Hey Hey!

[pushka]

I'd better say now...It wasn't me!! LOL.

Desire, I enjoy reading your posts too...ignore the bullies!! :)

[babygirl]

you say just ignore the ppl...but how do u do that when it really hurts. and even someone you thought was your friend is siding on the side that hurts you?

[Princess3dward]

Hey people. It isn't really that bad.. I just didn't like it is all... and I figured that if this person thought that, that is was generally a good indication of everyones feelings. It is really long too... like crazy long. Here it is though.

Note: When I left posts, I usually stated as often as I remembered that what I say is not fact, but my opinion based on what is taught to me.

Dez, Honey - you need to make sure when you respond to the posts that you have scriptural/Ensign references to back you up. You are not always correct in your answers and these non-LDS posters do not take into account you are only 16 years old and only been a member for 1 year.

You are so new in the Church, you really shouldn't be on this forum. There are too many anti's and non-LDS and they are not near wholesome enough for you to discuss Gospel Doctrine and Gospel Principles with. I have been in the Church since 1967 - yes I was inactive, but I wasn't "dead" to the Gospelm and my family was VERY active - and this forum isn't wholesome enough for ME

Honey - have you ever been to a Gospel Principles class? If you haven't then you need to go. You will go to it instead of Sunday School classes, and you will go for at least a year. There is a Gospel Principles book that they teach from. You can ask your Bishop to get you one. You really need to go to that class.

Here is a forum that is only for LDS members - they do not allow non-LDS thus the anti's are not allowed either. The name of the forum is Nauvoo. I have been "lurking" there now for about a month and I am going to join shortly.

I am also leaving this forum. There is too much dissension, anger, adversity, arguing and the First Presidency has counseled that we, as LDS members do not need to defend our faith. It stands on it's own, God, Jesus Christ and the Holy Ghost do not require us to defend them. I feel as though I am dancing with the devil every time I visit here - I honestly feel the Holy Ghost leaving me - and that is NOT something I want, and it is something I can prevent.

There are good LDS people on this board - but they have forgotten the basic simple council of our living prophets.

You came to this board to learn more about your faith, I did too. Nauvoo is better geared to give that to you. Here is the link to their site: http://www.nauvoo.com/ubb/cgi/ultimatebb.cgi - go there, lurk for a couple of weeks. See if you don't see and FEEL the difference there.

Do you get the Ensign and New Era? If not, go on-line and read them! They also are words from Heavenly Father. I love The Friend too - same messages only way easier to understand! (and I am 54 years old)

Before I leave here, I want everyone to know why I am leaving. Most probably won't give a hoot - but I still want ALL to know how I feel and the reason I am leaving. I am still composing it - so it may be a while yet. Please keep my leaving between us for now.

Oh. I do get those magaines.... just FYI.. and I love the comics too!

Pushka-LOL! Ya. It isn't you! hee hee!

[StrawberryFields]

There are good LDS people on this board - but they have forgotten the basic simple council of our living prophets.

Good deal Des, you posted it. :)

Now I have to wonder what she meant by the above quote.

Could it be that we fraternize too much with the heathens who roam the earth?

[Dr T]

What did the leadership of your church really say about talking with non-LDS? I thought I read something once that says to feel comfortable discussing your beliefs because they could be supported. I thought a past president said to challenge him on anything (my words). Do the new leadership say to run and hide from the world? That doesn't make sense (to me).

Dr. T

[babygirl]

What did the leadership of your church really say about talking with non-LDS? I thought I read something once that says to feel comfortable discussing your beliefs because they could be supported. I thought a past president said to challenge him on anything (my words). Do the new leadership say to run and hide from the world? That doesn't make sense (to me).

Dr. T

i think its more of the we shouldnt bible bash and argue our beliefes. not to hide from it but if posable avoide situations that will turn into bashing

[Dr T]

Thanks Dancergirl.

[babygirl]

Thanks Dancergirl.

your welcome

[boyando]

<div class='quotemain'>

What did the leadership of your church really say about talking with non-LDS? I thought I read something once that says to feel comfortable discussing your beliefs because they could be supported. I thought a past president said to challenge him on anything (my words). Do the new leadership say to run and hide from the world? That doesn't make sense (to me).

Dr. T

i think its more of the we shouldnt bible bash and argue our beliefes. not to hide from it but if posable avoide situations that will turn into bashing

We know that contention is not of the Lord and as much fun as I have arguing, it is more the natural man and not the spiritual man that chooses to argue

[StrawberryFields]

We know that contention is not of the Lord and as much fun as I have arguing, it is more the natural man and not the spiritual man that chooses to argue

I wonder if that is what the person who sent the Pm to Des meant.

[Dr T]

Hello AMH,

We know that contention is not of the Lord...

I keep reading that. How do we come to that conclusion? I'm not trying to be difficulty I'm just wondering from where that idea comes.

Thank you,

Dr. T

[StrawberryFields]

About contention....

http://72.14.253.104/search?q=cache:kOVdsM...us&ct=clnk&cd=2

[pushka]

you say just ignore the ppl...but how do u do that when it really hurts. and even someone you thought was your friend is siding on the side that hurts you?

Hi Dancergirl,

I'm sorry for the effect that my comments had on you. I didn't mean to be flippant, I suppose it's just the advice I've always been given is to 'ignore' bullies, so that they do not get the attention from you which they are craving. I understand this is virtually impossible to do, however I don't disagree with sharing the fact that you are distressed by somebody's behaviour, in order to rectify the situation.

After reading Des's copy of the pm to her, I'm pleased to see that it wasn't written in a bullying way, just as an advisory and what the poster felt was a helpful way.

I'm sorry to hear that the person who sent the PM is considering leaving the site also...I think it's great hearing all the different opinions on here, and think that the LDS who are secure with their faith shouldn't have too much to worry about sticking up for their beliefs. The less confident can always PM members who they feel might be more able to help them with their more shaky areas, after praying too, of course

[Gwen]

well, it also goes to show us to be careful, what we think may be helpful could very well not be. there is a saying i used to hear growing up that seems appropriate.

the road to hell is paved with good intentions.

lol

seriously though, we are advised by the general authorites to be aware of who we are and our strengths and weakness. we were also told to help those in need without putting ourselves in the way of temptation. one may be able to do something that another can not. i have enjoyed being here, yes sometimes i laugh and ignore certain threads, seems like a waste of time for me, but not for someone else, have fun. if this person feels the spirit has left because of feelings and words here, i'm proud of them for having the personal insite to be aware of their weakness and act on that knowledge. if they feel they must tell us first, freedom of speach, go for it. what i think, this may have even been done out of concern for des and it didn't go well. so if it were me i think i would come out here publicly apoligize for the unintentional hurt, say my peice and never return. that simple. we must all do what is best for us, being on here may be good for you or not, make a decision and do, don't try to convince everyone else to follow, that is their agency.

just my two cents. lol

ALmom

ps by all means share other wonderful sites you have found. personaly i don't think i could keep up with more than one but that's me lol

[Dr T]

Thank you Berry for the link/info. A lot of those seem to be talking about "amongst brothers." If all of those passages were meant to say don't engage in discussion about your beliefs with non-believers, I didn't see it that way. The Bible says to have a ready defense for the hope that is within you. How do we reconcile that with walking away from opportunities to do just that? Like that Red guy who just came back. He laid out his argument and Bro D posted his reply. Bro D's second post encouraged LDS to no participate in that discussion. I just don't see how that goes together.

Thank you again,

Dr. T

[StrawberryFields]

After reading Des's copy of the pm to her, I'm pleased to see that it wasn't written in a bullying way, just as an advisory and what the poster felt was a helpful way.

I'm sorry to hear that the person who sent the PM is considering leaving the site also...I think it's great hearing all the different opinions on here, and think that the LDS who are secure with their faith shouldn't have too much to worry about sticking up for their beliefs.

I also think that it is valuable to see that the person who PM'd Des was trying to be helpful.Her heart was in the right place. :)

Pushka, you mentioned that if someone is secure in their faith they should be able to stick up for their beliefs. I am not so sure that it is only about faith. I think much depends on where we are emotionally. Also having been here from more than three years I have become more used to the arguements that non-believers bring up. Living in Utah for the majority of my life, I had not heard much of what the arguments are. Three years ago when I came here I was very vulnerable, I had just lost my mom to cancer and was having a difficult time dealing with the loss of her. I come from a less active family and my mom was suffering, it was suggested by hospice that she might benefit from a blessing to release her. My father turned to my husband to give my mom this blessing and within a matter of just a couple of hours she was gone. My heart was broken and my spirit was fragile. I must have appeared wounded because I had some who were non-members here really distort my beliefs. Since that time I have had good times and difficult times both on and off this board.

All in all, I consider myself one of the lucky one who has gone through many storms and came out a little stronger and hopefully a little wiser.

I think it is important to remember that everyone joins LDS Talk for a different reason. Some are seeking an escape, friendship, knowledge, and support. Some might join just to discredit our church and to make the members here question the foundation of what they believe.

Personally I am okay with the expressing of opinion but not okay when discrediting the church in which this site carries the name.

Thank you Berry for the link/info. A lot of those seem to be talking about "amongst brothers." If all of those passages were meant to say don't engage in discussion about your beliefs with non-believers, I didn't see it that way. The Bible says to have a ready defense for the hope that is within you. How do we reconcile that with walking away from opportunities to do just that? Like that Red guy who just came back. He laid out his argument and Bro D posted his reply. Bro D's second post encouraged LDS to no participate in that discussion. I just don't see how that goes together.

Thank you again,

Dr. T

We have been instructed that when it become an arguement the spirit leaves.

[Dr T]

OK. Not argument but discussion. Would you say "It's an argument" if there is a difference of opinion in the discussion and both sides are addressed cordially? If any disagreement is an argument and you are called to stop that discussion it just seems “too convenient” of an argument to not engage.

[pushka]

Hi Berry,

Yes I agree that you also need strength and support from fellow believers in your religion to stand up to non believers sometimes.

I understand you not wanting to get into arguments with non believers, especially if those arguments become heated.

[shanstress70]

Hi SF,

Just curious what you think about the LDS apologists at FAIR. All they do is debate/argue. That would totally stress me out!

[StrawberryFields]

Hi SF,

Just curious what you think about the LDS apologists at FAIR. All they do is debate/argue. That would totally stress me out!

I have been there once or twice. I prefer a more family site with family interests, thats why I have made LDS Talk my board of choice.

OK. Not argument but discussion. Would you say "It's an argument" if there is a difference of opinion in the discussion and both sides are addressed cordially? If any disagreement is an argument and you are called to stop that discussion it just seems “too convenient” of an argument to not engage.

Don't be ludicrous everyone knows when a discussion turns into an arguement.

[Dr T]

Thanks Berry,

Would you say that Red's posts are an argument yet or just his position and possible for an exchange of info?

Dr. T

[StrawberryFields]

Hi Berry,

Yes I agree that you also need strength and support from fellow believers in your religion to stand up to non believers sometimes.

I understand you not wanting to get into arguments with non believers, especially if those arguments become heated.

I believe that in arguments both sides have something to prove. In a discussion, people are able to express opinions with needing to prove anything. Adults can agree to disagree without becoming offensive in a discussion.

Thanks Berry,

Would you say that Red's posts are an argument yet or just his position and possible for an exchange of info?

Dr. T

I am not very familiar with the writings of Red, therefore I am unable to form an opinion.

[prisonchaplain]

Hey people. It isn't really that bad.. I just didn't like it is all...

I'm going to treat this PM like we treat many posts here--slice it up, and see how it cuts. First, Desire's response was right on--it wasn't that bad, but doesn't leave a good taste either.

Dez, Honey - you need to make sure when you respond to the posts that you have scriptural/Ensign references to back you up. You are not always correct in your answers and these non-LDS posters do not take into account you are only 16 years old and only been a member for 1 year.

PM is wrong. Dez has often explained that she is young, and not an expert. We non-LDS posters are not lack in discernment. There was some accusation early on that a poster or two were trying to confuse Dez, but I rather think it was just the normal difficulty in communicating in a forum where there is no nonverbal communication, nor tone (90% of how we communicate 'live').

You are so new in the Church, you really shouldn't be on this forum. There are too many anti's and non-LDS and they are not near wholesome enough for you to discuss Gospel Doctrine and Gospel Principles with. I have been in the Church since 1967 - yes I was inactive, but I wasn't "dead" to the Gospelm and my family was VERY active - and this forum isn't wholesome enough for ME

PM is a bit arrogant, but, of course, it's always good to study your faith's basic doctrines. On the other hand, even the new convert has plenty to teach the old-timers, because we all have unique experiences.

Here is a forum that is only for LDS members - they do not allow non-LDS thus the anti's are not allowed either. The name of the forum is Nauvoo. I have been "lurking" there now for about a month and I am going to join shortly.

I'm a little put off by how this PM keeps lumping non-LDS and antis together as one group.

I am also leaving this forum. There is too much dissension, anger, adversity, arguing and the First Presidency has counseled that we, as LDS members do not need to defend our faith. It stands on it's own, God, Jesus Christ and the Holy Ghost do not require us to defend them. I feel as though I am dancing with the devil every time I visit here - I honestly feel the Holy Ghost leaving me - and that is NOT something I want, and it is something I can prevent.

I guess the LDS have this same phenomenon we Pentecostal/Charismatics have. When we're going to make an unpopular, perhaps unScriptural decision, or when we have an argument that is weak, we proclaim that the Spirit has impressed me to go in this way, and we speak of the negative spiritual atmosphere of doing otherwise.

There are good LDS people on this board - but they have forgotten the basic simple council of our living prophets.

Are there any good non-LDS people here? The Apostle Paul says we're to be ready with an answer for our faith. In my near to a year here, I've sensed that most LDS posters strike that balance--they'll explain and occasionally offer up an initial defense. Most will not get into a contentious back and forth. If they do, they eventually realize what's happened, and pull themselves out.

You came to this board to learn more about your faith, I did too. Nauvoo is better geared to give that to you. Here is the link to their site: http://www.nauvoo.com/ubb/cgi/ultimatebb.cgi - go there, lurk for a couple of weeks. See if you don't see and FEEL the difference there.

If all you want to do is learn about your faith, read the Standard Works, be faithful in ward attendance, and move to Utah. If you want to strengthen your faith--stretch it out some--then don't be afraid to dialogue with open-hearted 'unbelievers.'

Do you get the Ensign and New Era? If not, go on-line and read them! They also are words from Heavenly Father. I love The Friend too - same messages only way easier to understand! (and I am 54 years old)

I probably should read more stuff from Gospel Publishing House--including the Pentecostal Evangel. It is faith-promoting. But, somehow, that iron-sharpens-iron thing works for me too.

Before I leave here, I want everyone to know why I am leaving. Most probably won't give a hoot - but I still want ALL to know how I feel and the reason I am leaving. I am still composing it - so it may be a while yet. Please keep my leaving between us for now.

By all means, if you feel you are weak in the faith, bury yourself in your own faith tradition, and move to a ocmmunity where nearly everyone is like-minded. Sometimes small worlds do feel safer.

[Princess3dward]

Are there any good non-LDS people here? The Apostle Paul says we're to be ready with an answer for our faith. In my near to a year here, I've sensed that most LDS posters strike that balance--they'll explain and occasionally offer up an initial defense. Most will not get into a contentious back and forth. If they do, they eventually realize what's happened, and pull themselves out.

I noticed that too. Yes their are! You are totally one of them!

[prisonchaplain]

I noticed that too. Yes their are! You are totally one of them!

See. Now you went and me! You definitely have a precious spirit about you too.