annewandering Posted June 23, 2012 Report Share Posted June 23, 2012 Sighs. You know we arent related to serial killers too right? Oh just minute. Bundy showed interest in the church. Lds and serial killers are related too! The church is not related to guns or serial killers or even wheat. It is about Jesus and God. it is demeaning to the church to say otherwise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hala401 Posted June 23, 2012 Author Report Share Posted June 23, 2012 Sighs. You know we arent related to serial killers too right? Oh just minute. Bundy showed interest in the church. Lds and serial killers are related too! The church is not related to guns or serial killers or even wheat. It is about Jesus and God. it is demeaning to the church to say otherwise.To me, a gun is a tool as common as a garden hoe or a shovel. I do not believe that they are to be ornamented with fine work or glorified. They are to be used to gather food and to protect the innocent from predators both 4 legged and two legged. In my opinion, one who would attack a human with the intent to do bodily harm is not human.Where I was raised, the doors were never locked, and a loaded rifle stood by the back door, facing the stock. It's purpose was to kill predators.I struggled with reading the book of Mormon when I came to passages where the Nephites layed down their arms and allowed the enemy to kill them. Now, I do not know if I could allow that to happen. I would need strength from somewhere not within me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hala401 Posted June 23, 2012 Author Report Share Posted June 23, 2012 No matter what anne actually meant by those words, the words themselves could not be further from the truth.John Moses Browning, firearms designer, arguably the most important person in the development of modern semi-auto and full auto firearms, credited with 128 gun patents, inventor of the 1911A and the Browning .50 cal machine gun, was a Mormon. He was born in Ogden Utah and served a mission to Georgia in 1887. A sizeable percentage of operational firearms on planet earth today, still operate on principles and designs he created.His father, Jonathan Browning, had a gun shop in Nauvoo that has been restored as a museum and is still part of the church tours. The guns he made at that time were imprinted with "Holiness to the Lord - Our Preservation." He made the trip with Brigham and the pioneers.Our history is replete with fascinating accounts of us both taking up arms to defend, and laying them down to promote peace. At the top of it's game, the Nauvoo leigon was the biggest military force in Illinois. Mormons have been in our nation's armed forces since the pioneer days. Mormons fought on both sides in WWII. LDS are over-represented in federal arms-bearing professions like the CIA and secret service. I had a bishop in Utah who had a conceal-carry permit. One Sunday here in Colorado, we had more of our senior ward leadership out hunting than we did up on the stand.Yes indeed, without fear of any relevant contradiction, LDS and guns are most certainly related.I did not know that. I know nothing of pistol design, but I know that the pistol I carried in the Military Police was brutal to my little hand, though I could tolerate it if I did everything I was taught. Later when I owned a Ruger p-90 .45, the pistol was a sweety. I do not understand why the Army one punished me so badly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 23, 2012 Report Share Posted June 23, 2012 Considering past events, I am quite certain that when the building is occupied on Sunday, that someone is quite able to take care of any unrulies. We have a couple men in our Ward that I will never say anything but Sir to.What past events? Are you saying that you feel threatened by men in your ward and that they are carrying firearms? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hala401 Posted June 23, 2012 Author Report Share Posted June 23, 2012 What past events? Are you saying that you feel threatened by men in your ward and that they are carrying firearms?What? On the contrary, I feel comforted by those who would feel the need to protect us. That they are armed, I can not say, perhaps not. I know a certain church in Colorado that had armed guards for a while, but it was not LDS.My last time in a NON LDS church was in 2004, and I know that the pastor and security team were very concerned. There are some realities that many do not want to face. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 23, 2012 Report Share Posted June 23, 2012 I don't mind reality but I don't want just any crazy person walking around with a gun, especially in church where my children are in primary. A PO maybe or someone else who has had evaluations and training to be qualified. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hala401 Posted June 23, 2012 Author Report Share Posted June 23, 2012 I don't mind reality but I don't want just any crazy person walking around with a gun, especially in church where my children are in primary. A PO maybe or someone else who has had evaluations and training to be qualified.I don't understand now a simple question about a gun could get to this point. Yet, I agree with you that it should not be necessary for anyone in our Wards to carry a weapon. It is no doubt that there are men with us who would be quite prepared to confront someone bent on harming someone.And, there is the protection that Heavenly Father extends to us.I am sorry that this conversation strayed so far from my intent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 23, 2012 Report Share Posted June 23, 2012 When one is vague and cryptic, it leaves gaps for others to fill in, that's all. I couldn't make out what you were getting at and I apparently misunderstood. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hala401 Posted June 23, 2012 Author Report Share Posted June 23, 2012 I was vague and cryptic. I am sorry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skippy740 Posted June 23, 2012 Report Share Posted June 23, 2012 (edited) My avatar is a picture of me and my missionary companion at the time in a gun supply store in the Sevierville, TN area - owned and operated by an active LDS member. (No, the guns weren't loaded and yes, it was probably a violation of mission rules. Oh well!) :) So there ARE plenty of members who are into and knowledgeable about guns and artillary. However, I am not one of those (yet). :) Edited June 23, 2012 by skippy740 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hala401 Posted June 23, 2012 Author Report Share Posted June 23, 2012 My avatar is a picture of me and my missionary companion at the time in a gun supply store in the Sevierville, TN area - owned and operated by an active LDS member. (No, the guns weren't loaded and yes, it was probably a violation of mission rules. Oh well!) :)So there ARE plenty of members who are into and knowledgeable about guns and artillary.However, I am not one of those (yet). :)In 66-69' I had military training and the main weapon was the .45 acp. I was well trained and competent in it's use as a Military Policewoman, however most of my time was at the desk.The problem now days is that Heavenly Father has tamed me, and I am not sure I would use it, unless for the purpose of protecting someone. It is sometimes difficult to put love, compassion and the killer instinct into the same bottle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
annewandering Posted June 23, 2012 Report Share Posted June 23, 2012 In 66-69' I had military training and the main weapon was the .45 acp. I was well trained and competent in it's use as a Military Policewoman, however most of my time was at the desk.The problem now days is that Heavenly Father has tamed me, and I am not sure I would use it, unless for the purpose of protecting someone. It is sometimes difficult to put love, compassion and the killer instinct into the same bottle.Sometimes its hard to take them out of the same bottle. I have talked about this on here before but I did have that decision one time. My choice was 'cunning' and 'faking'. The gun stayed under the pillow and no one got hurt. We did move the next day. ^^ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hala401 Posted June 23, 2012 Author Report Share Posted June 23, 2012 Sometimes its hard to take them out of the same bottle. I have talked about this on here before but I did have that decision one time. My choice was 'cunning' and 'faking'. The gun stayed under the pillow and no one got hurt. We did move the next day. ^^I live in a house with three other people; a woman and two men. Sometimes, I feel like none of them has a lick of sense. I'm old enough to be their Mother. One of them has the anoying habit of leaving the house unlocked. I am concerned because the young woman in the house sleeps next to my room and I was recently surprised to find out that I sleep the sleep of the dead. So, I would not be a lot of use to protect her if someone gets in.Today, I did tell the errant roomate that if someone I did not know came into my room, I would shoot them. In the course of our talking, I realised that an intruder could take what he wanted and it would just go by me, like the other roomies. But if I found someone molesting my roomate, I would not accept that at all.He did seem to finally tumble to the idea that a woman is in more danger than a man and that she might be worth protecting. Gosh, where do the men today come from? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mirkwood Posted June 23, 2012 Report Share Posted June 23, 2012 I have 15 years in law enforcement. I've carried a Glock 17 for fourteen of the fifteen years. It is the best pistol I have used (yes you pagans I have shot other handguns). The most important thing is to find a gun that YOU are comfortable with. The different gun/caliber arguements are like the different car/make/model arguements. That said, with your age, you may find a 9mm easier on the body then the .40 or .45. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hala401 Posted June 23, 2012 Author Report Share Posted June 23, 2012 I have 15 years in law enforcement. I've carried a Glock 17 for fourteen of the fifteen years. It is the best pistol I have used (yes you pagans I have shot other handguns). The most important thing is to find a gun that YOU are comfortable with. The different gun/caliber arguements are like the different car/make/model arguements. That said, with your age, you may find a 9mm easier on the body then the .40 or .45.I appreciate your input on this matter. My training was Military, and I think that perhaps the philosophy is different. I don't know how civil police are taught to view a threat. My own idea is that a single well placed shot should eliminate a threat, and I am not likely to view anyone as a threat unless they are <21 feet because that is the law here in Oregon.Of course, I have never fired a weapon in a threat situation, so I suspect that a lot of the stationary target, sight picture stuff goes right out the window in the heat of a situation. And, frankly I am not completely sure how I will respond until it happens, but I am told that lots of training can help.Do you think a 9mm will stop someone on the first shot? I am pretty certain a .45 acp will or am I wrong? The military version of the .45 auto was punishing, but the Ruger p-90 was perhaps half the kick and I do not know why. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hala401 Posted June 23, 2012 Author Report Share Posted June 23, 2012 In addition to my above comments, I worry that I don't understand what goes through the mind of an officer when he must shoot a perpetrator. Here in Portland, we have had several incidents where several officers have put dozens of bullets into the same person. So, I am confused, why more than one? Are there legal ramifications that I just do not understand? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClickyClack Posted June 23, 2012 Report Share Posted June 23, 2012 Do you think a 9mm will stop someone on the first shot? I am pretty certain a .45 acp will or am I wrong? .Thirty or forty years ago, when bullet technology sucked, the .45 having superior performance due to size had some merit. But, with vastly improved bullets tailored to the caliber, it's not even an argument worth having these days.Also, 30 or 40 years ago, finding a good, quality, trustworthy pistol gave you very few options. These days, there are so many good options that picking your preference (or picking nits) among the good ones is the hardest part.So there ARE plenty of members who are into and knowledgeable about guns and artillary.In my ward, it seems like you're nobody if you don't have your concealed weapons permit. I find out about new families that got them on a seemingly regular basis. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hala401 Posted June 23, 2012 Author Report Share Posted June 23, 2012 My goodness, I guess you have reminded me that my service was 40 years ago; something that seems like an all too harsh realisation. :) After reading all these posts, I begin to understand that my experience is severely dated. When I was growing up, both my brothers got 22 rifles when they were 12 years old. I did not, a fact that stuck in my craw for a long time! Admittedly, that .45 pistol is really the only weapon I ever had extended contact with. Even the rifle that stood at the back door was off limits to me! I've had two officers tell me that they carry 9 pistols. What would you suggest? I think I prefer an auto pistol, but the size, I do not know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bini Posted June 23, 2012 Report Share Posted June 23, 2012 Good heck. Don't you guys get tired of the gun debates and the homosexual debates and the.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mirkwood Posted June 23, 2012 Report Share Posted June 23, 2012 Don't you guys get tired of the gun debatesGood heavens no. There are so many heathens and pagans not shooting Glock's that the missionary work MUST continue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mirkwood Posted June 23, 2012 Report Share Posted June 23, 2012 Hala, I have some answers to your questions, but not the time right now. I'll get back to you later tonight on what you asked about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClickyClack Posted June 23, 2012 Report Share Posted June 23, 2012 What would you suggest? I think I prefer an auto pistol, but the size, I do not know.Well, you kind of have to figure out the size first. There are plenty of high-quality pistols from tiny to full-sized, so going to a range that rents guns and trying a few out might be the way to go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hala401 Posted June 23, 2012 Author Report Share Posted June 23, 2012 Good heavens no. There are so many heathens and pagans not shooting Glock's that the missionary work MUST continue.Where is the laugh icon? LOL I made my own. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hala401 Posted June 23, 2012 Author Report Share Posted June 23, 2012 Well, you kind of have to figure out the size first. There are plenty of high-quality pistols from tiny to full-sized, so going to a range that rents guns and trying a few out might be the way to go.I really like the .45 auto, especially the Ruger p-90, which is a ***** cat to shoot. The Military version is a woman killer. The problem with those big guns is that they break the straps on my purse, and make a lot of noise if they fall out in the Loo. How embarassing to be looking for blush and pull out a pistol !If I thought a .22 would stop someone, I'd do it. Those head shots are so hard though. You gotta get them so their nose hairs are almost sticking in the barrel before you shoot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iggy Posted June 23, 2012 Report Share Posted June 23, 2012 Good heavens no. There are so many heathens and pagans not shooting Glock's that the missionary work MUST continue.Where, where, OH WHERE is the Laugh button????? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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