. So please, I want to know what it is that YOU truly think about these things. ........

Are you in school? If yes, what are you studying?

Do you have a job/career? What type of work do you do?

What are some of your interests?

What are truths that you hold dear?

How do you know them to be true?

What goals are you striving for in this life?

You stated that you were christian.

what attributes do you believe each Christian must have?

What do you think would fit the definition of a non christian or antichrist?

What church or denomination do you affiliate yourself with currently?

Is church necessary in your beliefs? If so what would your "ideal" church contain?

Why are you drawn to look at mormonism?

What do you like and dislike mormonism?

Thanks. I look forward to reading your responses.

Rosie

[Dr T]

Good questions Rosie. :)

[rosie321]

Good questions Rosie. :)

While I'm really interested in JoshuaK's response anyone can feel free to answer them. :)

Maybe give JoshuaK a chance to answer first though since it is closed book .

[JoshuaFKon]

Hello Rosie,

Again I apologize to anyone/everyone it I’ve come on to strong or it seemed like I’m “attacking” anyone.

Although some of the questions are more personal then the ones I’m asking, in the spirit of friendship I will answer them.

Are you in school? If yes, what are you studying?

I am in college, I hope to major in constitutional law.

Do you have a job/career? What type of work do you do?

I have a part-time job working at a real estate office, but most of my income comes from my online store I own with my younger brother.

What are some of your interests?

Politics and religion.

What are truths that you hold dear?

My beliefs in the Free Market, Liberty, and Christianity.

How do you know them to be true?

Research, lots of research and debate. And I don't "know" them to be true. but I am 97% sure.

What goals are you striving for in this life?

I wish I knew for sure…lol I would like to work for a conservative Think tank like CATO or maybe the ACLJ

You stated that you were christian.

what attributes do you believe each Christian must have?

They must believe the Jesus is the Messiah, and that they are saved by grace through faith, I understand that these words do not mean the same thing to Mormons, I am not saying that if you say a little pray you are “saved” and can do whatever you want, but, you can’t be saved by “good works”

What do you think would fit the definition of a non christian or antichrist?

Someone who does not share the beliefs of a Christian would be a “non-christian” as for an antichrist, I don’t know. I just want to be clear here about something, I don't know if mormons are christian or not, we use the same words but they seem to have different meanings...I leave that to you.

What church or denomination do you affiliate yourself with currently?

I don’t really have a church or denomination at the moment. Although I do read the Bible and listen to tapes and study.

Is church necessary in your beliefs? If so what would your "ideal" church contain?

No, church is not necessary, although it is good. My ideal church would share all my beliefs.

Why are you drawn to look at mormonism?

Many people have asked me "Why Mormonism?" or "What do you have against us?"

I do not have anything against anyone. Let me tell you how I started researching Mormonism...

It was a dark and stormy night.....(actually It was a very nice night, but I'm going to take some poetic license here) I was online surfing, bored. again. As I was looking for something, anything, to do I came across a question posted on Yahoo Answers by a young Mormon. She asked if anyone had any questions about Mormonism? Now I have never really looked into any other religions other than Christianity, I really had no idea what Mormonism was about. I had the idea that they were not "christian" but I didn't know why. So out of a combination of bordom and couriosity and answered the question. "What is the difference between Mormonism and Christianity?" She replied promply and told me about "The Book of Mormon" I was intrigued. After disscussing Mormonism for a couple of weeks, and reseaching both the Pro and Anti Mormon sites, I found 6 questions that she could not answer to my satisfactioin, neither could any other the Pro-Mormon sites such as Jefflinsay (my favorite) or FAIR, etc...So because I love debating and plus this was a very interesting subject. I started asking these questions on Yahoo Answers in hope of different answers. However the responses I got either told me that (1) It is a matter of Faith alone. or (2) same common flawed (in my opinion) answers. or (3) my questions were not referenced and if I was going to "attack" mormons I needed to list my souces. #1 and #2 were not that helpful, but #3 was vaild, so I bulid a website listing my questions. www.allaboutjoshua.com (soon to be www.thequestfortruth.org)

I have spent a great deal of time and money to reseach Mormonism, I have bought books, DVD's, and asked lots of questions to get LDS perspective.

I am very thankful to that girl because not only have I researched Mormonism, but I also spent a lot of time/money to research my own faith to see if it meets the standards I set for mormonism. I am pleased to say that it does.

What do you like and dislike mormonism?

I dislike that it appears to be based on lies. (no offense, I could be wrong) I like the strong moral character of mormons, I wish Christians had the same high standards

Hope that helps.

If you have any more questions I would be happy to answer them.

Josh

[Ray]

Hi Josh,

How you doin’? How are you coping under all of this scrutiny? I’m happy to see you’re still here. And in the interest of trying to help us be one, I have some thoughts which have helped me know God.

First, while investigating a topic, (like the (LDS) religion or “Mormonism”, for instance), it usually helps to come up with one important question regarding a topic and then keep asking that question until one can arrive at the point where one can truthfully say one has gained the knowledge of all truth desired in regards to that question. Otherwise one could get stuck and stay stuck on smaller questions without really understanding the topic.

Or in other words, instead of asking 6 questions on a topic one is interested in learning more about, in my experience it usually works out better when one tries to come up with only one question… a question which when answered truthfully would help one to know more about what one truly desires to know than one could have known by simply sharing what they already think or asking many less important questions, with the understanding that one can always ask more questions after the first question gets answered truthfully to one’s personal satisfaction.

For example…

Joseph Smith and many other people claiming to be prophets of God said, and keep saying, that the Book of Mormon was the most correct of any book on earth and the keystone of our (LDS) religion, and a man would get nearer to God by abiding by its precepts than by any other book.” (see the Book of Mormon, Introduction)…

So, if that is true, as they say it is true, then “Mormonism” stands or falls on that book.

So, with that knowledge, one could propose the idea that one very important question on this topic is:

Was <and is> the Book of Mormon really true?

And examples of smaller questions regarding this topic would include:

How can the Book of Mormon be true when the Book of Mormon mentions horses and archaelogists haven’t found any bones from horses that supposedly lived back then?

Or

How can Joseph Smith really have been a true prophet of God when a lot of people said and now continue to say a lot of bad things about him?

Or

If the Book of Mormon was and is really true then why doesn’t the Bible plainly say that book would be discovered and translated in our day?

Or

Why doesn’t the Book of Mormon mention everything else we now know about that is taught in the LDS religion today?

Or

Get my point???

And btw, I’m not saying that it wouldn’t be good for one to know the true answers to the smaller questions, as long as one does someday ask the big questions, otherwise one might get stuck and stay stuck on smaller questions without really understanding the topic.

Secondly, (or what could be First, if one chooses)

It also helps to consider some thoughts about HOW all of us can know what is true and WHO we can rely on to tell us… can we rely on teachings from people who claim to be prophets of God… or can God personally give us faith (or His assurance)?

Or how can we respond when others try to tell us what we already know is not true?

Or in other words… Who is the true vine who can share the truth with all of us, and who are the true prophets (or messengers) He sends? And HOW can one know if God sends some true messengers to share what God knows to be true?

And yes, everybody, I’m back now.

If one doesn’t like it, one can run for the hills!

I’ll never stop sharing what I know to be true, nor HOW we can all know all truth. :)

[Dr T]

WB Ray,

Well written post, sir. :)

Dr. T

[Princess3dward]

Nice post Ray!

I was actually recently told a ture story about that!

The missionaries were going door to door, and a bible scholar let them in.

They enter, and ask what he wants in a church, and he said "I want it to follow everything the bible says the church of God should have." So they are like, "Okay. What do you think it should have?" And the man said, "They have to claim revelation from God" and the missionaries where like, "Our church does!" and they told of prophets and todays prophet. Than the man said,"It has to be a restored church." And the missionaries were like, yey inside, and told of the restoration. After, the man said, "The true church has to worphop on a Saturday".. and the missionaries were like... "Oh.... well, we don't, but we will come back when we can explain that to you!". They came back the next day and told how Jesus died on a Sunday, and we worship on Sundays to comemorate that. He was still like, "No... it has to worship on Saturdays." They eventually just said, "Your problem isn't with Sundays. It is with the Book of Mormon. Either it is true or it isn't." They Challenged him to read it, and he did in about a week or something like that, and decided he had no problem with Sunday worship.

"True doctrine understood changes attitudes and behaviours."