I think I want a divorce from my in-laws.

[Guest]

I could write a book on what I have been through with these people over the years. Mostly one sister and one sister-in-law, but most of the rest of them, too, mostly by their kowtowing to her dysfunctional whims.

Suffice it to say, I'm done being hurt by them.

I want to remove myself, physically. I don't want to be around them anymore. I don't want to communicate with them anymore. I just want to put them behind me like I would if they didn't happen to be my husband's family of origin. A select few will get visitation rights. :) I won't get in the way of the safe ones having relationships with my husband and children. But they have proven time and again that they don't care about me or my feelings or anything else.

No one in the family has been willing to step up and try to stick up for me or take care of me (other than silent, private statements of support). Not even my husband, really. He wants me to just emotionally disconnect and keep trying. He's a bootstrapper, though, and I don't think he really understands the impact they've had on me. I WISH I could just do what he wants, but I've been trying and it's not working. I just keep getting hurt more and more.

I'm not concerned about them, because frankly I don't think they'll notice or care much. But I do care deeply for my husband's feelings. Our marriage is otherwise fantastic. This is the one area where I don't feel altogether supported, and that's okay. But in taking care of myself I'm letting him down. I guess I'm not quite sure what to do about that.

[Dravin]

I take it you've discussed that you feel that the only way to prevent harm to yourself is to remove yourself from the people committing the harm is the only workable solution you see and that is when the 'bootstrapper' comes out? Just to make sure I understand, he's of the feeling that you should just ignore them emotionally and continue interacting to maintain the facade/fiction of healthy happy family relations?

Edited May 23, 2012 by Dravin

[Guest]

I take it you've discussed that you feel that the only way to prevent harm to yourself is to remove yourself from the people committing the harm is the only workable solution you see and that is when the 'bootstrapper' comes out? Just to make sure I understand, he's of the feeling that you should just ignore them emotionally and continue interacting to maintain facade/fiction of healthy happy family relations?

Close. He feels I should continue to be friendly and just not "let" myself be hurt when they're mean, or thoughtless, or exclusionary, or accusatory, or dismissive, or whatever. He knows that's not as easy as it might sound, but that's what he'd ideally want. He cares little to nothing about any kind of facade (though the rest of them care very much about it to the point of not even acknowledging any problems, even though there are some pretty huge problems). He just thinks that if I remove myself from the equation I'll actually be making relationships worse. My point is that I don't really care about the relationships I have with them anymore. They're crappy anyway, and none of them give a fig about me. What I care about is not putting myself in the line of fire anymore.

Edited May 23, 2012 by Eowyn

[Dravin]

He just thinks that if I remove myself from the equation I'll actually be making relationships worse. My point is that I don't really care about the relationships I have with them anymore. They're crappy anyway, and none of them give a fig about me. What I care about is not putting myself in the line of fire anymore.

Does he understand this point? That you're not looking at this as a solution to relationships but as a solution to hurts? Relationships are not unilateral, you can't single-handedly improve the relationship no matter what you do. The only thing you can do by yourself for these family members is change how you feel about them, to love and forgive them, but that's a separate issue. And to love and forgive does not mean you need to put yourself within striking distance of people.

To quote an Ensign Article on abuse, more particularly a comment it makes about forgiving:

It is important to note that forgiveness does not necessarily mean forgetting the offense, trusting the offender, or even associating with him or her.

Link: Hope and Healing in Recovering from Abuse - Ensign Sept. 2008 - ensign

I suppose my line of thinking is, does your husband understand where you are coming from even if he doesn't agree with it? It's easy to assume others understand where we are coming from, our thought processes, and even the particular nature of our issues and hurts.

Edited May 23, 2012 by Dravin

[Guest]

Yeah, family drama is such a difficult thing to have to wade through. It's okay if it's your family, you have a lot more "power" to take control of a situation. If it's your in-laws, you're really not in a position to get them to do/not do something. This is your husband's territory. But, if he doesn't want to deal with it, then you shouldn't have to deal with it either.

I am all for Girl's Night Out when the sister and sister-in-law are spending time with your husband and children. I mean - you go get your girl friends together and go do something just for you! FREEDOM! If your husband ask why you're not being family then say, well, I'm done with having to deal with the two of them. I mean, be frank. Just like that. And let your husband deal with what they say about it.

Of course, when it's major events like Thanksgiving and Christmas, then you might have to just have to suck it up. But that should be all you have to deal with.

Of course, you have to still keep a respectful tone about you when talking about your sister-in-law. Your husband grew up with her and I'm certain he has tender feelings for her. But, being respectful is far from laying down to be her doormat. You know what I mean?

[Guest]

Dravin, I'm not sure I've even realized that I need to make that clear until now. Thank you, your post is really helpful.

My husband loves me and his loyalty is with me above all. He's a peacemaker and just wants everything to be okay with everyone. I guess we need to have yet another talk so that I can try to help him understand this. He'll support whatever I decide, I just want to minimize any hurt and stress he gets from the situation.

Thanks, anatess. That's kind of the direction I've been thinking in, but sometimes I need someone else to confirm that I'm not totally off track.

[Dravin]

Of course, you have to still keep a respectful tone about you when talking about your sister-in-law. Your husband grew up with her and I'm certain he has tender feelings for her. But, being respectful is far from laying down to be her doormat. You know what I mean?

That is a very valid point. This is family and it is very easy to get on the defensive about family. It makes a good general rule too, you really shouldn't be badmouthing anyone, but when it's family you are badmouthing it puts your husband/wife in a rather unenviable position. Requiring loyalty to you to include disloyalty to family isn't something you should be requiring explicitly or implicitly.

For the record Eoywn I'm not saying you are doing this to your Husband.

Dravin, I'm not sure I've even realized that I need to make that clear until now. Thank you, your post is really helpful.

It occurred to me because I've run into it myself in my marriage. Not for anything terribly important but me and Beefche have talked past each other enough times on the mundane stuff that I'm realizing it's really easy to assume the other party understands you. Just ask Beefche about taking out the trash versus emptying the trash. :)

[Guest]

Some things are so universal. Like trash arguments. :)

[applepansy]

When you figure out how to divorce the inlaws will you let me know? please!

[annewandering]

It has to be easier if they are rotten people with few redeeming values. Pedophilia, abuse, drugs, criminal etc. Problem is when you just dont like them and their attitudes. My husband makes remarks about my family sometimes that do hurt my feelings. On the other hand his family is, overall, the easy kind to just not have anything to do with. I wonder sometimes if it hurts his feelings that I hold them in such low regard even thought he does as well. Family is family even bad family.

If it ere me, Eowyn, I would find something else to do when they are around. Even if its a walk in the park. Take a break from them. Maybe by Thanksgiving you might be more willing to tolerate them for a few hours.

In the mean time make sure that your husband knows its not a reflection on him. They may be annoying but he did turn out pretty good even being related to them!

[EarlJibbs]

My first thought is drop them like you drop friends on Face Book and move on. Discretely.

Another thought is if you have been sealed to your husband, you are also bonded to his family if they have been sealed together right? Eternity with those who annoy you? Maybe their will be enough eternity to work out differences.

This is a tough one.

[applepansy]

Close. He feels I should continue to be friendly and just not "let" myself be hurt when they're mean, or thoughtless, or exclusionary, or accusatory, or dismissive, or whatever. He knows that's not as easy as it might sound, but that's what he'd ideally want. He cares little to nothing about any kind of facade (though the rest of them care very much about it to the point of not even acknowledging any problems, even though there are some pretty huge problems). He just thinks that if I remove myself from the equation I'll actually be making relationships worse. My point is that I don't really care about the relationships I have with them anymore. They're crappy anyway, and none of them give a fig about me. What I care about is not putting myself in the line of fire anymore.

I am really starting to believe we have the same inlaws.

I did remove myself several years ago. We're just barely getting back to where I can visit my husband's parents without a lot of contention and bad feelings. The rest of the inlaws are not in the picture much.

The last family party I went to caused my husband's niece to send me an rant to beat all rants in a facebook message. I printed it out and my husband is going to respond. He's finally pretty upset about how his family has been treating me all these years. We also let his parents read it. They now have a better understanding about why I won't be around the family.

Unfortunately, I don't think you can completely divorce inlaws. Its sort of like a divorcing your spouse after you've had children together. You still have to talk to them for the kids sake. I found I still had to associate with my husband's parents for his sake. They finally realized they have to be nice for their son's sake too.

Now...what to do with the rest of his family?

[NeuroTypical]

When you figure out how to divorce the inlaws will you let me know? please!

My wife and I went from an unhealthy situation with her family, to dealing with them from a position of strength on our own terms, to basically not having anything to do with them. It involved many years of sadness and anguish on everyone's part.

Two things helped me the most. First was climbing my everest and learning how to truly forgive them. Once I could finally kneel in prayer and ask God to bless them and help them, everything got easier for me. The other thing was writing everything out in a journal. What the issues were, tracking the letters and encounters back and forth, identifying what would have to happen for a healthy relationship to exist, etc. That helped me stay righteous without straying into self-righteousness or bitterness or anger or what have you.

What helped my wife the most, was putting 668.4 miles between us and all of them. Other things were also helpful:

- Letting a few years go by after the move

- Having a supportive husband who let her move at her own pace

- Hearing validation and agreement from two bishops, a stake president, a visit to the temple, a blessing or two, an LSCW, and a shrink.

- Finding a person here and there who was raised in similar circumstances, who had managed to create a more or less healthy life for themselves in the decades since.

We've left the door open to her family, and clearly identified a few things they could do tomorrow if they wanted a relationship. Things that would give us an indication that they are no longer sources of harm and grief (or even just a good indication that they are trying). It's been 4 years, nothing so far. Every year or two, they contact us with their latest request that we forgive them and stop the unjust ostracising. I reply basically with the same letter over and over again, letting them know we forgave everyone years ago, clearly stating why we feel they're a danger to us, and giving a few things they could do to demonstrate they are no longer a threat. We leave room in our hearts in case something happens on this side of the veil. If not, we have much hope that something can happen on the other side.

Anyway applepansy, there it is. A quick and easy way to divorce in-laws. Easy as pie, right?

p.s. "Honor thy father and mother" pretty much means you can't just flat out divorce.

Edited May 23, 2012 by Loudmouth_Mormon

[applepansy]

Close. He feels I should continue to be friendly and just not "let" myself be hurt when they're mean, or thoughtless, or exclusionary, or accusatory, or dismissive, or whatever. He knows that's not as easy as it might sound, but that's what he'd ideally want. He cares little to nothing about any kind of facade (though the rest of them care very much about it to the point of not even acknowledging any problems, even though there are some pretty huge problems). He just thinks that if I remove myself from the equation I'll actually be making relationships worse. My point is that I don't really care about the relationships I have with them anymore. They're crappy anyway, and none of them give a fig about me. What I care about is not putting myself in the line of fire anymore.

I am really starting to believe we have the same inlaws.

I did remove myself. We're just barely getting back to where I can visit my husband's parents without a lot of contention and bad feelings. The rest of the inlaws are not in the picture much.

The last family party I went to caused my husband's niece to send me an rant to beat all rants in a facebook message. I printed it out and my husband is going to respond. He's finally pretty upset about how his family has been treating me all these years. We also let his parents read it. They now have a better understanding about why I won't be around the family.

Unfortunately, I don't think you can completely divorce inlaws. Its sort of like a divorcing your spouse after you've had children together. You still have to talk to them for the kids sake. I found I still had to associate with my husband's parents for his sake. They finally realized they have to be nice for their son's sake too.

Now...what to do with the rest of his family?

[Guest]

Excellent, LMM. Thanks. I've had the stray thought today that journaling through this might help. Now I have some direction for that.

The "eternal family" aspect of it had me fighting as hard as I could to fix things for a lot of years. I can't own that anymore, though. It's not responsibility or guilt that I'm willing to shoulder. There is mental illness involved, as well as inappropriate conduct that could be a huge warning sign for danger. We've been heeding that warning appropriately to keep our kids safe (which is a lot of the problem, if you want to call protecting your children a problem). The rest is just thoughtless, selfish, crappy behavior.

[applepansy]

My wife and I went from an unhealthy situation with her family, to dealing with them from a position of strength on our own terms, to basically not having anything to do with them. It involved many years of sadness and anguish on everyone's part.

Two things helped me the most. First was climbing my everest and learning how to truly forgive them. Once I could finally kneel in prayer and ask God to bless them and help them, everything got easier for me. The other thing was writing everything out in a journal. What the issues were, tracking the letters and encounters back and forth, identifying what would have to happen for a healthy relationship to exist, etc. That helped me stay righteous without straying into self-righteousness or bitterness or anger or what have you.

What helped my wife the most, was putting 668.4 miles between us and all of them. Other things were also helpful:

- Letting a few years go by after the move

- Having a supportive husband who let her move at her own pace

- Hearing validation and agreement from a bishop, a stake president, a visit to the temple, a blessing or two, an LSCW, and a shrink.

- Finding a person here and there who was raised in similar circumstances, who had managed to create a more or less healthy life for themselves in the decades since.

We've left the door open to her family, and clearly identified a few things they could do tomorrow if they wanted a relationship. Things that would give us an indication that they are no longer sources of harm and grief (or even just a good indication that they are trying). It's been 4 years, nothing so far. We leave room that something may happen on this side of the veil. If not, we hope that something can happen on the other side.

Anyway applepansy, there it is. A quick and easy way to divorce in-laws. Easy as pie, right?

I think pie is easier to make.

Thank you for your response.

[EarlJibbs]

There is mental illness involved, as well as inappropriate conduct that could be a huge warning sign for danger. We've been heeding that warning appropriately to keep our kids safe (which is a lot of the problem, if you want to call protecting your children a problem). The rest is just thoughtless, selfish, crappy behavior.

Keeping your kids safe is priority. I have a brother that smokes and drinks. My children are not allowed to sleep over to his house. I have another Brother that dropped my kids off at a babysitters house when they were sleeping over and my kids do not stay there anylonger either.

[Guest]

Thanks, anatess. That's kind of the direction I've been thinking in, but sometimes I need someone else to confirm that I'm not totally off track.

Eowyn, you know I'm this Filipino very family-oriented gal... and I am saying to avoid those two women... no, I don't think you're totally off track. I think you're very on track. There is only so much patience and fortitude we can handle in our fallen state.

Look on the brighter side. Your husband is perfect except for... them... small cross to bear to put your foot down on this and have your husband do the compromising. Right?

[MorningStar]

My grandma says really rude things and I've kind of turned it into a game. How many minutes will it take for Grandma to say something rude? What will inspire the comment? As for in-laws, most of mine are pretty great, but a sis-in-law is passive aggressive and I deal with her by giving her no reaction and I don't bend to what she wants.

[mirkwood]

I have a "civil" relationship with my fil/mil. It is all I can do to make it civil with FIL. FIL used to always try and manipulate my wife about our "relationship." She finally learned (with my coaching) to tell him to talk to me and not her. Rotten man whom I have no desire to have any kind of relationship with. He has terrible relationships with everyone in his family. Good luck, it is a hard row to hoe.

[Tyler90AZ]

The in-laws, such is life...

I have learned the less I see them the happier I am and my family is. It has came to me to just be cordial with them, but not have frequent visits. That is not after an attempt to heal wounds between us by going to their house to watch General Conference with them. After watching at least four different talks about forgiving and stop acting childish the time was right.

I put myself on the line, made myself vulnerable, and asked, " what do I have to do to get you to like me." His reply was, "you are not married to me." He said that to his own peril... Not out of vengeance for that petty statement, but out of knowing a relationship will never be established, I will not live near him or his wife my whole life. We have no family in AZ why would we stay? It just never made sense before, now it really doesn't make sense.

In the meantime, I have to deal with them occasionally and put up with their childish ways. Though I don't say they are at fault for the whole situation, 50 50. What I have done is decided I will treat them how I treat my parents. In addition, I don't let them get me mad any more. I actually have to thank them for helping me control my emotions. Also in the scriptures it says somewhere use your enemies as your footstool. I love that saying, I channel all the negative energy and put it to good use.

[Guest]

DH and I were up most of the night talking this through and I think we understand each other better now. He's behind me in whatever I feel I need to do, and I'm trying to make sure my choices are being made for the right reasons. Thanks for your help and input.

[garryw]

My current in laws are the best kind, I haven't met them, and probably never will.

My ex in laws a quite hilarious. Most of them think we are still good buddies, but one of them tries his utmost to offend me and even makes physical threats although he can't even walk up a flight of stairs. Turns out I "told on him" for beating his daughter (my ex as a child) in court as a reason for my kids not to spend time at his house, and that was supposed to be a family secret. Well it's on court record now and my ex didn't deny it, just said he's better now.

So in conclusion it's better to never meet them, than to know your in-laws.

[bcguy]

The #1 reason why couples divorce at least what I hear on the radio was because of interference from family members.

If you want to block there calls, I can set up a phone server account for you that you can block only there numbers from calling you, or putting there calls into a empty vmail bucket.

[Dravin]

So in conclusion it's better to never meet them, than to know your in-laws.

Okay, not all in-laws are horrible meddlers and otherwise unagreeable. I know it's a venting thread, but the best in-laws aren't ones that effectively don't exist, but are ones that understand and respect boundaries, and love you.

Edited June 9, 2012 by Dravin