Trayvon Martin

[Guest]

I vote American Idol be banned from Television. Oh, and throw in the Kardashians too.

[bytor2112]

"Now thats justice for Trayvon."

[LittleWyvern]

You realize that posting every news article you can find of white people getting beat up by black people only makes the problem worse, right?

[MorningStar]

You realize that posting every news article you can find of white people getting beat up by black people only makes the problem worse, right?

That article specifically mentions that they did it to get justice for Trayvon. People like Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton need to see what they started when they immediately made this a race issue without knowing all the facts.

[Vort]

You realize that posting every news article you can find of white people getting beat up by black people only makes the problem worse, right?

So you're saying white people should just keep quiet when they get beaten up?

Do you feel the same way about black people?

Guess Trayvon Martin's parents should just shut up, huh? Look at all the trouble they're causing.

[LittleWyvern]

That article specifically mentions that they did it to get justice for Trayvon. People like Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton need to see what they started when they immediately made this a race issue without knowing all the facts.

Maybe I'm weird, but I think the way forward is to ease tensions and stop the race anger. Posting articles like bytor is doing only stirs the pot more (bytor has a history of doing just that in this thread). And, yes, I do think that the examples you mention are also stirring the pot.

For instance,

So you're saying white people should just keep quiet when they get beaten up?

Do you feel the same way about black people?

Guess Trayvon Martin's parents should just shut up, huh? Look at all the trouble they're causing.

Do I know you, or something?

Edited April 24, 2012 by LittleWyvern

[bytor2112]

Stirring the pot? On an LDS site? Really? The articles that I posted, were about comments from a well respected Harvard law professor,regarding the Zimmerman case and the other just points out the fallout of race husltlers like Sharpton and Jackson, both former Democratic candidates for President I might add and the misreporting of the event by another left wing media outlet.

Edited April 24, 2012 by bytor2112

[prisonchaplain]

Why does the book and movie Bonfire of Vanities keep coming to my mind...real feeling of de ja vu running through my head.

The Bonfire of the Vanities Synopsis - Plot Summary - Fandango.com

Edited April 24, 2012 by prisonchaplain

[john doe]

You realize that posting every news article you can find of white people getting beat up by black people only makes the problem worse, right?

So you're saying that posting links to stories about black people beating up white people in the name of Trayvon is not relevant to the issue? I'm thinking you're just angry that the events and article don't help your social and political views. If you find any articles where whites or Hispanics are beating up blacks in the name of George Zimmerman, feel free to post them.

[LittleWyvern]

So you're saying that posting links to stories about black people beating up white people in the name of Trayvon is not relevant to the issue?

Not irrelevant, just unhelpful. Unless, of course, the point of this thread isn't to have a civil conversation.

I'm thinking you're just angry that the events and article don't help your social and political views.

No, but it's interesting that you think that. If somebody posted

any articles where whites or Hispanics are beating up blacks in the name of George Zimmerman

, I'd be against that too. If I have a social view here, it's that people need to stop thinking solely in black and white. Recently, everything is a race issue. I think a better idea would be for each side to try to understand each other better and quit thinking it's some sort of duty to prove that they're better than another.

[Tyler90AZ]

Actually it is irrelevant and damaging to a good conversation to drop those stories in without explanation. If you had said, "I posted this because it shows it is becoming a race issue." Then it would be relevant to the topic. Instead, you just dropped it in trying to prove a point, but never said what point. That does nothing, only shows your making it a race issue. If you don't want it to be a race issue, don't contribute to it.

It is also irrelevant in the fact that it links in no way back to anybody involved in this issue. That is like dropping a KKK story in here or a story about slave murders. No where did anybody tell these men to hurt in the name of Trayvon. You can't look at the loudest and assume the whole is like that.

I also just want to point out something funny I have noticed. When it looked like Zimmerman wasn't going to get charged everybody was like let our justice system play out, it works. Now that he is charged, the justice system is all of a sudden broken.

[prisonchaplain]

Tyler...the media to some extent, and certain usual players to a great extent, are ginning up emotions on this story. I believe if one goes back through these posts there has been a few voices of concern that people are going to get hurt. The posting of some of these incidences of African-Americans hurting white people proves those fears to have been prophetic. I recall the notorious incident during the LA riots when a white man stepped out of his stalled truck, and was hit with a brick upside the head.

Another concern is that Zimmerman's jury may feel pressure to convict him to avoid a repeat of those LA riots. None of this speaks to whether Zimmerman is guilty or not. My own fear is that his guilt or innocence is becoming increasingly irrelevent.

Edited April 24, 2012 by prisonchaplain

[Tyler90AZ]

Those crimes would have happened regardless of Trayvon getting shot or not. They just tagged Justice for Trayvon on to their crimes.

[marshac]

Those crimes would have happened regardless of Trayvon getting shot or not. They just tagged Justice for Trayvon on to their crimes.

Unless you have some insight into how affairs unfolded in some alternate universe, i'm not sure how you can actually make such a statement.

[bytor2112]

None of this speaks to whether Zimmerman is guilty or not. My own fear is that his guilt or innocence is becoming increasingly irrelevent.

Yes exactly. The narrative presented by race hustlers and agenda driven left wing media is that a a large white man (really a slim hispanic man) racially profiled an angelic 12 year old looking black kid and in a fit of racist rage shot and killed the unarmed black boy and since the Sanford police investigated and didn't bend to the outcry of the angry mob, the story grew ever larger and suddenly Mr. Zimmerman's life was allowed to be threatened to the point of a bounty being placed on his head and the only acceptable justice for him is arrest and prosecution or all living heck will likely break out.

How does this young man receive a fair trial and find an impartial jury?

Edited April 24, 2012 by bytor2112

[Tyler90AZ]

Unless you have some insight into how affairs unfolded in some alternate universe, i'm not sure how you can actually make such a statement.

Life experience tells me that dumb people are always going to do dumb stuff. If it is not for one reason, they will find another reason.

[Tyler90AZ]

Yes exactly. The narrative presented by race hustlers and agenda driven left wing media is that a a large white man (really a slim hispanic man) racially profiled an angelic 12 year old looking black kid and in a fit of racist rage shot and killed the unarmed black boy and since the Sanford police investigated and didn't bend to the outcry of the angry mob, the story grew ever larger and suddenly Mr. Zimmerman's life was allowed to be threatened to the point of a bounty being placed on his head and the only acceptable justice for him is arrest and prosecution or all living heck will likely break out.

How does this young man receive a fair trial and find an impartial jury?

Think about it for a second bytor, what do you expect the right wing media to say?

The fact is he got arrested and according to the prosecutors he is a murderer. Now all we have to do is wait for all the evidence to be revealed and find out if a jury deems him a murderer. Like you have said before, we can't jump to conclusions about guilt or innocence. However, thus far in the process, he is looking pretty guilty. We can't only say things when they fit our opinion of a situation.

[Tyler90AZ]

I would actually be fine with this thread closing.... Honestly is getting a little old typing the same thing over and over.

[bytor2112]

Not sure I follow you...Tyler. The Right Wing Media didn't start this narrative, that was left to Sharpton/Jackson and company. The only thing Zimmerman is guilty of is not being very smart or perhaps foolishly brave. I would have shot Trayvon if he had been on top of me bashing my head into the sidewalk as well.....

[prisonchaplain]

Life experience tells me that dumb people are always going to do dumb stuff. If it is not for one reason, they will find another reason.

While dumb people always do dumb, foolish people egged on by professionals can be whipped into a potentially murderous frenzy.

[Dravin]

While dumb people always do dumb, foolish people egged on by professionals can be whipped into a potentially murderous frenzy.

And really, the laws about incitement wouldn't exist if such wasn't the case. Doesn't even take a professional.

Edited April 24, 2012 by Dravin

[Just_A_Guy]

I also just want to point out something funny I have noticed. When it looked like Zimmerman wasn't going to get charged everybody was like let our justice system play out, it works. Now that he is charged, the justice system is all of a sudden broken.

I still have faith in the judicial system; but I think it is a bit worrisome that an official police investigation can clear a person, and then reverse itself and file charges after a frenzied public gets the police chief thrown off the case and the federal Department of Justice (who frankly shouldn't be involved anyways) intervene in a state court proceeding demanding the selection of a new prosecutor.

It's not double jeopardy, exactly; but it makes me uncomfortable nonetheless.

[Tyler90AZ]

Where is the evidence that he was on top? I have heard conflicting stories from witnesses. If we are relying on what Zimmerman says, that is obviously faulty. Do we really expect him to say anything else? Also it is a little bit lopsided that we can not hear Martin because he was shot in the chest. Now if he would have been shot somewhere else we could hear his side.

The things we can agree on(I hope):

Just because Trayvon was black does not mean it is automatically self defense for Zimmerman.

Just because Zimmerman is not black does not mean he is not a murderer.

Black ≠ Thug

Thug ≠ Black

All races are capable of murder.

There are racists in every single race.

Every news network has a drive to make money, it is a business.

This murder is not a huge conspiracy theory to get somebody reelected.

People don't have the right to shoot whomever they want.

Just because somebody wears a hoodie he is not a criminal.

The Martin family just wants a fair trial for their son.

If Zimmerman is found guilty it is a good thing people protested because justice would not have served.

If Zimmerman is found guilty the justice system is not broken.

All people regardless of race are part of the human family.

A superior race s complete nonsense and only an unintelligent person would believe that.

[Just_A_Guy]

A couple more additions to your list of mostly indisputable pronouncements:

--Legally speaking, the burden falls on the State and Martin's supporters to show beyond a reasonable doubt that Zimmerman murdered--not killed, but murdered--Martin.

--Legally speaking, the burden falls on the State and Martin's supporters to show beyond a reasonable doubt that Zimmerman was not acting in self-defense.

--Legally speaking, the burden falls on the State and Martin's supporters to show beyond a reasonable doubt that Zimmerman did in fact persist in following Martin after he was told to desist.

--Legally speaking, the burden falls on the State and Martin's supporters to show beyond a reasonable doubt that it was Zimmerman and not Martin who began the physical altercation.

--Legally speaking, the burden falls on the State and Martin's supporters to show beyond a reasonable doubt that Martin was not on top in the ensuing scuffle during which he was shot.

--Legally speaking, the burden falls on the State and Martin's supporters to show that Martin was not a thug, that he was not the sort of person who would instigate a physical fight against Zimmerman, and that he was not behaving suspiciously that night.

--No one in this country should have to "prove" their innocence in the courts just to placate a mob that has been created by the powers-that-be for commercial or political reasons.

[Guest]

JAG. You. Win. The. Internet.