Afghan woman to marry rapist

[sister_in_faith]

World Blog - Afghan woman: I'll marry rapist, 'even though I can't look at him'

I'm speechless.

[annewandering]

In a Muslim world it is expected. Hey a woman wont give you the time of day? Rape her and she is yours!! Our culture used to practice the same thing. If a woman was raped she was ruined. Only marriage would redeem her and her family. Thankfully we have, mostly, moved past that.

[applepansy]

Very sad story.

[Dravin]

In a Muslim world it is expected.

By a Muslim world you mean certain nations and cultures where Islam is dominate? The culture and laws of Indonesia (country with the largest Muslim population) is different than that of Afghanistan. Or is this an actual tenet of Islam to be found in the Koran?

Edited December 7, 2011 by Dravin

[annewandering]

So in Indonesia a raped woman, and her family, is not dishonered? Thats good to hear!

[Dravin]

So in Indonesia a raped woman, and her family, is not dishonered? Thats good to hear!

I don't know. What I do know is a lot of what people think of as Islam is actually interplay between the culture, laws, and Islam. There is no monolithic Muslims just like there is no monolithic Christians, so if one wants to speak of them as all having a shared characteristic it requires that care be taken. Which is why I ended up asking (though it was in an edit to late for you to catch) if there was an actual tenet of Islam at work here. Though I suppose that would need to be tempered with actual practice. For example I doubt many deaths for parental cursing happen in Israel despite it being in the Mosaic Law. If you've taken that all into account then great, but if not there is a flaw in extrapolating Middle East -> Muslim World unless by Muslim World you mean the Muslim Middle East.

Edited December 7, 2011 by Dravin

[Vort]

I think we show a lack of awareness of both sexuality and sexual social mores in ancient societies that prohibited extramarital sexual contact. A woman's primary virtue was her virginity, so much so that even today among the Saints, the term "virtue" is synonymous with "chastity", and sometimes even "virginity". (Not that I like this identification, but unfortunately, I don't get to make the rules about how people use language.)

Any time an unmarried woman in such a society was found to have engaged in sexual intercourse, she would plead rape if she could. (Still happens today, folks, and in fact is not that uncommon.) The result was a social understanding: A young woman could plead "rape" and society would sort of wink at her indiscretion. The rape could not be proven, so the man (if he was known) could not be punished for rape. And since most societies put a premium on male libido, the man might even be more respected among his peers for his sexual conquest. In such a case, both parties could essentially walk away with a relative minimum of damage. In such a situation, even the very concept of "rape" changes dramatically, both from the male and from the female perspective.

Of course, because female sexual conquest was considered ugly and perverted rather than the sort of wink-and-nod positive granted to male sexual conquest, the woman took the brunt of whatever social punishment befell the couple. But the alternative -- branding a man a rapist and executing him for the crime, even if the sex was consensual -- was deemed even more repugnant. The unfortunate consequence was that women really did get raped, but since they were unlikely to be vindicated when coming forward, they typically just kept quiet about it. (The modern western feminist movement, largely a vomitous, anti-family collection of man-haters, actually hit the nail squarely on the head in pointing this out. Of course, they perverted it into the feminist doctrine "A woman claiming rape never, ever, ever lies," demonstrating that feminist organizations and spokeswomen ought never to be trusted. But that's another issue.)

Now, I realize that few (probably none) of us on this discussion list subscribe to these mores, and it all sounds pretty perverted and tawdry. I certainly neither subscribe to nor support such mores. I am a westerner and have a much more western (and LDS) view of femininity, sexuality, and the responsibilities of each sex toward the other. But the point is, when reading such a story, we ought to withhold judgment a bit and realize that these people are coming at the issue from an entirely foreign perspective -- and that our view is just as alien to them as their view is to us. In such a society, marriage to the rapist may well be the best option open to all parties.

[annewandering]

By Muslim world I mean the Muslim world. I would certainly be glad to hear that this kind of thing is frowned at by most of the Muslim communities. In fact I would love it if I am completely wrong in this.

Culture surely would be a big part of it all. Why does it seem like its such a strong part of the culture? Is the media misreporting and exaggerating the situation? That has certainly happened in the past. Sensation sells better than people just living decent lives doesnt it.

[Jennarator]

Just is sad.

[applepansy]

I think we show a lack of awareness of both sexuality and sexual social mores in ancient societies that prohibited extramarital sexual contact. A woman's primary virtue was her virginity, so much so that even today among the Saints, the term "virtue" is synonymous with "chastity", and sometimes even "virginity". (Not that I like this identification, but unfortunately, I don't get to make the rules about how people use language.)

Any time an unmarried woman in such a society was found to have engaged in sexual intercourse, she would plead rape if she could. (Still happens today, folks, and in fact is not that uncommon.) The result was a social understanding: A young woman could plead "rape" and society would sort of wink at her indiscretion. The rape could not be proven, so the man (if he was known) could not be punished for rape. And since most societies put a premium on male libido, the man might even be more respected among his peers for his sexual conquest. In such a case, both parties could essentially walk away with a relative minimum of damage. In such a situation, even the very concept of "rape" changes dramatically, both from the male and from the female perspective.

Of course, because female sexual conquest was considered ugly and perverted rather than the sort of wink-and-nod positive granted to male sexual conquest, the woman took the brunt of whatever social punishment befell the couple. But the alternative -- branding a man a rapist and executing him for the crime, even if the sex was consensual -- was deemed even more repugnant. The unfortunate consequence was that women really did get raped, but since they were unlikely to be vindicated when coming forward, they typically just kept quiet about it. (The modern western feminist movement, largely a vomitous, anti-family collection of man-haters, actually hit the nail squarely on the head in pointing this out. Of course, they perverted it into the feminist doctrine "A woman claiming rape never, ever, ever lies," demonstrating that feminist organizations and spokeswomen ought never to be trusted. But that's another issue.)

Now, I realize that few (probably none) of us on this discussion list subscribe to these mores, and it all sounds pretty perverted and tawdry. I certainly neither subscribe to nor support such mores. I am a westerner and have a much more western (and LDS) view of femininity, sexuality, and the responsibilities of each sex toward the other. But the point is, when reading such a story, we ought to withhold judgment a bit and realize that these people are coming at the issue from an entirely foreign perspective -- and that our view is just as alien to them as their view is to us. In such a society, marriage to the rapist may well be the best option open to all parties.

I view the story sad from all sides. Even if the man, soon to be husband, didn't rape her. He is now getting a wife who doesn't want to marry him.

I also subscribe to the viewpoint of "what is good for the goose is good for the gander." If the woman is jailed for sex outside the marriage then the man should be jailed too. In this situation, there is a child. DNA will prove paternity.

Vort, there are too many stories like this. Honor killings and such. Woman make up the majority of victims by a long shot. This might be cultural but that doesn't make it right.

I'm sure there are Muslims who honor women and their role in society. I'm sure there are Muslim men who guard the virtue of their wives and daughters without demeaning them. Its too bad there aren't more of them.

[Vort]

For the record, I think conditions in Afghanistan are deplorable, even for the men but moreso for the women. I am horrified at the story. I think the level of ignorance is appalling, and there seems to be open hostility toward femininity. So please do not misconstrue my previous post, a general comment, as somehow supporting the condition of either this woman or women in general in Afghanistan.

Reading things like this, I wonder if there is not a place in such societies for vigilante bands. Any man who would tie up and rape a women, much less his cousin, ought not to live. Assuming her version of events is true and is known to her family, maybe the best thing to happen is for her rapist/future husband to wake up one morning dead by an unknown hand. Not saying that really is the best thing, just that I wonder if it is. The alternative is that such men walk free, and I am not sure if a society that tolerates men who tie up and rape girls is worth preserving.

[Backroads]

This is just tragic.

[annewandering]

Vort, you just cant help but wonder can you. There have been times in the past that even God has gotten fed up with it all and put an end to such abominations. The only comfort I take is knowing it will be made just in the end but that is pretty cold comfort knowing the cruelties that are being dealt out every day. This one just got the news.

[Jennarator]

I view the story sad from all sides. Even if the man, soon to be husband, didn't rape her. He is now getting a wife who doesn't want to marry him.

I also subscribe to the viewpoint of "what is good for the goose is good for the gander." If the woman is jailed for sex outside the marriage then the man should be jailed too. In this situation, there is a child. DNA will prove paternity.

Vort, there are too many stories like this. Honor killings and such. Woman make up the majority of victims by a long shot. This might be cultural but that doesn't make it right.

I'm sure there are Muslims who honor women and their role in society. I'm sure there are Muslim men who guard the virtue of their wives and daughters without demeaning them. Its too bad there aren't more of them.

They don't doubt who the father is, just that they think it couldn't be the first time, so it must have been consentual. (DUMB, but they think that.)

Also does he even want to marry her?? I don't remember reading anything about that.

[annewandering]

It would be ironic if he didnt want to marry her but I am sure he would be comforted by the fact that he can rape her anytime he wants with societies consent. oh but he had that before so I guess he isnt doing better after all.

[Vort]

They don't doubt who the father is, just that they think it couldn't be the first time, so it must have been consentual. (DUMB, but they think that.)

Also does he even want to marry her?? I don't remember reading anything about that.

What grates at me about this is that they put the girl in jail for twelve years because of her "adultery", yet the man who engaged her in sex (rape or otherwise) suffers no retribution of justice at all. I know enough about Islam to know that this is not what Islam teaches. It is pure societal hypocrisy. I have a general understanding of the historical societal forces that led to this, as my first response to the thread tries to argue, but that doesn't mean I like it.

I seriously wonder how such men live with themselves. What must be your view of women and of life to live in such a manner? How is it any better than living as a brute beast? I am pretty sure that such men should be pitied, but that is a difficult thing for me because of my own prejudices and societal conditioning.

[annewandering]

Vort, its my opinion only, but its not a difficult thing for you because of prejudices and conditioning. Its difficult to swallow because its just wrong. The Holy Ghost tells us what is right and wrong and society or whatever He has to be saying it is wrong.

[RescueMom]

This type of thing does not just happen in the Muslim world, or even in the eastern part of the world. Below is a link, and it is graphic with what happens to girls in Eastern Europe who get sold as sex slaves.

Multimedia | The Price of Sex

[applepansy]

For the record, I think conditions in Afghanistan are deplorable, even for the men but moreso for the women. I am horrified at the story. I think the level of ignorance is appalling, and there seems to be open hostility toward femininity. So please do not misconstrue my previous post, a general comment, as somehow supporting the condition of either this woman or women in general in Afghanistan.

Reading things like this, I wonder if there is not a place in such societies for vigilante bands. Any man who would tie up and rape a women, much less his cousin, ought not to live. Assuming her version of events is true and is known to her family, maybe the best thing to happen is for her rapist/future husband to wake up one morning dead by an unknown hand. Not saying that really is the best thing, just that I wonder if it is. The alternative is that such men walk free, and I am not sure if a society that tolerates men who tie up and rape girls is worth preserving.

I didn't think you were making excuses or that you felt any way other than you've described. When I read things like this woman has endured I guess I just can't keep my strong feelings out of my words, no matter how carefully I try to word it.

[annewandering]

This type of thing does not just happen in the Muslim world, or even in the eastern part of the world. Below is a link, and it is graphic with what happens to girls in Eastern Europe who get sold as sex slaves.

Multimedia | The Price of Sex

That is a very good point. Our world has a way to go yet before being transformed.

[HoosierGuy]

Afghanistan is in the dark ages. Those men are very corrupt and evil.

[volgadon]

Afghanistan is in the dark ages. Those men are very corrupt and evil.

If you think that only men encourage and endorse that culture then you are mistaken.

[HoosierGuy]

If you think that only men encourage and endorse that culture then you are mistaken.

It's mostly men who force their religious beliefs on women and force them into submission.

Just look at religious corruption and suppression be it Islam or Christian, it's nearly always from the men.