Will Members Of The Different Heavenly Kingdoms Get To Be Together?

[Holly3278]

Hello. I just learned that according to Mormon belief, there are different levels in Heaven. Some of my family members would go to one level and some to another. So, my question is, would I be able to talk to my other family members even though they'd be in different Heavenly kingdoms than I or would we be separated somehow?

[Dr T]

That is an interesting question. I would think separate, different spheres (is that correct?). That was why I was wondering about when they are sealed together. What if one family member turns out to be a murderer, what then?

Thanks,

Dr. T

[Blessed]

Our faith believes, not the Mormons, that the Celestrial Heaven is for those who lived out the celestrial life while on earth. They knew about the Gospel, accepted it and preached it elsewhere so others would know.

The Terrestrial are for the fine folk who led a good life, but were never given the chance to understand or hear the gospel.

The Telestrial are for those who had denied the gospel but after meeting Christ for the second time decided to claim Jesus is Lord and are therefore worthy of rightesouness.

The rest of the people all now know and have made the choice to decline God's eternal invitation and thus are thrown into the lake of fire.

[Gwen]

well, others may be able to explain it better or have references. my understanding of it is that the higher glories can visit the lower but the lower can not visit up. we will still see eachother but those who obtain a higher glory will have to visit those who do not. the biggest thing for me is that only in the highest will marriage be eternal, all others will be single.

i don't claim to know exactly how it all works, but i have family that if they continue on the path they are right now i beleive won't make it to the highest (not that i'm that confident of my own fate yet lol), and i know that with families being so important and the focus of this life i will not be removed eternally form that relationship (except outterdarkness i guess).

so anyway, families are an eternal principle and the earthly family we have is of great importance, i have faith that all will be dicided fairly. i have so much to worry about getting myself worthy that i'll have to leave the others in god's wonderful hands. :)

just my quick thoughts on it.

[Holly3278]

Our faith believes, not the Mormons, that the Celestrial Heaven is for those who lived out the celestrial life while on earth. They knew about the Gospel, accepted it and preached it elsewhere so others would know.

The Terrestrial are for the fine folk who led a good life, but were never given the chance to understand or hear the gospel.

The Telestrial are for those who had denied the gospel but after meeting Christ for the second time decided to claim Jesus is Lord and are therefore worthy of rightesouness.

The rest of the people all now know and have made the choice to decline God's eternal invitation and thus are thrown into the lake of fire.

This is interesting but it doesn't really answer my question. Will the people in the various kingdoms be separated from each other?

well, others may be able to explain it better or have references. my understanding of it is that the higher glories can visit the lower but the lower can not visit up. we will still see eachother but those who obtain a higher glory will have to visit those who do not. the biggest thing for me is that only in the highest will marriage be eternal, all others will be single.

i don't claim to know exactly how it all works, but i have family that if they continue on the path they are right now i beleive won't make it to the highest (not that i'm that confident of my own fate yet lol), and i know that with families being so important and the focus of this life i will not be removed eternally form that relationship (except outterdarkness i guess).

so anyway, families are an eternal principle and the earthly family we have is of great importance, i have faith that all will be dicided fairly. i have so much to worry about getting myself worthy that i'll have to leave the others in god's wonderful hands. :)

just my quick thoughts on it.

Thank you. That would certainly be interesting if I made it to the highest kingdom and was able to visit my family if they were in other kingdoms.

[Gwen]

Our faith believes, not the Mormons, that the Celestrial Heaven is for those who lived out the celestrial life while on earth. They knew about the Gospel, accepted it and preached it elsewhere so others would know.

The Terrestrial are for the fine folk who led a good life, but were never given the chance to understand or hear the gospel.

The Telestrial are for those who had denied the gospel but after meeting Christ for the second time decided to claim Jesus is Lord and are therefore worthy of rightesouness.

The rest of the people all now know and have made the choice to decline God's eternal invitation and thus are thrown into the lake of fire.

that is very interesting i did not know that the RLDS saw it so differently. thanks, i learned something today. :)

LDS believe that all will be given a chance to hear and accept the gospel before the judgement, either here or after death. so that would't fit for us. however we do beleive that your destination will be decided based on what you knew and what you did with what you knew. where much is given much is required. so a child born in a country where the gospel is not permitted and raised by drug runners and sees abuse everyday, who does something better (say gets out of the drug world and does not abuse family) will be judged on that. in the end will have equal opportunity as myself who has made covenents in the temple to receive the highest of glory. none will be left out due to uncontrolable circumstance.

that is my understanding anyway. :)

[Blessed]

ALmom,

I did not do a good job explaining that. We believe as you described it as well. God is a merciful God and would not let anyone fall to the wayside. He will give everyone a chance.

[inthearmsofsleep]

If one has attained the highest glory, they have inherited it all: the worthiness to be in contact with every level of glory at will. This means that those in lower levels of glory could still see friends/family who are higher, but not at will. It's just as people can be visited by angels, but we can't visit angels on our own unless we have achieved that level of glory. Given that one person in a family is a murderer and the rest have achieved the highest level of glory, I'm sure they would wish to visit them out of the goodness of their souls... after all, they would be perfect.

[Dr T]

Thanks ITAOS,

Would that be the glory in "this sphere"/universe? I thought LDS beleived in an unlimited amount of gods and their kingdom. Would you say they go to and fro?

Thanks

[Gwen]

ALmom,

I did not do a good job explaining that. We believe as you described it as well. God is a merciful God and would not let anyone fall to the wayside. He will give everyone a chance.

thank you for clarifying that for me blessed. :) now i'm curious though, what does the RLDS beleive about temples and work by proxy?

hope this off topic queston doesn't confuse anyone.

Dr. T, i always pictured it working like this world only bigger. in the since that we travel the world to and fro visiting our adult children or parents. why couldn't we do the same on a universe perspective rather than this earth. the most important sealing is to my husband. we will live together, and our children (from this life) will have their spouses. those will be the most important relationships. the rest of the family relationships will be visiting and get togethers. that is my take on it anyway.

[Dr T]

Thanks ALmom,

The difficulty I was having was not seeing it like a house or traveling from city to city but whole different universe with galaxies, planets, etc. Then I heard of families being sealed for time and eternity and I started thinking, those things don't seem to go together.

Thank you

[Blessed]

The RLDS or now known as Community of Christ have two temples. One in Independence, MO. It was built and dedicated to the pursuit of peace, healing of the spirit and reconcilation. It is open to all who care to enter it. We have a daily peace service at noon each day. Training for the priesthood are held there, but they are not closed. We have no temple rites or practices.

Our other temple you probably know very well and that is the Kirtland Temple. It is also open to all.

We do not believe in doing things by proxy. That was a belief, I believe, rejected by our church when the Reorganization happened by JS's son, JSIII.

Hope that helps.

[Gwen]

why couldn't we travel between galaxies? is there anywhere in the universe god can't go? if we become like our father, why would there be restrictions on where we could go? assuming the highest glory, those who do not attain will have limits, but why could we not visit them? all of this being on the grandiose assumption that i will be there visiting others, not waiting on them to come and visit me. lol i don't know how it will happen, but why would it be impossible?

The RLDS or now known as Community of Christ have two temples. One in Independence, MO. It was built and dedicated to the pursuit of peace, healing of the spirit and reconcilation. It is open to all who care to enter it. We have a daily peace service at noon each day. Training for the priesthood are held there, but they are not closed. We have no temple rites or practices.

Our other temple you probably know very well and that is the Kirtland Temple. It is also open to all.

We do not believe in doing things by proxy. That was a belief, I believe, rejected by our church when the Reorganization happened by JS's son, JSIII.

Hope that helps.

yes, thank you. so do you beleive that there are ordinances, like baptism, that are required for enterence into any of the kingdoms?

[Blessed]

Yes, you must be baptized in order to enter the celestrial kingdom.

We have several ordinances: marriage, baby blessing, baptism, confirmation, administration, and evangelist blessing and ordination into the priesthood

[Gwen]

so what do you do for those who live and die without opportunity to have these ordinances? say in countries where their freedom is limited and it is witheld from them.

[Blessed]

ALmom, I don't understand your question. What would "I" do? Please explain a little more.

[Gwen]

sorry, how does your faith or your understanding of things reconcile the delema? that you need baptism, that none will be deprived the opportunity of salvation, but some live and die without opportunity to have this ordinance.

[Blessed]

Oh I see. We believe when they die Christ will offer them the gospel and they will be able to attain one of the lesser kingdoms. I guess we who are responsible for spreading the gospel will be held accountable for their not being able to attain the celestrial. Atleast that is my understanding.

Now let me ask you a question... when you stand in proxy... you just assume they want this?

[Gwen]

when we put our children in school we assume they want an education. if when they are old enough they don't want one they are free to discontinue it. but we as parents know that an education is best and would rather them say 'you know i really didn't want that' then one day say 'why didn't you' education allows progression, but doesn't force it. you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink. standing proxy is leading to water, or opening a door. it is still up to the individual to drink or to go through the door. if they don't want it, and not all will, they simply don't need to accept. we stand proxy to both fulfill justice and mercy. justice demands the ordinances for progression. mercy says it's not right for someone who never had a chance to be punished for something out of their contorle. this way the justice is taken care of and how mercy is handled is between them and the lord. when christ was proxy for us in suffering for our sins durring the atonement, he assumed we all wanted it. weither or not i use the atonement and repent is up to me, but he opened the door because he loves me. i help open doors because i love my family and i was told by christ through his choosen leaders to do it. i was commanded to open the door for them, not to push them through. just my take on it. :)

[Dr T]

I never said God cannot go everywhere Almom. I was specifically talking about families sealed together for time and eternity being together forever. I saw the "being together" and "living apart/on their own" as contradictory. That's all. If it is really only about visiting and god can go anywhere, then what's the purpose of being sealed to your family?

Thanks

[Gwen]

ok, sorry for the misunderstanding. :) do you still have ties to your parents? what about your children, do you want to be a part of their adult lives? or your grandchildren? why would keeping in touch with your family here after you/they are grown be so important if their place in your life is over? i think we desire our family connections because in our hearts we know it is important. also for me it creates a physical connection to my Heavenly (spiritual) Father. he is the father of my spirit and by being physically sealed and following your family back through time, you will eventually in some way connect back to Christ (his physical son) as well as to Noah and Adam. this for me creates a physical connection to my spiritual father. in my mind that compleats the family circle so to speak. the eternal family circle where we are a family in body and spirit for eternity. that is my personal perspective on it. there are those who may or may not agree. but that is why it is important in my life, the physical, spiritual, eternal conection to those you love, have struggled through mortality and grown in spiritual stature with, and to my heavenly father.

[Blessed]

What if you are sealed to one man and then get divorced and are sealed to the next one???

[Gwen]

my husband was sealed to his first wife, they divorced, and then we were sealed. so yes that can become a concern. :) to every law or comand there is a preperation. if you can't live the law of tithing then you will not be asked to live the law of consecration (where you give all to the lord). why? well, if you can't handle 10% then you will never be able to handle 100%. marriage is the same way. if you can not live a convenant marriage here then you will have no promise of marriage in the next. being sealed is not a gaurentee, it is a contract. you create a contract between eachother and the lord. if you .....treat eachother like you should and live according to god's command.....then god......will allow your marriage to be eternal. if you don't keep a then god won't keep b. it's like the atonement. the door has been opened to repent, but if you do not then you have no forgiveness for your sins. there are no blank checks in this life. you must do something to get something. so, my husband, though there is paperwork that says he was sealed to his first wife, has no claim upon her and she has no claim upon him. they failed to keep their end of the contract and therefore have no promise to the other. even if my husband and i leave this life married, if our marriage was one that was inappropriate (abuse or such) then there will still be no promise. being sealed is an open door we must walk through together, if we do not then it means nothing. that goes for proxy as well, what if someone lived and died with the best possible marriage one could have in this life, and shared a love that could stand the span of eternity but did not ever know about the sealing ordinance. a mercyful and loving god would not force them to spend eternity single. someone would be sealed proxy thus opening the door for them to have the promise of an eternal marriage they lived worthy to. also if proxy is performed for a couple who is not worthy of such it does not give them a privliage they do not deserve, we just went through the motions, but it did nothing. it is not for me to decide if my ancesters are worthy of said blessings, that is god's job. it's my job to open the door so that justice can be given if it is decided they are worthy of said blessings.

[Dr T]

I think my real confusion comes more in the complexity of it all. Husband and wife, male children and their wives and all being sealed to their resective families, and starting their own worlds, etc who will be with whom? If it's just visiting then so what, as you said, god can go anywhere. It doesn't make sense to me.

Dr. T

[Traveler]

I think my real confusion comes more in the complexity of it all. Husband and wife, male children and their wives and all being sealed to their resective families, and starting their own worlds, etc who will be with whom? If it's just visiting then so what, as you said, god can go anywhere. It doesn't make sense to me.

Dr. T

I find it interesting that many believe a world must exist for a G-d to rule for a G-d to be a G-d. Dr. T. You and I have talked about the principles that what is really a G-d must exist before there can be creations and worlds and such things. By this same understanding - creation does not define G-d but that which is G-d defines creation.

The concept of sealing includes the concept of covenant and promise. Just as a husband and a wife covenant and promise to be faithful. What sealing does is complete the covenant. When a husband and a wife have established the marriage covenant through trials that establish their union; then their marriage can be eternal or everlasting. Such things do not happen because someone thinks they sound good. Nothing of value can be obtained without some investment. Without investment the true value cannot be realized.

When there is a sealing - this means that a covenant was sought, then the covenant was made, then the covenant was "vested" or proven in trial and then the blessing is awarded. That families are sealed means that the law and covenant of the family is established and those members are vested in the laws of family.

I would point out that there are strong forces that encourage disobedience to the principles of family in favor of satisfying personal pleasures and desires. This focus on individual passions and pleasures will prevent vesting for the sealing of families.

The Traveler