cutelilchikin

Ray- I'll write you personally to expand on the stuff I said. I don't want to tell the whole world this stuff. Maybe you'll understand me more after you hear some of my experiences. If not, we'll agree to disagree. I'm not trying to debate with you. I simply want to understand your thinking and everyone else on this site as far as that goes. Prison Chaplain- Thank you for understanding exactly what I was trying to say. Sometimes it's so hard to get out the exact words you want to use cuz emotion gets in the way. You're a doll!! chiKin

Actually, Desire, anything you get used to doing in your life is a habbit. An addiction is something that controls you. I get the cutting part. But it's not an addiction if you do it simply because you're bored. People who are addicted to things think they CANNOT live without it. They actually have physical symptoms of withdrawal. I'm not saying that what you went through isn't bad. It's hard to break habbits. Everybody has THOSE!!! Even if they don't want to admit it. I'm 21 years old and I grew up with two parents and the majority of relatives who are addicted to alcohol and drugs. Addiction isn't impossible to overcome if you want to. But a lot of addicts don't seem to realize how much of their life it really controls. Sexual addicts don't become addicts because their wives/husbands aren't putting out. They start experimenting and they like it. One thing leads to another, and then another until it's full blown addiction and nothing the wife/husband does can help. Porn, just like hollywood, gives people a false sense of what a sexual relationship is supposed to be about. A lot of porns involve situations that most partners are NOT willing to try and the viewer gets frustrated because they've gotten a taste for it. I'll explain the process of addiction for drugs and try and put into into perspective with sexual addiction because the process is the same. Let's say you've got a person who decides they want to try perscription painkillers. They do and they find it enjoyable. So they keep taking it. One day though, the same dose they started taking in the beginning, isn't enough to give them their "high" so they take more. This is called drug-intolerance. Pretty soon, the person taking the drugs is taking the harder drugs, trying to acheive that original high. And when they can't get it, they take more and more. Pretty soon, they're taking so much, they have to go to dozens of doctors to get the perscriptions or they're on the street trying to buy it. In their progress to buy these drugs, they are doing illegal things that they never would have thought they would do before they started taking drugs. Now I'll put it in the sexual addiction one. Sexual addiction can start with looking at a Victoria's Secret catalog. It's like that first dose of painkillers. It gives you that little "high". When I say "high" I mean that little feeling the person gets. (not necessarily high like when you take drugs). If the person likes the catalog, they'll keep looking at it. Then one day, it's just not enough skin showing so they go pick up a Playboy magazine. (sorry if I'm generalizing by saying it only happens with men, because I know it doesn't. but there aren't a lot of popular brands of women's porn which I can just spout off the top of my head). Then one day, the one issue a month of Playboy isn't enough so they start looking for other places to find it. Now they're looking at sex videos on the internet and going into sex joints and strip clubs or wherever they can find that "high". And all the while they're doing this, their spouse is in the dark. They probably have a healthy sex life but for an addict, they want MORE. it's always the wanting of more that leads to addiction. The addict in their worst will probably start getting picked up by the police for doing illegal things. It's not like the addicts decided they were going to become addicted to something. I think it's something in their genetics or how they were raised and self-control has a lot to do with it. Just because you drink alcohol, doesn't make you an alcoholic. Just like, just because you look at pornography doesn't not make you a sex addict. It's the people that can't control their intake of whatever it is. I know first hand how hard it is to deal with people close to you being addicts. I wish everyone who ever has to deal with this the strength enough to do it. Addiction isn't just hard on the person who has the addiction, it's hard on every person they are close to.

It is so good to hear that your grandbabies are safe. Your daughter will keep going until she hits her absolute rock bottom. I just hope that it doesn't hurt you too bad. It's her life, not yours. Nothing you do can help her now. It'll all be up to her. Just worry about loving those beautiful little girls. They need you more now than ever. Most people don't think that kids remember the first 5 years of their life, but they do. I am living experience of that. Those little girls need someone stable in their life that can show them everyday that they are loved and you are PERFECT for that role! I hope all is well with you. I think the only reason I come on this sight is to see how you're doing, Winnie. I've become attatched! Even through all your trouble, you keep your head up and you say stuff that cheers me up. Have a good day! chiKin

little gnome buddies

high on protein

I was standing in the bathroom, doing my hair. My Grandpa had the news on in the front room and yelled for my Grandma to come see what was happening. Of course, my 15 year old curiosity got the better of me and I had to go watch too. I don't remember the first time I saw it. It was a blur. All through school that day, all the teachers had the news on and it kept replaying. It reminded me of when Columbine happened and how everyone became horrifyingly obsessed with watching those scenes over and over again. It's disturbing to a 15 year old mind to find out that attacks can happen on your home land. And then that was all everyone talked about for months. It's sad that it takes something that big for people to start respecting their country, and I think today, a lot of people have forgotten how it felt. For a while, we stood united. It was beautiful. I just hope something like that doesn't happen again.

spiked with Mt. Dew

Ray, I did not base my quest solely on YOU! Get over yourself! You are not the only member of the church who speaks like that. Where in the bible does it say NOT to have more than one earring? And where in the bible does it say that God will put you in Heaven just cuz you wear nice clothes to church? There's a whole lot more to it than that. At one point, I think I believed everything I was taught by the missionaries. But the more I think of it, I find it hard to believe in prophets. I don't know what it is. I think if God really wanted me to do or not do something, He would find a way to tell me. Personal revelation and all that. I have tried praying, I've tried reading my scriptures, but I don't get any answers. I wanted to believe so bad at times that when I couldn't, I felt horrible. I still feel horrible. It just feels like something is missing from the LDS church. And right now, I'm trying my hardest to figure out what kind of person I want to be. I don't need people I don't even know telling me that God loves them more because they don't show their shoulders to people or that they only have one hole in their ear. The last ward I was really active in was AWESOME!! I could come to church and not worry what I looked like. They taught about God and Jesus and love and family. They knew I was trying my best and didn't judge me for my attempts to be unique in a state full of people who act the same. Have you ever been to Utah? The church is a lot different there. I realize that not all of the members are like the ones in Utah. But I'm trying to get my beliefs straight right now and I get kinda angry when people start focusing on other stuff besides our Savior and what He did for us. I am not going to base my converting out of the LDS church on YOUR opinions. IF i do decide that it isn't the church for me, it will be based solely on my ability to believe the teachings. ALL of the teachings. I don't think I can go to a church every week when I feel like the beliefs and teachings are constantly contradicting themselves. I'm not asking for proof, I just want to FEEL it is true. In the 14 years I've been a member, I don't think I've ever had that certainty. And every year that passes, the confusion grows. When I asked you that question, I simply wanted to know why you put appearance up there as one of your major points. That's all I wanted to know. I'm sure you believe in God and Jesus, if you didn't, you probably wouldn't be a member of that church. I wasn't judging you, I was questioning your comments. HUGE difference. I think if you had been through everything I have, you would have a hard time with the church also. If you would like me to expand on that, then write me personally. I'm not gonna share my childhood with the whole world, but I think it would help you understand where I'm coming from. chiKin

Thank you everyone for your replies. I liked a lot of what you had to say and I think it will really help me. I've been reading on a lot of the subjects, and that's helping me too. But I'm not sure it's helping me to stay with the church. I think the best thing for me, at least for a while, is to read books and scriptures and study the beliefs part. I need to seperate myself from the people part of it while I figure out if I really do believe the teachings of the church. I think if I figure that out, it will make it easier for me to make the next move (either going back to church, or choosing a different church). Either way, thanks for your support!

I was simply trying to ask a question. I'm not trying to convert to the LDS church. I've been a member for over 10 years and it seems like a lot of the church meetings from young womens and up criticize people who have tattoos and piercings as "bad". they make it seem like they aren't equal to the members who dont' have that. My point was, why would you criticize someone's appearance when the important thing is their faith and belief in God and Jesus. Isn't that what religion is about. Faith and belief? Not in the way you dress. And I believe the churches who are saying, "come as you are" are saying that they wont judge you based on your appearance. they want you to come and have faith in Jesus. I believe I asked Ray the question Desire, and I really wanted to know what his answer was because he is a convert and he is the one who made those comments that brought my question. I lived in Southern Utah from the time I was seven until I was 20. One time I went in for a Birthday interview and I was wearing a tank top. This shirt was not overly revealing. It was just a sleeveless shirt. It showed my SHOULDERS and that's it. But the Bishop spent most of the time I was in his office telling me that I was gonna end up falling off the deep end. And to point out something, I still wear sleeveless shirts, and I have not fallen off the deep end. I am questioning the beliefs of the church which the SCRIPTURES tell me to do. And even if I come to the conclusion that the LDS church is not for me, it will not make me a bad person. Even if I did fall off the deep end, I would not be a bad person. hate the sins, not the sinner. I may make some bad choices, but who are you to judge me and say that I don't have faith and that I'm not an equal person in the eyes of God? What if that "skank" as you put it, has a reason for the way she is. What if she has never been taught about the law of chastity? I never said you could go kill someone. That is breaking the commandments and if you read what i wrote, I said "God doesn't care what you look like, who you are, where you come from, as long as you believe in Him and His Son with all your heart and you're not out there breaking the commandments." My problems I've had with the church isn't what you can and can't do. It's the fact that some members make it seem like if you do some of that stuff, you're going straight to hell. And they focus on that. They judge people by their appearance and by their sins. Their sins are between them and God and the church members have no right making them feel like they don't belong at church because they've made mistakes. When Joseph Smith brought about the church, he did not judge people by their appearance. Or even by the sins they've commited. I don't care how many people a person has slept with, if they're trying to change your ways, who are we to judge if they are good or not? Sinning does not make a person bad, it just means they've made some bad decisions. That is probably going to be the reason I will convert to out of the LDS church. Yes, I still believe what I was taught by the missionaries, but I don't see the point in going to church every week when they focus on stuff that doesn't change a person's faith or their beliefs and will not matter in the big picture.

and hot fudge

I don't think the FLDS are being persecuted. In this room, the Mormons are simply saying they don't want to be put in the same place as the FLDS because they give everyone (as in humankind) a bad name. This is not based on their religion. It's based on all the illegal, disgusting acts they commit each and every day. I don't care if you say the Mormons had polygamy in the 1800's or that on paper, we still practice it. It's a whole lot different than the FLDS. In every single marriage of the Mormon people, not one person has been forced into it. Do you GET THAT Jason? I know you think that we are criticizing polygamy. For one thing, I look at it the same way I do homosexuals. It's none of my business what they do and how they live their life, until they break the law or abuse women and children. I want to be a cop. How am I supposed to overlook all those perverse things? As I said earlier, there are a lot of people who live the polygamist livestyle and they are very content. They aren't out there breaking laws or abusing children and hiding it. They are actually good citizens who work hard for what they have. A lot of the women in the FLDS are very nice, but they have been brainwashed into thinking it's alright for the men to treat them that way. And I never said I was an expert. I've based my opinion on several personal experiences. Don't spout your information and put down mine as not real because it wasn't in the so-called history books. I lived in close proximity to the FLDS people for over 5 years. I saw the hatred in the way they looked at us "sinners"

of delicious chocolate

I didn't just end up in the hospital. I ended up with a 3 day stay in the psyche ward under suicide watch. So I do know what you mean. Somedays I just thought that if I died, maybe someone would care. That maybe my sister would care enough to take care of her kids. I've realized that nothing I do will solve her problems. And the only thing I can do that will ever do anything for my precious nieces is to live my life the best that I can. Show them that even coming from the background we all do, you don't have to choose what their mom did. You've raised your daughter. It's time for her to go out there on her own and make decisions and you can't let it get to you. My Grandma is my hero and she has repeatedly told me that when it hurts too bad and you can't do anything to change it, say, "To hell with it." That's what she's done with my sister. I seriously think that if my Grandparents hadn't have moved to New Mexico when they did, my Grandma would have died. She was making herself sick with all my sisters problems. You just need to seperate yourself from the problem. Make your life the best it can be and maybe someday your daughter will come around, but don't ruin your life for hers. It's your time now!! chiKin

Sure, why not? I don't get offended easily. . . Hope it doesn't start a controversy on here tho!!!

I have a question for Ray. Why does it matter what you're wearing when you go to church? The person sitting in church who smells like cigarette smoke and looks like he just got off of a 3 day bender is still there searching for the truth. And it's much harder for that person to be there. The thing I'm finding in the LDS church nowadays is that they're focusing on stuff like modesty and tattoos and earings so much that they are forgetting so many important things. By constantly putting all that stuff down as "bad" you are pushing away people who are seeking truth but who wont find it because you're not focusing on God and Jesus, what the church should be based on. i admit that there is a lot of evil out there in the world, but do you think if Christ was in church, he would dislike a person more for having more than one earing or for wearing a tank top or even if they had a tattoo? Don't judge people so harshly. The church says they are trying to look less earthly by not doing all that stuff but the way they judge the people that do that stuff, they are contradicting themselves. God doesn't care what you look like, who you are, where you come from, as long as you believe in Him and His Son with all your heart and you're not out there breaking the commandments. Right now I am questioning my faith, deciding if the LDS church is for me and it's comments like the ones you made earlier that started my whole quest and make me think more and more that it isn't for me.

Thanks ALmom. You freakin rock! I think what she's trying to say is that, we're not dead yet. You're father isnt' married to three women at the same time HERE on earth. And there's no guarantee that he will be after he's dead. In each of the marriages your dad had, they were done by two consenting adults for different purposes than the FLDS have when they get married. We're not talking about polygamists in the whole. In this whole discussion, we've been talking about Warren Jeffs and the FLDS church. On one of the many specials I happened to see on TV, there are actually some pluaral marriages where everyone involved in the marriage, had consented to the marriage. The women worked and actually had rights. The husband treated his wives with respect and like they were actually human and had intelligence of their own. The wives were all very happy. But the problem with the FLDS is that the women have been brainwashed into thinking the way they live is how it's supposed to be. It's like the children you hear about who are raised in a family where abuse is a constant thing. They grow up thinking that is how all family's are because they don't KNOW any better. And a lot of the women who want to get out, don't know how they'd survive. They take abuse everyday from the men in their lives. Not only their husband, but their church leaders and the leaders of their community (which happen to be the same people). They feel like if they left, they wouldn't know how to take care of themselves because the men tell them daily that they aren't intelligent and without the husband, they would be nothing. If that's not considered abuse, I don't know what is. These kids who ran away that I was talking about aren't anti's. For the first years of their lives, they had no choice. That's like telling me a kid who runs away from parents who abuses them is just anti-abuse. Maybe the reason the ex-FLDS hate the polygamist lifestyle is for a reason. Could you live your life like that? Knowing that they are hiding the abuse of women and children? Consider the victims in this situation. . . I lived in the same place as Strawberry Fields. I saw how the women and children acted. They would walk around with their heads down like they don't matter. The men know what's going on and they help it continue. Everyone has a bad view of Polygamist because most of the ones they show on tv are the ones who are perverse and break the law. People believe what they see. The Polygamists who live a normal life don't make a good story. Mormon's don't want to be associated with the bad name that polygamy has gotten in the last couple years because they don't like the disgusting behavior of the "newsworthy" polygamists. To Jason: I didn't base my opinion that they hate the Mormons on just one comment on a tv program. I've based it on many conversations I've had with ex-FLDS and on the many people I've seen on the tv specials. And by the way, you sound just like all those anti-Mormon materials you mentioned. I admit I don't know everything about the church history, especially polygamy, but I do know for a fact that the reason the Mormons had more than one wife is far different than the FLDS. If their group actually did what they said they were there to do, then there probably wouldn't be as many arguments against them. They are frauds. The original teachings of the church did not include forcing children to marry older men and ignoring their cries for help. The Mormon church is far from perfect. But that can be said about any church. The reason no church is perfect is because there are PEOPLE involved. There was only one person in the history of the entire earth that was perfect and even if we all tried to be like Jesus, there's no way we could all be perfect. It's NOT possible. The biggest problem with the FLDS is that when they say they are trying to go back to the beliefs of Joseph Smith, it sounds good, but people got in the way. People like Warren Jeffs and Tom Green. Their version of what Joseph Smith taught and what he really taught is quite warped. You only need to hear them preach to know that.

Top 10 Marriage Proposal Rejection Lines I can't marry you because. . . 10. I'm waiting for a missionary (old one, but still works) 9. I just put in my mission papers 8. my salary wont support both of us 7. being single gives my mother something to live for 6. I was hoping to do something meaningful with my life 5. I already have enough laundry to do, thank you! 4. I'm waiting until I get to be your age to get married 3. I have 3 more proposals to go to reach 100 2. Is this a test of my faith? 1. Ha! Top 10 ways to get a high councelor to end his talk 10. Look at your watch, shake it, hold it up to your ear 9. Yawn, stretch, curl up on the bench and take a nap 8. Start snoring loudly 7. Say "amen" loudly after every sentence 6. Throw your kids' cheerios up in the air and try to catch them in your mouth. 5. Throw your kids' cheerios at the high councelor 4. Lead your row in a chinese fire-drill 3. Pull the fire alarm and lead the entire congregation in a real fire drill 2. Raise your hand and object 1. Take your hymnbook and start singing the closing song Top 10 reasons to feed the missionaries 10. Good way to get material for your talk next week 9. Good way to use up outdated food storage items 8. Give you someone to watch the kids while you fix dinner 7. Meal is tax deductible 6. Good way to get rid of those week-old leftovers 5. Can you say "free dishwashers?" 4. Good excuse to order pizza 3. Good way to "one-up" the Smiths 2. Better company than the home teachers 1. Who else will eat your cooking? Top 10 signs you are not attending a Mormon church 10. All the men have long hair, all the women have short hair 9. No announcements 8. Meetings all start on time 7. Nobody shakes your hand 6. No jello salad served at the activities 5. No minivans in the parking lot 4. Meeting ends on time 3. No cheerios in the pews 2. Greeter asks, "smoking or non-smoking" 1. Bishop reports 100% home teaching last month Top 10 books Mormons never read 10. Potluck dinners without jello 9. Get your eagle scout before your 14th birthday 8. On time arrival 7. Monthly home teaching 6. Proper rotation of food storage 5. How to hold short meetings 4. You can vote democrat 3. Friendly basketball tournaments 2. Keeping neighborhood secrets 1. Throw away boxes after you move Top 10 excuses for being late to seminary 10. "I had to buy the donuts" 9. "The parking lot was full" 8. "Family scripture reading" 7. "The carpool didn't stop by" 6. "Class doesn't start on time anyways" 5. "I had to put the jello in the refrigerator" 4. "I had to fill out my tithing slip" 3. "I just fell asleep 20 minutes ago" 2. "I had a doctor's appointment" 1. "I met a high counselor outside the church" Top 10 signs your primary teacher has gone off the deep end 10. Instead of putting cut-outs on felt boards, she staples them to the backs of children 9. Assigns kids 2 1/2 hour talks 8. Has children write letters to Barney the Dinosaur at Christmas 7. Nursery snack is a cup of Maxwell House and a bearclaw 6. Teaches show tunes during sharing time 5. She's made a nice little home for herself in the baptismal font 4. the halter top and stiletto heels 3. Has announced her engagement to Wilford Woodruff 2. Claims she doesn't like jello 1. Accuses the bishop of being a powerful robot from the future sent back in time to kill her. Enjoy everyone!

I think the wife of sex addicts actually know the difference between occasionally looking at porn and sexual addiction. And if the husband is hiding his activities, that's also a sign of addiction. drug addicts don't come out and tell their spouses their addicted to drugs. they try to hide it. I'm not saying just cuz they lie, it means they're addicts, but it's one of the first signs. Just like when a husband starts lying about where he's been. that's a first sign that he's cheating. i'm not saying it means he's cheating. it's just a sign. A spouse is someone who is supposed to be as close to that person as someone can get both emotionally and physically. The intimacy they share makes it so they know each other better than anyone else knows them. A spouse has instincts that tell them something is wrong. We shouldn't over dramatize the problem, but we shouldn't say that it's not there. You can't know that. And you can't possibly know how that person feels. I think the support group would be wonderful and i wish you goodluck in your marriage, Doodlebug!!

Thanks for making that clear. It still ticks me off that we get associated with them. But I've learned to laugh and joke about the polygamist questions I get. And after the jokes, I can calmly explain that polygamy no longer exists in the LDS church. It goes a lot further than getting defensive. Oh well. Life goes on, right?!

There comes a point in every relationship that is bad where one has to draw the line. It's one of the hardest moves a person has to make, but it has to be done for the sake of their sanity. My sister is a lot like that. For the last 6 or 7 years I've been watching my sister throw her life away. It's one thing for her to make those decisions for herself when it only affects her, but now she has two beautiful daughters that I would do anything for. And every bad decision she makes affects them. I see how much it has hurt them and it hurts me too. That's why I had to move away from her. I actually ended up in the hospital because I was so depressed from watching it everyday. I'm glad you made that move before you ended up in a place like I was in. Good luck with that. I hope one day she'll realize what a great Mom she has because her Mom cares about her. Smile and know that you are admired!

I got lost

We're all getting a little defensive here. . . Maybe we should stop this discussion. Sorry if I sound mean on my replies. But I lived in a town in Utah very close to where the FLDS are based and they all used to come to that town and work and shop and do all that stuff. That's where a lot of the runaways end up. I was trying to stick up for the victims in that cult. And yes, I consider it a cult because it's based on control. And now I'm wondering what they'll do now that they're "prophet" was captured. . .

Have you ever been around the FLDS? Have you encountered them daily? I doubt it. Let's get one thing straight. These people don't have more than one wife because the Lord commanded it. They have multiple wives so they have more women to control. I have spoken to many of the youth who have run away from the polygamist life style. They don't just have more than one wife. They have very perverse theories on how everyday life should be lived. Their right and wrong does not follow the laws of the land. If you're going to bring the muslims into this, then we can talk about the extremist. Not all FLDS want to get back to basic beliefs just as not all muslims just want to practice their religion. The FLDS condemn anyone who tries to get free of the power the "prophet" holds over them. They are not allowed to talk to their families and are not spoken of again. I'm not saying all of the FLDS are bad. That's generalizing. But Warren Jeffs is a horrible person. He forces teenage girls to marry men who they are closely related to. Think how you would feel if you were forced to marry your uncle or someone that is that closely related to you. You would have to procreate with that person also. That's sick. Don't even try to compare them to the Mormon polygamist. Polygamy was alright in the 1800's but it was outlawed and the church recognizes that. Maybe you should too. And on the 14 year olds, when Joseph Smith was prophet and lived, it was the 1800's. My Grandma got married when she was 16 and that was in the 1940's. It was the norm to marry young back then because they also died younger. Read your history book, honey! There is a huge difference between back then and now (like electricity, indoor plumbing, the internet). Their lives were so different than ours are. They had harder lives. Joseph Smith didn't force his wives to marry him or force any of the other women to marry any of the men. He didn't force his daughters to marry his brothers. He didn't hide child abuse. He didn't preach one thing and go out and do exactly what he was preaching against. Don't talk on a subject that you have no personal experience on. The reality of the FLDS is a whole different situation than when Joseph Smith had more than one wife. Think about it. . .

Since right now I seem to read a lot of books about serial killers I wont mention their titles on the LDS site. See, I want to be a criminal profiler for the FBI, so serial killers and their psyche really interest me. But before I got into that, I really enjoyed a lot of the LDS fiction. My favorite author in that category is Betsy Brannon Green. All of her books are fantastic. They have adventure, and a little romance too! If you wanna know more, just ask me and I'll give some other good LDS fiction books.