Have any of you in temples seen people in spirit form?

[annewandering]

I would never doubt a persons experiences. I might question the interpretation sometimes. We know the spirit world is just through a thin veil even outside the temple.

One thing I wonder, sometimes, is why they visited. Not so much inside the temple but outside. I heard what really did sound like a ghost one time. It was very strange and seemed pointless. Later another person asked about the ghost where we lived before we even told them anything. Apparently it was not uncommon to hear it there and in the same way I heard it. It just doesnt make sense to me but then I guess I dont know every thing after all!

[annewandering]

Ok Vort, I have to ask. Why not tell ghost stories? If they happened then why not say?

[Vort]

Ok Vort, I have to ask. Why not tell ghost stories? If they happened then why not say?

• Many such stories are false, reducing the credibility of the true ones.
• If true, such an experience is a sacred thing, not something to be spread around just to impress people.
• We are told not to cast our pearls before swine. Subjecting such experiences to public ridicule is exactly that.
• Such stories foster an unhealthy fascination with the deceased and the afterlife. We spent uncounted ages before this life in the Father's presence; soon enough, we will experience the afterlife firsthand, and after the resurrection will live forever. At the moment, we are in a mortal life. Our minds should be here, on our duties in this life, not pining away for something better or burning with desire to know the great mysteries of death -- which we are all going to find out anyway.

Those are a few of the reasons. I am sure others could add more.

[annewandering]

Ok I agree with most of that but some experiences are just weird. Like the ghost in my house. Or the voice my brother and I heard in the cherry tree. They dont make any sense and seem pointless as to being a spiritual experience.

[ruthiechan]

Ok I agree with most of that but some experiences are just weird. Like the ghost in my house. Or the voice my brother and I heard in the cherry tree. They dont make any sense and seem pointless as to being a spiritual experience.

And sometimes they are not a spiritual experience because it does not come from God but from those who followed Lucifer.

What I like about your story is that it demonstrates how much our choices here affect the people who have gone before (what we do also affect those who are to come).

[annewandering]

And sometimes they are not a spiritual experience because it does not come from God but from those who followed Lucifer.

I just have to wonder if sometimes they are just neutral. Like the voice in the cherry tree. One story I know involves my grandmother. After grandpa died he apparently never really left. He just kept her company till she died. She went to stay with kids and he just went along with her. She only told a few people not wanting people to think she was nuts, which she wasnt.

Now she did not become converted or anything like that. She just had him be with her. They talked mostly. It is a testimony to me of their love for each other. Thats about it.

So is there a reason it cant just be neutral?

[sister_in_faith]

Frankly, I wish that we were more open about topics like this. Before I had my personal experience I had no idea that this kind of thing could happen, and it was very confusing to me when it did happen. I think we should be MORE open about things that happen in the temple, so that when new people experience them it isn't a total surprise to them. If I had been prepared for my experience, I would have stopped what I was doing, and gone to pray for a while about it. I would have spoken to the sealer before going thru with the ordinance. But as it was, I was just so shocked I didn't know what to do.

In the future I will handle it better. I am truly sorry to the people that I did the ordinance for and to the first wife who was left out, that I didn't know how to handle it better. I really wished that everyone could have been calmed down and happy for the sealing.

We should tell new people that they can expect that they may experience things like this and they should be aware of the feed back they are getting from the other side of the veil. It is important, and without guidance, new people don't know what to do with it.

That's just my opinion.

[annewandering]

The hard part, Sister in Faith, is to keep the matter sacred if its in open discussion. You can discuss anything with the temple workers that is confusing you. That doesnt directly help anyone who is going the first time but if they know that there are people there that will specifically answer questions it might help them if they get confused.

[sister_in_faith]

I agree that the line needs to be drawn somewhere. And I am certainly NOT the person to decide where it is drawn, I just think that sometimes we draw it a little more conservitavely (sp?) than it needs to be. When I was first introduced to the temple, I was told that we could talk about any 'feelings' or personal experiences we had in the temple, we just couldn't talk about 'actions' or what we DO in the temple. But I see people get their hackles up if you even talk about how you felt in the temple, saying it is sacred and we can't discuss it, when actually, we can.

[sister_in_faith]

In fact, when the temple matron told me that we are free to share feelings, I felt like she was encouraging me to do that, because when we share how we feel in the temple, we encourage others to want to experience those blessings for themselves.

[annewandering]

Good point! You got it from a temple worker so that trumps outside opinions in my humble opinion.

[beefche]

First, sharing feelings are not the same as sharing experiences.

Second, not all experiences are fine to share. There ARE sacred experiences that should be kept to oneself.

Third, just because someone works in the temple doesn't mean that person trumps a bishop, stake president, or even an apostle.

[ruthiechan]

This is why I think people need to be open to the idea of sharing so that the spirit can then more easily direct them to share an experience. If the Spirit is nudging you to share something then you know you're doing the right thing.

[annewandering]

Third, just because someone works in the temple doesn't mean that person trumps a bishop, stake president, or even an apostle.

They certainly trump a forum. :)

[sister_in_faith]

First, sharing feelings are not the same as sharing experiences.

Second, not all experiences are fine to share. There ARE sacred experiences that should be kept to oneself.

Third, just because someone works in the temple doesn't mean that person trumps a bishop, stake president, or even an apostle.

First, I never said they were.

Second, I agree. I think we should be guided by the spirit as to what is appropriate to share.

Third, oh, I'm sorry I take back my "temple workers trump apostles" statement. Oh, wait, I don't think I ever said that. Where did that even come from? Hummmm.

[Dravin]

Third, oh, I'm sorry I take back my "temple workers trump apostles" statement. Oh, wait, I don't think I ever said that. Where did that even come from? Hummmm.

She didn't say you did. You spend a lot of time confused and I suspect if you change two things the time you spend confused would diminish:

1) Less assuming everything is a direct response to you.

2) Take more time to actually read what people write.

Edited November 26, 2011 by Dravin

[beefche]

This is why I think people need to be open to the idea of sharing so that the spirit can then more easily direct them to share an experience. If the Spirit is nudging you to share something then you know you're doing the right thing.

Yes, if the Spirit prompts one to share an experience, then one should follow the Spirit.

First, I never said they were.

Second, I agree. I think we should be guided by the spirit as to what is appropriate to share.

Third, oh, I'm sorry I take back my "temple workers trump apostles" statement. Oh, wait, I don't think I ever said that. Where did that even come from? Hummmm.

SIF, please understand that not every response on a thread (whether you began the thread or not) is about you or a post of yours.

I was responding to the general thoughts in the thread and to a post of someone else.

[Mahonri]

The temple is a place where the windows of heaven can be opened to our view via our spirit eyes. Section 97 tells us that in the Temple the pure in heart shall see God. Usually when a departed spirit visits us, it is to call us to repentance.

[sister_in_faith]

She didn't say you did. You spend a lot of time confused and I suspect if you change two things the time you spend confused would diminish:

1) Less assuming everything is a direct response to you.

2) Take more time to actually read what people write.

This is a very unkind thing to say. I have never personally attacked you or your wife, and I expect the same treatment from you.

You do not walk in my shoes, and so you have no idea if I "spend a lot of time confused".

I work very hard at trying to read things appropriately, and respond thoughtfully, but you know what, brain tumors don't make you any smarter, so if I make a mistake now and then (which is bound to happen) it's okay to not pounce on it.

I am so saddened by how unkind your post is.

[Dravin]

This is a very unkind thing to say. I have never personally attacked you or your wife, and I expect the same treatment from you.

I didn't attack you. Pointing out a persistent pattern of behavior and disagreeing with comments in other's posts is not an attack. This is also a behavioral quirk you have.

You do not walk in my shoes, and so you have no idea if I "spend a lot of time confused".

Then you may want to stop indicating confusion in your posts. I have a very good idea of how you post on this board. This also is something you seem to not understand, comments on this board are directed to the comments and displayed behavior on the board. That's the fundamental nature of the beast. If you for instance posted something and someone told you to stop being silly they're referring to your behavior on the board. You err in assuming that people are proclaiming some sort of deep and intimate knowledge of your offline behavior. Sometimes people are claiming such, but the default is people are talking about the online persona you've created for interaction on this message board.

I work very hard at trying to read things appropriately, and respond thoughtfully, but you know what, brain tumors don't make you any smarter, so if I make a mistake now and then (which is bound to happen) it's okay to not pounce on it.

If you have a handicap and you are aware of that handicap I suggest you compensate for it. If you have a problem with reading comprehension, spend the extra time and also keep in mind that you may not be understanding the post correctly. Particularly when someone comes along and explains the purpose of their post and you still insist it is your own reading.

Edited November 26, 2011 by Dravin

[sister_in_faith]

Dravin, just out of couriosity, when you post things like that, do you feel the spirit when you do? Do you enjoy reaching out from your computer and hurting people? Does it make you feel empowered in some way? I'm just trying to understand where YOU are coming from.

[Dravin]

Do you enjoy reaching out from your computer and hurting people?

Nope, but then I'm not reaching out from my computer to hurt people. I'm noting your behavior and commenting on it. Of course this goes right back to the first comment of my previous post.

Does it make you feel empowered in some way?

Nope. No more so than explaining counterproductive behaviors to anyone does.

I'm just trying to understand where YOU are coming from.

I'm coming from the perspective of someone who sees someone has fundamental misconceptions about the nature of message boards and how communications happens on them and who has developed habits that poison communication in threads. I suppose the thing is, on some level, I hope, perhaps without merit, that having those behaviors and misconceptions pointed out may result in that someone adjusting their behavior to something more conducive to communication.

[sister_in_faith]

I poison communication in threads? Did I read that right? I'm sure I didn't, so would you mind clarifying?

[Vort]

This is a very unkind thing to say. I have never personally attacked you or your wife, and I expect the same treatment from you.

You do not walk in my shoes, and so you have no idea if I "spend a lot of time confused".

I work very hard at trying to read things appropriately, and respond thoughtfully, but you know what, brain tumors don't make you any smarter, so if I make a mistake now and then (which is bound to happen) it's okay to not pounce on it.

I am so saddened by how unkind your post is.

s_i_f, you appear not to recognize the irony of your post. Dravin's suggestion to you was to quit assuming everything targets you personally and to read others' posts more carefully. In responding to his post, you ignored both items. Dravin's post was not at all unkind, though that is how you took it. You have used the "I'm so confused" smiley icon () in several of your posts. If you include a little icon that announces "I'm confused", do you think people should not assume that it means you're confused?

The nature of a discussion list such as this one is as follows: People offer their opinions and views on various topics, some gospel-related, some not. Other people then offer their feedback on those opinions and views. Not surprisingly, people often do not agree. That's the whole point of a discussion list -- that people discuss such issues, arguing their point or getting new insights from others.

I have little doubt you will take offense at this post as well. I admit I often come across as pedantic, so you are not alone in taking offense at what I write. But when several of us are saying the same thing, you would be wise to consider what we say and see if we are not speaking the truth.

We don't dislike you. We are glad you're here. We welcome your participation. We would simply like to see you quit taking personal offense at so much of what others write and assuming that everything anyone else writes is pointed directly at you. Careful reading of what others write goes a long way toward doing this.

For example, you took tremendous offense at some things I wrote a few weeks back, and no amount of exhaustive explanation on my part would convince you to back off of your outsized offense. Yet a careful reading of what I originally wrote, and certainly a careful reading of my follow-up posts, would have demonstrated that your offense was misplaced. If my writing is not clear enough for people to understand, that's my bad. If you neglect to read my post carefully enough to understand what I'm actually saying, then that's your bad.

Discussion list participation is supposed to be fun. Otherwise, why bother? But it doesn't seem like you can be having much fun when you are taking offense at half of what other people write in responding to your posts or topics. What Dravin wrote to you applies to everyone: Don't assume that everything people write is aimed at you, and read what they write carefully to make sure you understand it. This is not unkind; it is basic list etiquette and vital to participation in such an environment.

[sister_in_faith]

s_i_f, you appear not to recognize the irony of your post. Dravin's suggestion to you was to quit assuming everything targets you personally and to read others' posts more carefully. In responding to his post, you ignored both items. Dravin's post was not at all unkind, though that is how you took it. You have used the "I'm so confused" smiley icon () in several of your posts. If you include a little icon that announces "I'm confused", do you think people should not assume that it means you're confused?

So when I use this people actually think I'm sitting by my computer with a huge teethy grin?

That's silly.