What do Christians believe?

[prisonchaplain]

My big question--one that will not likely be answered this side of eternity--is how wrong we can be and still be in relationship with Christ. The LDS teachings seem to allow a lot of room--especially if the Terrestial Kingdom is considered eternity with Christ. The added belief that after death there will be opportunities for many to embrace advancement in God's kingdom, and there is certainly plenty of room for patience, openness and grace.

My evangelical beliefs cause me to be more cautious and more eager to "help" those who seem to have embraced error. There is no more room after death, and there is only one heavenly realm.

Nevertheless, the end question is the same for all of us. How can I be in a serious relationship with Christ, be filled with and led by the Holy Spirit, and then, nevertheless, end up in grave error? And yet, Magen offers a very real observation--that some within his own wards may not truly be in right standing with God. I'd say the same about my own church.

So far, my answer is that I will not stop striving for faithful obedience, faithful service, faithful character, and faithful diligent study of God, his scriptures, his will and his ways.

[BadWolf]

Having NOT been Christian for most of my life (am LDS, now, though) and having lived in non-Abrahamic Religion (Judaism, Christianity, Islam) countries (read Asia)...

... To ME anyone who has Jesus of Nazareth of circ 0 BC/AD (ha! That gets around some sticky stuff) as a focal point in their religion IS Christian. To a lesser extent, people who believe themselves to be Jesus Christ PROBABLY fall under the Christian heading (whether they're committed, cults, etc.). A person CAN be both crazy & Christian at the same time . Similarly, if they believed they were a/the Buddha, they'd be Buddhist, Athena: Pagan, etc.

Thing is... There were HUNDREDS of offshoot Christian sects during (and immediately following the Reformation / HRMs Henry, Mary, Elizabeth, etc.. Only a fraction of them have survived today, but that doesn't make anyone not Catholic not christian. (It always cracks me up when Protestants claim Catholics aren't Christian. Ummmm... That was your parent religion more often than not. Greek & Russian Orthodox aside.

Some of the Reformation Churches (Im not digging through my school books from 10 years ago for the complete list)

- Adamites

- Adventists

- Amish

- Anabaptist

- Baptist

- Barrowists

- Behemists

- Brownists

- Callers

- Calvinists

- Diggers

- Enthusiasts

- Evangelists

- Familiasts

- Fifth Monarchists

- Griggletonians

- Lutherans

- Muggletonians

(you read that right, JKRowling UK joke that largely went over the heads of Americans)

- Presbyters

- Puritans

- Philadelphians

- Ranters

- Sabbatarians

- Seekers

- Shakers

- Socinians

- Quakers

ALL Protestant Christian offshoots.

So my view is that if you're Christian, regardless of the 'flavor' of Christian, you're Christian. The sects can say this or that one isn't / we're ghe only "real" Christians... But they're just words. Which tend to fall flat when looked at tend the lens of history & non-Christian faiths.

Edited January 15, 2013 by BadWolf
Clicked on an icon on accident! Spelling & grammar me bestest. Those mistakes stay.

[BadWolf]

Oh... The only caveat to the above:

Jesus of Nazareth circa 0 IS a focal point in Islam (as are many other New Testament AND Talmud/Old Testament things). All Muslims believe Jesus to be a prophet (along with Abraham, Noah, Mohammed, etc.). SOME believe him to be the Son of God (but no trinity) AND a prophet. Depends on what interpretation of the Qu'ran one is reading / which sect of Islam one practices. ((Just like Cheistiantiy, while there are 3 main branches, there are dozens of offshoots... And more cropping up all the time. Islam IS going through a reformation same as the Christian churches did a few hundred years ago. Pray it is not as bloody as the Christian one!))

I would not character Muslims as Christian...But they ARE one of the Religions of Abraham... And just like Christianity adopted the Old Testament, Islam adopter both old & new.

[SteveVH]

I'm Mormon, so, of course I don't go by the Trinitarian concept of Jesus Christ. But, I grew up Catholic. And the Catholic Church has been through many great schisms simply because of "man's understanding of who Christ is".

The Catholic Church has been through one schism, in 1054 A.D., not many schisms.

It is easy for us Mormons to say, I believe in Jesus Christ as Divine, therefore I must be Christian. It is not as easy for a Catholic to hear you talk about Jesus Christ coming to the Americas in such a manner and recognize you as Christian. Their Jesus Christ never did such a thing. It is not a matter of division. It is a matter of establishing who it is they put their entire faith on. To a Catholic, hearing a Mormon talk about Heavenly Father and Jesus Christ showing Themselves to Joseph Smith in the grove is the same thing as hearing somebody tell them Jesus Christ is his pet chihuahua.

While we certainly find the notion that Jesus came to America unique, but not very plausible for more than a few reasons, this is not a make or break issue. It is the same with Joseph Smith's purported heavenly visitation. We have had many Catholic saints who have been visited by Jesus, Mary and angles. That is nothing new or particularly shocking to us. Again, there are many reasons why I don't believe it, one being that so far I have counted at least eight different versions of the account of Joseph in the grove. As to who it was that visited him it varies from "the Lord" to "two unidentified personages and many angels" to "just angels" to "Two unidentified personages who looked exactly alike", to "Two personages ", to "Two personages, one has light complexion and blue eyes". Even so , this is not a make or break issue either as far as being considered "Christian".

Why the Catholic Church does not accept Mormon baptism as valid has to do completely with Mormon theology. We believe that the doctrine of the Trinity is a revealed truth from God to the Apostles and it has been taught in the Church since the beginning. It was the major distinction between Christianity and all other religions of that time. The Mormon idea of three separate and distinct gods who are one in purpose and will is, in the opinion of the Catholic Magisterium, polytheism. The idea that God was once as we are now (as opposed to a never changing God); the idea of co-eternal intelligences and matter (as opposed to God being the source of all things and the only eternal being); the idea of exaltation (as opposed to theosis); the idea of eternal marriage (as opposed to being the Bride of Christ) and, wow, how man more things...? The gulf between Mormon and Catholic theology is so great that the Catholic Church does not even consider Mormon theology to be heretical, but rather an entirely different religion altogether.

Of course, a Catholic still treats Mormons with the same respect and dignity as any child of God. It is simply too much to also assign to them the label "Christian".

Agreed.

Edited February 18, 2013 by StephenVH

[SteveVH]

Oh... The only caveat to the above:

Jesus of Nazareth circa 0 IS a focal point in Islam (as are many other New Testament AND Talmud/Old Testament things). All Muslims believe Jesus to be a prophet (along with Abraham, Noah, Mohammed, etc.). SOME believe him to be the Son of God (but no trinity) AND a prophet. Depends on what interpretation of the Qu'ran one is reading / which sect of Islam one practices. ((Just like Cheistiantiy, while there are 3 main branches, there are dozens of offshoots... And more cropping up all the time. Islam IS going through a reformation same as the Christian churches did a few hundred years ago. Pray it is not as bloody as the Christian one!))

I would not character Muslims as Christian...But they ARE one of the Religions of Abraham... And just like Christianity adopted the Old Testament, Islam adopter both old & new.

The Islamic position concerning Jesus is that he was a prophet, but not the Son of God. Islam also denies the sacrifice of Christ on the cross (they deny that he even died on the cross) and they certainly deny his resurrection. They do not, in any way, accept the New Testament. I have no idea where you got this information.

They follow the line of Ishmael, Abraham's first son who's mother was Hagar, the handmaiden of Sarah, Abraham's wife. We must remember, however, that while Ishmael was blessed and promised a "great nation" because he was of the seed of Abraham, the Lord’s covenant made clear that Ishmael was not to inherit Abraham’s house and that Isaac would be the seed of the covenant.

[Traveler]

My big question--one that will not likely be answered this side of eternity--is how wrong we can be and still be in relationship with Christ. The LDS teachings seem to allow a lot of room--especially if the Terrestial Kingdom is considered eternity with Christ. The added belief that after death there will be opportunities for many to embrace advancement in God's kingdom, and there is certainly plenty of room for patience, openness and grace.

My evangelical beliefs cause me to be more cautious and more eager to "help" those who seem to have embraced error. There is no more room after death, and there is only one heavenly realm.

Nevertheless, the end question is the same for all of us. How can I be in a serious relationship with Christ, be filled with and led by the Holy Spirit, and then, nevertheless, end up in grave error? And yet, Magen offers a very real observation--that some within his own wards may not truly be in right standing with God. I'd say the same about my own church.

So far, my answer is that I will not stop striving for faithful obedience, faithful service, faithful character, and faithful diligent study of God, his scriptures, his will and his ways.

I somewhat agree and based on past conversations perhaps I even agree a lot but I do wish to make one clarification - if what you see as being faithful allows for any deviation from the commandments - I think such persecutions is in error and requires as much or more help than other committing errors. I believe that any relationship of benefit with G-d must include that we keep his commandments.

The Traveler

[Jason_J]

The Catholic Church has been through one schism, in 1054 A.D., not many schisms.

Actually, there indeed have been more than one schism. For one, in addition to the Orthodox/Catholic schism in 1054 AD, there is of course the schism of the Oriental Orthodox (Coptic Orthodox, Syriac Orthodox, etc) in the 5th Century AD, accepting only the first 3 Ecumenical Councils, and rejecting the Council of Chalcedon.

[SteveVH]

Actually, there indeed have been more than one schism. For one, in addition to the Orthodox/Catholic schism in 1054 AD, there is of course the schism of the Oriental Orthodox (Coptic Orthodox, Syriac Orthodox, etc) in the 5th Century AD, accepting only the first 3 Ecumenical Councils, and rejecting the Council of Chalcedon.

Yes, I suppose that you could technically say that the separation in the 5th century between the Catholic Church and the six independent churches that make up the Oriental Orthodox was a schism, but in the great scheme of things it was barely a blip on the radar screen which is why I don't even mention it. Nevertheless I will concede the point.

The comment to which I was responding stated that there have been "many great schisms" which is not a true statement. There has been only one "great schism", which is one too many.