Polygamy

[Holly3278]

Disclainer: playing devil's advocate, here, Snow.

What about the verse God is an unchanging God. Same yesterday, today and forever?

That was kind of part of the question but I forgot to include it. Thanks.

[blazius]

<div class='quotemain'>

I would like to ask about polygamy. I’m very interested in the LDS church but I have often wondered about this polygamous issue and why so many practiced it and then suddenly stopped.

Welcome blazius!...

I wouldn't say the practice suddenly stopped, it actually took about 14 years to really end.

M.

Ok, 14 years....I didn't realize this. But what about the rest of my comment? Listen: If I were a committed Mormon who lived the Word of Wisdom and everything else, would it be wrong in the eyes of the Lord to have three or four wives on an island that didn't have anti-polygamous laws? Would it be wrong to live there with my wives, faithfully raising my family?

I've also wondered, why were the men blessed with having more than one woman to have sex with and the women only had one man? Does the Lord consider this fair?

I'm not trying to be irreverent, just curious to know if anyone here has these answers.

thanks,

blazius

[LionHeart]

Anyway, just my thoughts. But also, don’t you all think that an outsider would look at someone like Brigham Young, who had many wives as just a man with a huge sexual appetite, and that’s why he did it? Couldn’t polygamy be a twice-blessed grand sexual scheme for the men involved? Blessed by the Lord for practicing it and blessed with all the women to have sex with? I don’t know, just some of my thoughts about it.

any help with this would be appreciated.

blazius

Actually, most of the men I have talked to on the issue feel that sex is not the issue; and would play no part in their decision to marry more than one woman. They say that they would not want to have more than one wife because of how stressful it would be. If it was only about the sex, they would just have an affair. This way, they don't go to jail.

[Dr T]

Hi L.H.,

Yet it would be sanctioned while an affair would not.

[blazius]

Actually, most of the men I have talked to on the issue feel that sex is not the issue; and would play no part in their decision to marry more than one woman.

Yes, sex would be a secondary issue, no doubt about it.....but come on, it would be a great added benefit for the men who practiced polygamy, right?

Seriously, how many religious men in this world would love to have legal, legitimate sex with more than one woman and have it stand good in the eyes of the Lord?

blazius

[Outshined]

Spoken like a single man, I'd say. Sex is a very small part of marriage; you have to get along with them the other 99.9% of the time as well....

[Dr T]

That only leaves .1 %

[sunny_surfer]

I say lets be truthful when it comes to this matter of polygamy. The only real reason why it was even established again was because of the massive killings of men and the widowed wifes who were left starving and fending for there families. Also it is important to mention that the woman were also being persecuted for there beliefs as well especially when joseph smith was placed into jail. there were numerous threats the men would go out and murder as well as commit horrible crimes against the female members of the church. We also have to understand that sometimes laws are set for a small period of time and then taken away again, ex the law of sacrificing your best flock unto the lord in the old testament, which was no longer placed or needed after the atoning sacrifice of the saviour. NOw I can probably say for sure that there were those members of the church who indeed liked the idea due of the law due to its laws of maltiple wifes and most likely there were more who were in it for the wrong reasons then there were those who were in it for the right reasons. I think the very point im trying to get across if any is that it was set for that very reason and is no longer sustainable or practiced and we really shouldnt duel on the that if the law hadent interveened then the church would still practice it. mainly because the constitution was inspired of God and God would have and indeed did know that the country which was founded and raised by him alone would not sustain an act for very long so, in short he placed that law because in my opinion he knew it was needed at the time due to the massive kills and the very survival of the church. and would know that it would not last long at all, and he would make it again a law against the church.

now hopefully i made some sense in all this but if not i do appologize.

[Fiannan]

Actually, the best reason for polygamy was that fewer men desired the responsibilities of family than women. Same is true today. Also, more women convert than men. Since the Bible says one should not be unequally yoked then it made more sense these women be married in polygamist situations than either remain single or have to marry non-members. Also, how many people in the Church today would not be here if it were not for polygamy?

Polygamy will eventually come back -- and I for one feel it's better to deal with polygamy honestly reather than make excuses for it. I had a professor who once made a really good case for polygamy from a biological point of view and nobody had a fit over it. If you present the scriptures and common sense it just makes it a practice we may see come back into the Church in our lifetimes. No biggie.

[sunny_surfer]

actually the very reason for polygamy was because of the widow wifes left from the persecution. I high disagree with you reason on why it came because the pioneers were out teaching the gospel at that time and many people were brought to the church because of it. also many of us would still be here if polygamy never happened maybe not in salt like since, but certainly in the rest of the world. I certainly wouldnt hold you breath on the idea that polygamy is gonna make a come back...and anyone who enbraces that idea then should not be a part of this church.

[babygirl]

Polygamy will eventually come back

i dont know where you got that idea buddy, but they have said polygamy will never come back.

[BenRaines]

I am not advocating it but I have never read scripture that says Polygamy will never come back.

On a totaly different line. Society believes that it is ok for couples to live together without getting married. We pay for babies being born without fathers present, only donors. Several states in the US allow same sex marriage. What is the big deal about polygamy?

I would rather see someone who accepts responsiblity for a large family than someone who goes out and as a donor has multiple offspring and the only reason he does it to brag about how many children he has spawned or how many baby mommas he has.

Again not promoting polygamy but in the world we live in one of the lesser problems.

Ben Raines

[babygirl]

Thats cuz its not in the scriptures, Gordan B. Hinckly said it(sunday morning session Oct. 4 1998)...not straight out, but unless the law changes which i doubt very very highly it will never happen

[BenRaines]

I would agree that while it is against the law it would not come back and I am not endorsing polygamy coming back but I don't recall reading that it will never, never is a long time, come back.

It is an eternal concept.

Ben Raines

[blazius]

can someone please address my question:

If I were a committed Mormon who lived the Word of Wisdom and everything else, would it be wrong in the eyes of the Lord to have three or four wives on an island that didn't have anti-polygamous laws? Would it be wrong to live there with my wives, faithfully raising my family?

Is there anyone here that is qualified to answer my question?

thank you,

blazius

[pushka]

I'm not 'qualified' to answer your question, but I can give it a guess...

I think, because the current LDS state that God forbade the practice of polygamy ANYWHERE in the world, not just in Utah, then it would still be wrong for you to live on your island in a polygamous relationship, regardless of whether or not the island allows those relationships in general.

[babygirl]

can someone please address my question:

If I were a committed Mormon who lived the Word of Wisdom and everything else, would it be wrong in the eyes of the Lord to have three or four wives on an island that didn't have anti-polygamous laws? Would it be wrong to live there with my wives, faithfully raising my family?

Is there anyone here that is qualified to answer my question?

thank you,

blazius

if you look at post # 38, and the talk by Gordan B. Hinckly he talks about that in there too

[Maureen]

I say lets be truthful when it comes to this matter of polygamy. The only real reason why it was even established again was because of the massive killings of men and the widowed wifes who were left starving and fending for there families....

Here's a different take on the truth...

…the great majority of his thirty-three well documented marriages, give or take a few because formal records were not always kept, occurred in 1841-44 in Nauvoo, Illinois. There he combined restorationist biblical polygamy with the idea that one gained a higher status in the next life based on the quantity of wives and offspring in this life. This gave the religious rationale for large plural families in later Mormonism. Thus, polygamy—called “celestial” (meaning heavenly) or “patriarchal” marriage after the polygamous patriarchs of the Old Testament such as Abraham and Jacob—was accepted as necessary for “exaltation,” the highest salvation in the Mormon heaven. Present-day Mormons generally accept that eternal monogamous marriage is sufficient for exaltation but also still anticipate that there will be polygamy in heaven. Joseph Smith experimented with polyandry, as well, by marrying eleven women who were already civilly married to other men.

With very few exceptions, such as the practice of marrying older women in order to provide for them or to form an alliance in the next life, polygamy was oriented toward childbearing…

…there are stories of polygamous husbands giving greater attention and financial assistance to favored wives, while less favored wives had a difficult time surviving financially and emotionally. Even in the best of plural marriages, a woman had only limited access to her husband’s time, resources, and emotional attention. To compensate, plural wives often developed especially close relationships with their children to make up for often distant husbands. Despite such problems, polygamy was regarded almost as the most central, highest revelation to Joseph Smith and a necessary prerequisite for complete salvation. It was widely accepted as a divinely inspired concept by church members, male and female. However, plural marriage was more widely practiced among the elite than among the church’s rank and file, a good number of the latter remaining monogamous. One myth about Mormon polygamy was that only about 2 or 3 percent of the church membership ever practiced polygamy. Actually, something like 20 or 30 percent of Latter-day Saints engaged in the practice depending on the statistical strategy one employs.

The motives for practicing polygamy, while primarily religious, also allowed for parallel objectives. Sometimes two prominent Mormon leaders cemented a friendship by one giving another his daughter (polygamy allowing such dynastic alliances to a greater degree than in monogamy). Sometimes polygamist men married widows or unmarried women to provide for them economically. Sometimes a man and a prospective plural wife felt a strong spiritual or emotional attraction.…

…During Smith’s lifetime, polygamy in Nauvoo and elsewhere was kept secret because it was also illegal…

…In 1854 the first Republican party platform inveighed against the “twin relics of barbarism” —slavery and polygamy—and after Congress passed the Merrill anti-Bigamy Act of 1862, Abraham Lincoln signed it into law. Believing that the revelations of God took precedence over laws of man, Mormons ignored it. Yet, the political pressure against polygamy increased throughout the century. Utah was still a territory and desperately seeking statehood so it could legalize polygamy; as it happened, polygamy was one of the central reasons Utah could not obtain statehood.

In 1882 Congress passed the Edmunds Act, which disfranchised Mormon polygamists and allowed them to be imprisoned on grounds of “unlawful cohabitation.” John Taylor, the church president at the time, remained defiant, vowing that Mormons would never forsake plural marriage. He went into hiding, as did many prominent polygamists at the time. Nevertheless, many Mormon men were arrested by federal marshals (much despised in Utah) and served terms in jail as “prisoners of conscience.”

In 1887 Congress passed the Edmunds-Tucker bill which required the church to give up its property to the federal government, including its prized temples. But the Mormons continued their counter-cultural quest: the church’s second in command, presidential counselor George Q. Cannon, served a term in prison for cohabitation in 1888. One of his statements is typical of the sentiment shared by many in the church at the time: “To comply with the request of our enemies [and give up polygamy] would be to give up all hope of ever entering into the glory of God, the Father, and Jesus Christ, the son. So intently interwoven is this precious doctrine [polygamy] with the exaltation of men and women in the great hereafter that it cannot be given up without giving up at the same time all hope of immortal glory.”

Nevertheless, legal and political pressure inevitably mounted until church president Wilford Woodruff, faced with the loss of all church facilities and any political influence in Utah, produced in 1890 what was called a “Manifesto” in which he stated that Mormons would give up plural marriage. This, along with the church’s commitment to staying out of politics, allowed Utah to become a state in 1896…

…The transition to monogamy was not easy because polygamy had played such a central role in Mormon doctrine and culture for so long. It was regarded as theologically necessary for complete salvation. Many church leaders therefore continued a sub rosa promotion of polygamy, inaugurating what has been called the post-Manifesto era. The Woodruff presidency, including George Q. Cannon and Joseph F. Smith, sent Mormons to church colonies in Mexico to be married plurally. Among the apostles (members of the second-highest quorum of the church), those who married plurally after the Manifesto included John W. Taylor, Brigham Young Jr., Marriner W. Merril, Abraham Owen Woodruff, Matthias F. Cowley, Rudger Clawson, Abraham Hoagland Cannon, and George Teasdale. Many of these marriages were solemnized in Mexico by Anthony Ivins, who later became a member of the First Presidency. Other post-Manifesto marriages were solemnized in Canada, shipboard on the Pacific Ocean, and in Utah and neighboring states.

Word of these secret marriages leaked out and anti-polygamy activists were infuriated. Apostle Reed Smoot, himself a monogamist, was elected a U.S. senator in 1904, but the Senate refused to fully accept him until it had examined the sincerity of LDS allegiance to its public Manifesto. The hearings were a great embarrassment to the LDS church. As a result, Joseph F. Smith released a “Second Manifesto” in 1904, reiterating that the church had abandoned polygamy….

http://www.signaturebookslibrary.org/essay...monpolygamy.htm

M.

[Snow]

Spoken like a single man, I'd say. Sex is a very small part of marriage; you have to get along with them the other 99.9% of the time as well....

Speaking as a married man, I'd say sex is a very big part of marriage.

I say lets be truthful when it comes to this matter of polygamy. The only real reason why it was even established again was because of the massive killings of men and the widowed wifes who were left starving and fending for there families.

False, false, false.

Of Joseph Smiths 30 or so wives, how many of them were widows of "massive killings" of their husbands?

Of all the policies, honesty is one of the best.

[Dr T]

M,

Thank you for the interesting information. :)

[blazius]

I'm not 'qualified' to answer your question, but I can give it a guess...

I think, because the current LDS state that God forbade the practice of polygamy ANYWHERE in the world, not just in Utah, then it would still be wrong for you to live on your island in a polygamous relationship, regardless of whether or not the island allows those relationships in general.

Can someone please tell me where and to whom God gave the command to cease the practice of polygamy?

thanks,

blazius

[Maureen]

Can someone please tell me where and to whom God gave the command to cease the practice of polygamy?

Go back and read Post #43 of this thread.

M.

[blazius]

As a result, Joseph F. Smith released a “Second Manifesto” in 1904, reiterating that the church had abandoned polygamy….

M.

Okay, but my question still remains: Did the Mormon Church give the command because of pressure from the United States government, or did the Mormon Church receive revelation from God to cease this practice?

If the Mormon Church received revelation from God, to whom did God give the revelation and at what point in time?

Also, doesn't it seem extremely convenient that God would give the command to cease polygamy at just the moment in time when Mormons were being persecuted for practicing polygamy? Does anyone have thoughts on this?

blazius

[Maureen]

<div class='quotemain'>

As a result, Joseph F. Smith released a “Second Manifesto” in 1904, reiterating that the church had abandoned polygamy….

Okay, but my question still remains: Did the Mormon Church give the command because of pressure from the United States government, or did the Mormon Church receive revelation from God to cease this practice?

That's for you to determine blazius from your sincere desire to know the truth.

M.

[CrimsonKairos]

Read the official declaration on polygamy in the Doctrine & Covenants. Your questions are answered there. What you do with the answers is up to you.