Sacrament and Baptismal Covenants Questions

[Connie]

"In the Church, an ordinance is a sacred, formal act performed by the authority of the priesthood. Some ordinances are essential to our exaltation. These ordinances are called saving ordinances. They include baptism, confirmation, ordination to the Melchizedek Priesthood (for men), the temple endowment, and the marriage sealing. With each of these ordinances, we enter into solemn covenants with the Lord.

Other ordinances, such as naming and blessing children, consecrating oil, and administering to the sick and afflicted, are also performed by priesthood authority. While they are not essential to our salvation, they are important for our comfort, guidance, and encouragement."

LDS.org - Support Materials Chapter - Ordinances

I note that Sacrament is not listed as a saving ordinance. And it seems in these two paragraphs that they list all the saving ordinances but not all the other ordinances.

"Today we partake of bread and water in remembrance of Jesus Christ’s atoning sacrifice. This ordinance is an essential part of our worship and our spiritual development. The more we ponder its significance, the more sacred it becomes to us."

LDS.org - Support Materials Chapter - Sacrament

So i conclude that Sacrament is among the "other ordinances" rather than the "saving ordinances."

Hope that helps. :)

[Madriglace]

I don't understand how it could possibly be an essential gospel ordinance in order for one to be saved by grace - or else wouldn't the mormon people be doing it in proxy for the dead?

The mormons do baptisms, washings, endowments and sealings for the dead, and they believe that all people need this ordinances. But as far as I know they don't do sacrament for the dead.

To me, that is the answer to the question on whether or not the LDS church believes that the sacrament is necessary. Obviously, the mormon church officially does not believe it is essential for salvation and exaltation.

We are saved by grace but it is up to us to work out our exaltation (sp?) Everyone is saved however how we endure to the end will determine (for the lack of a better word) the destination. How is justice satisfied if someone works everyday of their life following the Master and the next door neighbor is a slouch and still goes the same place? Our works will be taken into account.

[cwald]

We are saved by grace but it is up to us to work out our exaltation (sp?) Everyone is saved however how we endure to the end will determine (for the lack of a better word) the destination. How is justice satisfied if someone works everyday of their life following the Master and the next door neighbor is a slouch and still goes the same place? Our works will be taken into account.

Didn't Jesus address this with the parable of the workers of the field? God will pay what he will pay, and why should we care if we work all day, and get the same amount of pay as all the other folks, regardless of how much and how long they "worked." God is the master - and will save who he will save. I don't like to put god in a box, and make limitations to who he will save and why.

Perhaps we just disagree with what it means to be saved. I understand that the LDS people believe in the whole, "saved by grace, after all you can do." I don't. And to be honest, it doesn't really make much sense to the Christian world outside of the Mormon church. But, I respect your belief, I just don't agree with it.

[Backroads]

Didn't Jesus address this with the parable of the workers of the field? God will pay what he will pay, and why should we care if we work all day, and get the same amount of pay as all the other folks, regardless of how much and how long they "worked." God is the master - and will save who he will save. I don't like to put god in a box, and make limitations to who he will save and why.

Perhaps we just disagree with what it means to be saved. I understand that the LDS people believe in the whole, "saved by grace, after all you can do." I don't. And to be honest, it doesn't really make much sense to the Christian world outside of the Mormon church. But, I respect your belief, I just don't agree with it.

I've discussed this with many people, and I really don't think there is all that much difference between the Mormon view and the standard Christian view. Mormons tend to think that Christians who believe in the full-on saved-by-grace view believe they don't have to go out and do good... yet most Christians say that doing good is extremely important and part of being a Christian. I don't think it's as simple as are-you-saved-because-you-do-good vs do-you-do-good-because-you-are-saved.

You're a NOM, right? What's the general view there?

Edited November 12, 2011 by Backroads

[cwald]

I've discussed this with many people, and I really don't think there is all that much difference between the Mormon view and the standard Christian view. Mormons tend to think that Christians who believe in the full-on saved-by-grace view believe they don't have to go out and do good... yet most Christians say that doing good is extremely important and part of being a Christian. I don't think it's as simple as are-you-saved-because-you-do-good vs do-you-do-good-because-you-are-saved.

You're a NOM, right? What's the general view there?

Perhaps you are right about Christians and the Mormon theology not being so much different. However, they (christains) probably would disagree, because we talk about "saving ordinance" that must be done on this planet in order for people to be saved, which is what this thread is dealing with. And in order to get those saving ordinances, there is a list of commandments (works) that members must follow to get into the mormon temple to get the ordinances.

As far as NOM goes, There is no "general view" of anything or any doctrine (which is why they are NOMs), accept that it is okay to "believe" and follow whatever path you feel is right and will work for you. So, I can't really speak for them. I can only speak for myself, and try to determine what pathway, whether it is the LDS path, or another, that will work for me and my family.

Edited November 12, 2011 by cwald

[Backroads]

Perhaps you are right about Christians and the Mormon theology not being so much different. However, they (christains) probably would disagree, because we talk about "saving ordinance" that must be done on this planet in order for people to be saved, which is what this thread is dealing with. And in order to get those saving ordinances, there is a list of commandments (works) that members must follow to get into the mormon temple to get the ordinances.

.

I was referring to your statement about being saved by grace (or not).

I've met very few Christians who say it's perfectly okay to not be Christlike in all things. Is that simply how they believe they should act, or is it actually necessary? (perhaps as a sign of being saved).

[cwald]

I was referring to your statement about being saved by grace (or not).

I've met very few Christians who say it's perfectly okay to not be Christlike in all things. Is that simply how they believe they should act, or is it actually necessary? (perhaps as a sign of being saved).

I don't know if Christians would say that "it is necessary." I doubt it, but that is a good question. I don't know what they would say to that. I will let someone who is not LDS answer that question.

[Blackmarch]

I know that through repentance I can receive a remission of sins, that I, through having a broken heart and a contrite spirit and doing whatever the Lord wants me to do, can be justified and sanctified and get "back on the right track." As I understand it, this should be a regular experience as we continue to become more like the Savior. If I can retain a remission of sins and all of the blessings of keeping my covenants by virtue of repentance, what then, is the principal reason that I need the sacrament?

Thank you. I always love to hear what everyone has to say. God bless.

It's so that we may be able to keep or bring back the Spirit into our lives as well as to honor the Savior.