sgallan Posted September 2, 2006 Report Share Posted September 2, 2006 Desire - Read what Maureen said. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Princess3dward Posted September 2, 2006 Report Share Posted September 2, 2006 I did, I just didn't comment on it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sgallan Posted September 2, 2006 Report Share Posted September 2, 2006 Why do you seem to be looking for a fight? What did I do that seems to have annoyed you so much? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Princess3dward Posted September 2, 2006 Report Share Posted September 2, 2006 I am looking for a fightI was just looking for undertstanding, but I don't think I will get that here. Thanks anyway. Bye! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sgallan Posted September 2, 2006 Report Share Posted September 2, 2006 What do you want to know? I'll answer pretty much anything in an honest way, and as I post as a real person I can back a lot of it up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lisajo Posted September 2, 2006 Report Share Posted September 2, 2006 <div class='quotemain'><div class='quotemain'>I joined for the punch.My friend and I make jokes about the mormon punch.. it isn't even mormon punch.. but it is at all of the social events... that it should be trade marked!Is that another thing that is only in Utah???I have no idea what "mormon punch" is.Sherbert put in sprite And a Utah thing? anyone remember jones town? jim jones? anyone...anyone? LOL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Princess3dward Posted September 2, 2006 Report Share Posted September 2, 2006 The cult? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lisajo Posted September 2, 2006 Report Share Posted September 2, 2006 The cult? LOL yup... when i think of punch thats what comes to mind LOL, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Princess3dward Posted September 2, 2006 Report Share Posted September 2, 2006 really? That is kind of creepy... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prisonchaplain Posted September 2, 2006 Author Report Share Posted September 2, 2006 ... or in other words, Dr. T. feels pretty sure that conversion does NOT happen to "on-fire believers" of various <religious> groups. Isn't that right, Dr. T? (no matter what he says, that is what he meant) And my response to that statement??? I know it's a lie. And now I'll share how I know that truth.I was "on-fire" before I joined this church, and I had already done lots of preaching, (that's what "on-fire believers" do, you know) and I attended all the services that I could. And I was getting prepared to follow the footsteps of my fathers (Dad and Granddad) into a full-time ministry of preaching for that church... to share the gospel of the Jesus Christ, of course.So there, I AM PROOF, that you what you just said is false... whether you know it now or ever will know it!Nah nah nah nah nah. p.s. Don't worry, Doc, you will recover. :)Ray, of late I've seen a Muslim convert to Christianity, an LDS person who seems on the verge of converting to evangelicalism, and I've encountered a former Nazarene pastor who converted to Catholicism. All three were going through some crisis, be it of faith or just of life. Furthermore, the Jewish phenomena I mentioned comes from several conversations with both Orthodox Jews and Messianic ones.Of course, sons of Protestant ministers become Mormons. You did. Furthermore, sometimes it just happens because someone is open-minded, and does indeed gain a greater attraction for the new faith.BUT, Ray, your the exception that proves the rule. We always hear about the high-ranking religious officials who convert, or the "on-fire zealots." Why? Because they're so rare the raise eyebrows. Also, they tend to tell great stories (have great testimonies).Now, this whole notion is, of course, IM ALWAYS HO, but I still contend that most converts from one religion to another were at a place of crisis, difficulty, or perhaps disillusionment. On the other hand, converts who had no previous religion might well have simply discovered, "Hey, what you say sounds right. When I prayed it felt right. Okay, let us proceed with my life change!" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prisonchaplain Posted September 2, 2006 Author Report Share Posted September 2, 2006 I was dating this guy who I really thought I liked (And maybe I do)..but I am not supposed to be steady dating for one...and for two, he would convert for me (WHICH IS BAD! HE IS SUPPOSED TO CONVERT FOR HIM AD GOD!)but he will never go on a mission...I dumped him for all of the reasons above...It was hard..But I do my best to keep my heart open to what God wants,and not what I want...That was really recent.. so please don't make me talk about it more.Desiree, I really appreciate your openness, your passion, and your commitment. And, I respect your commitment to only date those "of like precious faith." As a non-LDS spiritual leader, I would join your spiritual advisors on the "inside" in saying, stick to your guns. Only date those who are qualified--only those of your faith. I don't care what religion you have, 'missionary dating'* is sin. It displeases God. That it occasionally works is due to God's mercy, not His approval. Far too many believers who yoked with unbelievers could tell you better than I that it is much better to "come out from among them and be ye separate."* Missionary dating does NOT mean dating missionaries. It means dating a nonbeliever with the hopes of converting him/her. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr T Posted September 2, 2006 Report Share Posted September 2, 2006 Quick note: Ray, you said, It's not your Dad's church (even if he's a saint) because it belongs to our Lord and ALL His saints...Look at what you are saying, "It's not your dad's church" you then said "Even if he's a saint" and then contradicted yourself by saying that it belongs to the Lord "AND ALL HIS SAINTS." You say it belongs to saints and her father (even if being a saint) it isn't his church. You are talking out of both sides of your mouth sir. I like you Ray. I'm trying to nod and smile. Sometimes I have a hard time though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cutelilchikin Posted September 2, 2006 Report Share Posted September 2, 2006 I have a question for Ray. Why does it matter what you're wearing when you go to church? The person sitting in church who smells like cigarette smoke and looks like he just got off of a 3 day bender is still there searching for the truth. And it's much harder for that person to be there. The thing I'm finding in the LDS church nowadays is that they're focusing on stuff like modesty and tattoos and earings so much that they are forgetting so many important things. By constantly putting all that stuff down as "bad" you are pushing away people who are seeking truth but who wont find it because you're not focusing on God and Jesus, what the church should be based on. i admit that there is a lot of evil out there in the world, but do you think if Christ was in church, he would dislike a person more for having more than one earing or for wearing a tank top or even if they had a tattoo? Don't judge people so harshly. The church says they are trying to look less earthly by not doing all that stuff but the way they judge the people that do that stuff, they are contradicting themselves. God doesn't care what you look like, who you are, where you come from, as long as you believe in Him and His Son with all your heart and you're not out there breaking the commandments. Right now I am questioning my faith, deciding if the LDS church is for me and it's comments like the ones you made earlier that started my whole quest and make me think more and more that it isn't for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Princess3dward Posted September 2, 2006 Report Share Posted September 2, 2006 I'm not Ray, but can I try?Why does it matter what you're wearing when you go to church?Just out of respect. If you can get sunday wear, please wear it to church.The thing I'm finding in the LDS church nowadays is that they're focusing on stuff like modesty and tattoos and earings so much that they are forgetting so many important things. That is for the people who are already members, and have no tatoos. Modesty is important.By constantly putting all that stuff down as "bad"You mean, strongly encouraged you don't do...you are pushing away people who are seeking truth but who wont find it because you're not focusing on God and Jesus,Where do you live that the LDS church there doesn't focus on God and Jesus? Our church is ALL ABOUT being like them. You are focusing on a problem of the church, and ignoring everything about God and Jesus, because you are blinded with problems dressing modestly. i admit that there is a lot of evil out there in the world, but do you think if Christ was in church, he would dislike a person more for having more than one earing or for wearing a tank top or even if they had a tattoo?Jesus loves everyone equilly. We have never taught any different. He even loves the skanks... but that does not mean you should be one.Don't judge people so harshly. We don't judge people. :)God doesn't care what you look like, who you are, where you come from, as long as you believe in Him and His Son with all your heart and you're not out there breaking the commandments. So I can go out and beak the law of chastity, but as long as I believe in him.. I am saved. I can kill a few people to!!!!No one has ever regretted keeping the commandments, and that is not as easy as, "Ya Jesus.. I know your there. Now I am saved. LDS does not believe salvation is that easy.Right now I am questioning my faith, deciding if the LDS church is for me and it's comments like the ones you made earlier that started my whole quest and make me think more and more that it isn't for me.It isn't about what you can and can not do!It is about prophets and Jesus' restored church and being sealed to your family for all time and eturnity!If that isn't for you, I am very sorry to hear that.If you have been learning about Joseph smith, and know he is a true prophet like you should be if you were thinking about converting, and KNOW he was a true prophet, why would you be hung up on a problem that doesn't even exist? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoshuaFKon Posted September 2, 2006 Report Share Posted September 2, 2006 Quick note: Ray, you said, It's not your Dad's church (even if he's a saint) because it belongs to our Lord and ALL His saints...Look at what you are saying, "It's not your dad's church" you then said "Even if he's a saint" and then contradicted yourself by saying that it belongs to the Lord "AND ALL HIS SAINTS." You say it belongs to saints and her father (even if being a saint) it isn't his church. You are talking out of both sides of your mouth sir. I like you Ray. I'm trying to nod and smile. Sometimes I have a hard time though.Dr. T,At least it dosen't rhyme..... look on the bright side! :) Josh B) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr T Posted September 2, 2006 Report Share Posted September 2, 2006 Ray, In your last post about me, you ask, "Is that correct" then you say, "Whatever he says, this is what he meant" (Nod and smile for you sir) I'll leave it at that. P.C.'s 2nd to last post was what I meant. Thank you P.C.. Dr. T Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prisonchaplain Posted September 2, 2006 Author Report Share Posted September 2, 2006 <div class='quotemain'>Right now I am questioning my faith, deciding if the LDS church is for me and it's comments like the ones you made earlier that started my whole quest and make me think more and more that it isn't for me.It isn't about what you can and can not do!It is about prophets and Jesus' restored church and being sealed to your family for all time and eturnity!If that isn't for you, I am very sorry to hear that.If you have been learning about Joseph smith, and know he is a true prophet like you should be if you were thinking about converting, and KNOW he was a true prophet, why would you be hung up on a problem that doesn't even exist?Desire, maybe I can explain Chikin's point. Should an "investigator," or even a cradle Mormon who is grappling with the truth of what s/he's been raised in, one element that will help is the behavior and attitude of those who follow the faith. For example, Chikin asks, "Can this be the restored true church, if the members are all focused on how people dress, rather than on their hearts and their spiritual journey and relationship with God?The same questions could be directed towards Christians in general, toward denominations, and toward invidual congregations/wards. So, rather than seeing the challenges Chikin raises as an attack on the faith, perhaps we'd all do well to reflect on what he's said. Do we focus too much on packaging, and not enough on inward faith? Do I? Worthy questions, im always ho. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Princess3dward Posted September 2, 2006 Report Share Posted September 2, 2006 We don't focus on how people dress over spirituality. I know plenty of people totally comfortable dressing imodestly going to church. I understand the standards, so I know why they are there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr T Posted September 2, 2006 Report Share Posted September 2, 2006 We don't focus on how people dress over spirituality.Might that be better stated, "I" instead of "we"? I would guess that many people do notice/become distracted/talk about/etc. other ward member's dress. Am I wrong in that?Dr. T Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Princess3dward Posted September 2, 2006 Report Share Posted September 2, 2006 We don't focus on how people dress over spirituality.Might that be better stated, "I" instead of "we"? I would guess that many people do notice/become distracted/talk about/etc. other ward member's dress. Am I wrong in that?Dr. TNo, for the reason that we don't want them to feel inadiquate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr T Posted September 2, 2006 Report Share Posted September 2, 2006 Just because you "don't want" that doesnt mean that you "don't." Realism not idealism. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Princess3dward Posted September 2, 2006 Report Share Posted September 2, 2006 Just because you "don't want" that doesnt mean that you "don't." Realism not idealism.I.. as in ME, don't, until someone told me I did. That IS realism.I have VERY FEW LDS friends. I don't know what THEY talk about.. but I don't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr T Posted September 2, 2006 Report Share Posted September 2, 2006 I.. as in ME, don't, until someone told me I did. So you thought you didn't but actually did?I'm confuzzed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Princess3dward Posted September 2, 2006 Report Share Posted September 2, 2006 You! Just now! I complained! YES! TO YOU! JUST NOW! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr T Posted September 2, 2006 Report Share Posted September 2, 2006 Are we talking about the same thing, Des? You really lost me. You did! Just now-LOST ME!!! LOL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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