Daughters of Perdition?

[Suzie]

We know the Scriptures that talk about the "sons of perdition", I would like to know if you guys think that this also applies to women or a in few words....is there such a thing as "daughters of perdition"?.

Now, I am not really interested on whether or not the word "sons" could have been easily replaced or interpreted as "children of perdition" but more to the statements of Brigham Young or Joseph F. Smith when they said that there would be no daughters of perdition and the opposite views of Wilford Woodruff and other Church leaders.

Thoughts?

[Snow]

I think that's Banana Rama before they changed their name.

[Just_A_Guy]

Suzie, this is one of those rare events where GospeLink 2001 completely fails me. For background's sake, can you point me to a couple of quotations on the matter from the authorities cited?

Off the fly, I would venture to guess that ability to become a child of perdition hinges on the strength of one's prior testimony. I don't think having held the priesthood is a prerequisite.

[Guest mormonmusic]

In Canada, it's definitely children of perdition, to be gender neutral. Same with Norway. In the United States, sons of perdition seems to be OK still.

[mikbone]

2nd hit on Google

Plan of salvation/Sons of Perdition/Can women be "Sons of Perdition" - FAIRMormon

[rameumptom]

I think it is just as easy for a woman to fully oppose Christ as a man. I cannot believe that 1/3 the host of heaven that followed Satan were 100% men.

And if there truly is agency, then women must be able to choose to reject Christ and embrace Satan.

So, given that I believe women will receive the same great reward as mankind, and has the same level of risk for achieving godhood, they must equally share the risk of becoming children of perdition.

[FunkyTown]

There are three things I am sure of:

1) Hoosier cares about the plight of the working class.

2) dorave says he's a socialist.

3) Outer Darkness is scary.

I'd rather nobody go. Not Satan. Not Hitler. Not Caine. Eternity is really, really scary. Being unconscious for eternity is just as scary a concept as being out of God's light for eternity. Because it's eternity. I'd go with FAIR on that, and for those who you think might be at risk, warn them regardless of sex.

[livy111us]

Joseph Smith's father--in his capacity as Patriarch of the Church--warned against becoming a "daughter of perdition" through apostasy. (H. Michael Marquardt, comp., Early Patriarchal Blessings of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints [salt Lake City: The Smith-Pettit Foundation, 2007], 106).

Wilford Woodruff, George Q. Cannon, Apostles (1893) - "That there will also be daughters of perdition there is no doubt in the minds of the brethren" (MH: EX, 795).

Joseph F. Smith (Conference Report, April 1916, 3)

"The devil knows the Father much better than we. Lucifer, the son of the morning, knows Jesus Christ, the Son of God, much better than we, but in him it is not and will not redound to eternal life; for knowing, he yet rebels; knowing he yet is disobedient; he will not receive the truth; he will not abide in the truth; hence he is Perdition, and there is no salvation for him. The same doctrine applies to me and to you and to all the sons and daughters of God who have judgment and knowledge and are able to reason between cause and effect, and determine the right from the wrong and the good from the evil and who are capable of seeing the light and distinguishing it from the darkness."

Melvin J. Ballard, Sermons and Missionary Services of Melvin J. Ballard, 255-57.

"[God] has other sons and daughters who do not even attain unto the telestial kingdom. They are sons of perdition out with the devil and his angels, and though the Father has grieved over them, He still has not the power to rescue and save them because He gave them free agency, and they used that in such a manner that they have shut themselves out from His presence. But He is justified. He has performed His full duty by them."

Rodney Turner ("The Farewell of Jesus," Studies in Scripture, Vol. 5, endnote #20)

"Satan is called perdition. (D&C 76:26.) Therefore, all who yield to his enticings and die in their sins are sons (or daughters) of perdition and will have to suffer in hell for a given length of time. (Moses 7:37-39.) The risen Christ compared Nephite apostates to Judas: 'For they are led away captive by him [satan] even as was the son of perdition; for they will sell me for silver.' (3 Ne. 27:32.) Those Gentiles who deny Christ 'shall become like unto the son of perdition, for whom there was no mercy.' (3 Ne. 29:7.) 'No mercy' means they must bear the full weight of divine justice (the wrath of God or hell) before being saved. They are temporary sons or daughters of perdition as opposed to those who, failing to ever repent, are termed the "filthy still" (D&C 88:35, 102) and are consigned to the fullness of the second death (D&C 29:27-30, 41)."

Rodney Turner, "The Prophet Nephi," in Monte S. Nyman and Charles D. Tate, Jr., eds., First Nephi: The Doctrinal Foundation, 90.

"Between now and the last judgment, billions of men and women will be transferring their memberships from one church to the other! Those who repent, bow the knee, and confess that Jesus is the Christ will be numbered with the church of the Lamb of God (Mosiah 27:31; D&C 76:110-11).

Those who absolutely refuse to repent will remain 'filthy still'; they will retain their memberships in the church of the devil. They are sons and daughters of Perdition, suffering the damnation of the second death. (Alma 12:12-18; D&C 88:35.)"

[Seminarysnoozer]

There are three things I am sure of:

1) Hoosier cares about the plight of the working class.

2) dorave says he's a socialist.

3) Outer Darkness is scary.

I'd rather nobody go. Not Satan. Not Hitler. Not Caine. Eternity is really, really scary. Being unconscious for eternity is just as scary a concept as being out of God's light for eternity. Because it's eternity. I'd go with FAIR on that, and for those who you think might be at risk, warn them regardless of sex.

I missed something here, being cast out equals unconsciousness? I never heard that before. Or am I not following what you are saying correctly?

[rameumptom]

Yeah, I wondered somewhat about that, too. Just because a person is in perdition, does not make them unconscious. It simply means they have no glory.

[Dravin]

I think he might be referring to separate states, at least I would be inclined to parse spending eternity out of God's light to be outer darkness, and he compares it with the unconscious for eternity state.

But yeah, chalk me up as one who isn't sure what he's saying too.

[MarginOfError]

There are three things I am sure of:

1) Hoosier cares about the plight of the working class.

2) dorave says he's a socialist.

3) Outer Darkness is scary.

I'd rather nobody go. Not Satan. Not Hitler. Not Caine. Eternity is really, really scary. Being unconscious for eternity is just as scary a concept as being out of God's light for eternity. Because it's eternity. I'd go with FAIR on that, and for those who you think might be at risk, warn them regardless of sex.

This may be one of the best posts ever!

[Guest Magen_Avot]

Originally Posted by FunkyTown

There are three things I am sure of:

1) Hoosier cares about the plight of the working class.

2) dorave says he's a socialist.

3) Outer Darkness is scary.

I'd rather nobody go. Not Satan. Not Hitler. Not Caine. Eternity is really, really scary. Being unconscious for eternity is just as scary a concept as being out of God's light for eternity. Because it's eternity. I'd go with FAIR on that, and for those who you think might be at risk, warn them regardless of sex.

This may be one of the best posts ever!

I'd just like to point out (if things are as we've been told) we already chose to distance ourselves from Lucifer. Is there any risk in going to his (and other 'agency' destroyers) aid now? ... gulp...

[Suzie]

Suzie, this is one of those rare events where GospeLink 2001 completely fails me. For background's sake, can you point me to a couple of quotations on the matter from the authorities cited?

Off the fly, I would venture to guess that ability to become a child of perdition hinges on the strength of one's prior testimony. I don't think having held the priesthood is a prerequisite.

I agree 100%. I think some of the quotes were posted on this thread. Personally, I think it's possible for a woman to become a daughter of perdition, I don't see why not. The quotes seem to merely reflect personal views since the Church hasn't taken an official position (according to FAIR).