circusboy01 Posted January 21, 2012 Report Posted January 21, 2012 I've heard about the mark of the beast and the number 666 time and again as I was growing up. So I finally decided to see what the Bible said about it. If anything. I didn't want to search through the whole Bible So I looked for something in the Bible Dictionary, and the Topical Guide. I found no reference to either 666 or The Mark of the Beast. Am I safe in assuming that anyone preaching these two concepts is preaching false doctrine? Thanks Ray Quote
jerome1232 Posted January 21, 2012 Report Posted January 21, 2012 Revelation 13:15-18 KJV Most relevant is highlighted in red. 15 And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed. 16 And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads: 17 And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name. 18 Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six. Quote
HiJolly Posted January 21, 2012 Report Posted January 21, 2012 Revelation 13:15-18 KJV Most relevant is highlighted in red. 15 And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed. 16 And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads: 17 And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name. 18 Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.Using Greek gematria, it's referring to Nero. Number of the Beast - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia HiJolly Quote
Vort Posted January 21, 2012 Report Posted January 21, 2012 I've heard about the mark of the beast and the number 666 time and again as I was growing up. So I finally decided to see what the Bible said about it. If anything. I didn't want to search through the whole Bible So I looked for something in the Bible Dictionary, and the Topical Guide. I found no reference to either 666 or The Mark of the Beast. Am I safe in assuming that anyone preaching these two concepts is preaching false doctrine? Thanks RayNot necessarily, but I'd say you are safe in discounting any magical evil abilities associated with the number 666. The gospel is not superstition. Quote
norah63 Posted January 21, 2012 Report Posted January 21, 2012 So if you needed to have a mark put on you for some government or other reason, it would not cause a problem? Just wondering. I have heard the same explination from other religions as was gave about nero. Quote
HiJolly Posted January 21, 2012 Report Posted January 21, 2012 So if you needed to have a mark put on you for some government or other reason, it would not cause a problem?Just wondering. I have heard the same explination from other religions as was gave about nero.I don't think doing that would be a good idea, and it has nothing to do with the book of Revelation. HiJolly Quote
circusboy01 Posted January 22, 2012 Author Report Posted January 22, 2012 I guess I'd better not try ro convince any of you that I've read the entire book of Revelations. LOL I remember something about most everybody accepting the mark, because they thought it was the right thing to do. But they were wrong. Anyone who truly believed Jesus and Heavenly Father, would refuse the mark. Or am I just remembering a scene from the Omen, or something. Ray Quote
jerome1232 Posted January 22, 2012 Report Posted January 22, 2012 I did find the LDS manual which touches on the subject, it seems a lot is left up to individual interpretation.New Testament Teacher Resource Manual Revelation 12?14 Quote
Snow Posted January 22, 2012 Report Posted January 22, 2012 Using Greek gematria, it's referring to Nero. Number of the Beast - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia HiJollyHi Jolly is right.All through the ages people have read the Book of Revelations as if it pertains to their time (or the time immediately to follow. They have all been proven wrong.The people alive at the time the Book was written would have easily understood that it was referring to Rome and to Nero... not some distant, magical future.Using gematria 666 = Caesar Nero or Nerō KaisarInterestingly, a number of ancient manuscripts have the number of the beast as 616. As it so happens, an alternate spelling for Nero is Nerōn Kaisar with a final n on Nero(n), which, through gematria, adds up to 616.Mystery solved... just like it was understood anciently. Quote
HiJolly Posted January 22, 2012 Report Posted January 22, 2012 I'm really sorry, but ... I'm still going to say this. There is no book of Revelations in the Bible, and never was. It's really not there. Look it up. HiJolly Quote
annewandering Posted January 22, 2012 Report Posted January 22, 2012 If it was Nero, what mark did he want put on everyone? What happened if they refused? Quote
circusboy01 Posted January 22, 2012 Author Report Posted January 22, 2012 (edited) I did find the LDS manual which touches on the subject, it seems a lot is left up to individual interpretation.New Testament Teacher Resource Manual Revelation 12?14Thank you very much. I'm going to read the entire manual. Brother Ray. Edited January 23, 2012 by circusboy01 Quote
circusboy01 Posted January 22, 2012 Author Report Posted January 22, 2012 i don't think doing that would be a good idea, and it has nothing to do with the book of revelation. Hijolly huh??? Quote
rameumptom Posted January 23, 2012 Report Posted January 23, 2012 There is/will be a Beast and 666. That said, we really do not have any solid doctrine regarding it, only speculation.In the Church, we are to focus on doctrine, and not on speculation. The prophet Jacob said of the Jews in Jerusalem that they sinned by "looking beyond the mark." They sought mysteries in speculation, rather than doctrine from revelation. In so doing, they lost their way.If you want to study Revelation, do not waste your time with speculations concerning the Beast, etc. Instead, study what makes a person or nation evil, and what we need to do to be righteous. I suggest studying the Vision of the Tree of Life (1 Nephi 8-15)) in conjunction with Revelation, as Nephi had the same vision as John, but interprets the parts he writes about a bit differently. Second, the history told is secondary to the real message of Revelation: preparing people to return to God's presence, now or in the 2nd Coming. I write about this on my Gospel Doctrine blog at the links below:Joel's Monastery: New Testament Gospel Doctrine Lesson 45: “He That Overcometh Shall Inherit All Things” Revelation 1-4Joel's Monastery: New Testament Gospel Doctrine Lesson 46: “He Will Dwell with Them, and They Shall Be His People” Revelation 5-22 Quote
Snow Posted January 23, 2012 Report Posted January 23, 2012 There is/will be a Beast and 666.You mean a beast in the future that is different than the beast Nero that the author of Revelations referred to? Quote
Snow Posted January 23, 2012 Report Posted January 23, 2012 I'm really sorry, but ... I'm still going to say this. There is no book of Revelations in the Bible, and never was. It's really not there. Look it up. HiJollyYou mean that unless we call it by the name you want us to, the book doesn't exist?I don't think so. Quote
RescueMom Posted January 23, 2012 Report Posted January 23, 2012 HiJolly is right it isn't Revelations...it's The Revelation of St. John the Divine. He's being punny, I think. Quote
annewandering Posted January 23, 2012 Report Posted January 23, 2012 If we know what he is talking about and its in common usage whats the problem? ^^ Quote
circusboy01 Posted January 23, 2012 Author Report Posted January 23, 2012 If we know what he is talking about and its in common usage whats the problem? ^^ You are absolutely right Brother Ray Quote
circusboy01 Posted January 23, 2012 Author Report Posted January 23, 2012 HiJolly is right it isn't Revelations...it's The Revelation of St. John the Divine. He's being punny, I think. I think I've always called it Revelations, and I'm probably not the only one who has made that mistake. I'll try to catch myself from now on Brother Day Quote
circusboy01 Posted January 23, 2012 Author Report Posted January 23, 2012 There is/will be a Beast and 666. That said, we really do not have any solid doctrine regarding it, only speculation.In the Church, we are to focus on doctrine, and not on speculation. The prophet Jacob said of the Jews in Jerusalem that they sinned by "looking beyond the mark." They sought mysteries in speculation, rather than doctrine from revelation. In so doing, they lost their way.If you want to study Revelation, do not waste your time with speculations concerning the Beast, etc. Instead, study what makes a person or nation evil, and what we need to do to be righteous. I suggest studying the Vision of the Tree of Life (1 Nephi 8-15)) in conjunction with Revelation, as Nephi had the same vision as John, but interprets the parts he writes about a bit differently. Second, the history told is secondary to the real message of Revelation: preparing people to return to God's presence, now or in the 2nd Coming. I write about this on my Gospel Doctrine blog at the links below:Joel's Monastery: New Testament Gospel Doctrine Lesson 45: “He That Overcometh Shall Inherit All Things” Revelation 1-4Joel's Monastery: New Testament Gospel Doctrine Lesson 46: “He Will Dwell with Them, and They Shall Be His People” Revelation 5-22 Sometimes we tend to forget the basic principles the Church has taught us. Thank you for reminding me. Brother Ray Quote
Snow Posted January 23, 2012 Report Posted January 23, 2012 HiJolly is right it isn't Revelations...it's The Revelation of St. John the Divine. He's being punny, I think.No, not exactly. Originally there was no title given by the author. Please just started calling it something. The title you use is no more correct than some other name used by others. Quote
rameumptom Posted January 23, 2012 Report Posted January 23, 2012 Snow, exactly. Nero was considered the Beast in his day. But revelation tends to cycle through several times. History repeats itself. So Nephi can quote Isaiah and use his teachings to apply to his people, while Isaiah initially wrote them for Israel a century earlier. Peter could quote Joel and say that it was fulfilled on the day of Pentecost, even though it was only a partial fulfillment, as there was no great destructions, Sun not shine, moon to blood, etc. So, John the Revelator took the Nero of his day as a symbol of the future Beast. Quote
rameumptom Posted January 23, 2012 Report Posted January 23, 2012 If it was Nero, what mark did he want put on everyone? What happened if they refused?There are different options. First, it may have been a mark of slavery, as slaves were often marked (branded or tattooed). To buy or sell in the Roman Empire, one had to worship Nero (in his time, or other Caesars before/after) and accept him as Emperor and a god. Remember Jesus telling others to give unto Caesar that which is Caesar's, showing that even he was expected to give such honor to the Roman head. Later, the Pharisees brought him before Pilate with the charge of treason: trying to replace Caesar as king and mortal god.The mark may not be a visible mark. When Israel marked itself in Egypt, before the coming of the destroying angel, they marked their homes (door posts), but did not place mark specifically on themselves. Another option is the mark is shown in the mannerisms and dress of those who choose to follow the Beast. The wicked dress immodestly. They mark themselves with vulgarity, pride, and lust. In Nero's day, many of the wicked would seek to dress like the Roman Senate, very luxurious. They would have marked themselves by the company they kept in the orgies and scandalous parties. Quote
rameumptom Posted January 23, 2012 Report Posted January 23, 2012 No, not exactly. Originally there was no title given by the author. Please just started calling it something. The title you use is no more correct than some other name used by others.Snow is correct. The earliest texts that name the book call it the Apocalypse of John. Quote
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