Is "stranger danger" a myth

[annewandering]

And if Family, Friends, and Church aren't available?

We have to make our own priority list but I am going to bet that strangers off the street are not going to top any of our lists.

[Backroads]

I don't intend them to. I'm just saying that sometimes we might have to rely on other people that aren't on our priority lists.

[prisonchaplain]

I think most of us agree that children should not be taught that strangers are dangerous. On the other hand, we also agree that we should trust our intuition. Children need to "good touch bad touch," as well as being careful not to be isolated with a stranger.

Where society seems to have gone overboard is in labeling "sex-offenders" as certain-reoffenders, and in creating so much fear that we do not allow our children the freedom to socialize casually. I'm guilty too. I have denied permission for sleepovers. Ironically, it kinda stung when one of our daughter's friends got picked up at 8:30PM because momma was okay with the sleepover, but when daddy found out he said no.

This may be the new normal, but I sure lament it.

[annewandering]

I wish my parents had been more suspicious and more knowledgable.

[Bini]

I attended a Stranger Danger class held at an elementary school a couple years ago. I appreciated the emphasis on "safe strangers", such as a police officer, store clerk, mailman, or a parent with children. Of course there are always exceptions, even with the supposed "safe stranger" list but it taught children that when you need help, and you're alone, these are people you can approach.

I will be teaching my daughter about the "purple circle" rule. If someone (anyone) crowds your personal space, and you feel uncomfortable, hold out an arm's length and say, "Too close." Most people will get that. I'll also be teaching my daughter not to accept consumables from strangers, or get into stranger's cars. Sometimes, people mean well but it only takes one time for something to go terribly wrong in these two cases, so precaution is necessary.

[EarlJibbs]

I attended a Stranger Danger class held at an elementary school a couple years ago. I appreciated the emphasis on "safe strangers", such as a police officer, store clerk, mailman, or a parent with children. Of course there are always exceptions, even with the supposed "safe stranger" list but it taught children that when you need help, and you're alone, these are people you can approach.

I will be teaching my daughter about the "purple circle" rule. If someone (anyone) crowds your personal space, and you feel uncomfortable, hold out an arm's length and say, "Too close." Most people will get that. I'll also be teaching my daughter not to accept consumables from strangers, or get into stranger's cars. Sometimes, people mean well but it only takes one time for something to go terribly wrong in these two cases, so precaution is necessary.

Getting into strangers cars... that made me think of an experience in my life. In elementary I once was ganged up on and was in a fight with multiple people. After I was done whooping on everyone (okay, maybe I didnt quite look like Chuck Norris) I was bawling my way home, which was quite far away. A lady pulled up in a car and asked if I was okay. I told her I was. She asked if I wanted a ride home. She looked perfectly normal and I said yes. Nothing happened. I got home safely. I did remember "stranger danger" talk, never to get into a car with someone I didnt know, but I wanted to get home and she seemed harmless. I did not however tell my parents because I knew that I would have had the talking to of a lifetime. I am grateful for the ride the lady gave me, but have often thought about what could have happened. I have family that was involved with neighbors taking advantage and it really screwed them up. Unfortunately, this is really the time we live in. I have a feeling that it will only get worse.

[Vort]

Getting into strangers cars... that made me think of an experience in my life. In elementary I once was ganged up on and was in a fight with multiple people. After I was done whooping on everyone (okay, maybe I didnt quite look like Chuck Norris) I was bawling my way home, which was quite far away. A lady pulled up in a car and asked if I was okay. I told her I was. She asked if I wanted a ride home. She looked perfectly normal and I said yes. Nothing happened. I got home safely. I did remember "stranger danger" talk, never to get into a car with someone I didnt know, but I wanted to get home and she seemed harmless. I did not however tell my parents because I knew that I would have had the talking to of a lifetime. I am grateful for the ride the lady gave me, but have often thought about what could have happened. I have family that was involved with neighbors taking advantage and it really screwed them up. Unfortunately, this is really the time we live in. I have a feeling that it will only get worse.

Dangerous for the person offering the ride, too. All it takes is a false accusation from a child and your life can be ruined. Look what false rape allegations have done to innocent men, then imagine a child leveling charges of rape or molestation.

[Backroads]

I will say getting into a stranger's car goes against all common sense. I will be teaching my children not to go off with any stranger. I just see no problem with conversation.

[Guest LiterateParakeet]

Forgive me if I misinterpreted you--but it did sound like your talk on total stranger danger was banning any communication with anyone in the community.

I see where the miscommunication came in now...I believe you are getting me mixed up with someone else. While I do think cautiousness with strangers is warranted, my major emphasis, is on listening to your "instinct" regarding friiends and family. (see my post which was the second in this thread.) All the victims of sexual abuse that I know (people talk to me about their experiences sometimes since I blog about healing from this) were victimized by a family member, friend, or even one...by a Primary teacher (the church no longer allows men to teach primary alone).

Of course, I don't mean that we should estrange ourselves from our families either...but when the Spirit speaks, don't rationalize, and minimze (yep another deBecker-ism). Take action. Many years ago, I felt uncomfortable with one of my nephews. I talked to my husband, and he agreed. We didn't make a scene (though we did warn a family member that also had small children). We still showed love toward this nephew, but we NEVER left our children unattended with him.

And we were right. He served time for child molestation...all family members. So my point is that we should listen when our gut says there is something not right about Uncle Joe, or whoever.

[Bini]

Getting into strangers cars... that made me think of an experience in my life. In elementary I once was ganged up on and was in a fight with multiple people. After I was done whooping on everyone (okay, maybe I didnt quite look like Chuck Norris) I was bawling my way home, which was quite far away. A lady pulled up in a car and asked if I was okay. I told her I was. She asked if I wanted a ride home. She looked perfectly normal and I said yes. Nothing happened. I got home safely. I did remember "stranger danger" talk, never to get into a car with someone I didnt know, but I wanted to get home and she seemed harmless. I did not however tell my parents because I knew that I would have had the talking to of a lifetime. I am grateful for the ride the lady gave me, but have often thought about what could have happened. I have family that was involved with neighbors taking advantage and it really screwed them up. Unfortunately, this is really the time we live in. I have a feeling that it will only get worse.

Thinking some more. Children aren't the only ones susceptible to stranger danger. Adults are, too. I can't remember if the segment was on Dateline or 20/20 but it covered several stories about college-aged women that put trust in strangers, which led to their untimely demise. Unfortunately, I think sometimes we forget to use common sense as grown-ups, and we land ourselves in hot water.

My own ignoring of stranger danger was less than five years ago. I was down in Las Vegas on Superbowl weekend with some friends, and that's where I ran into, and met my then-boyfriend-now-husband. First impression, he was handsome, carried himself well, seemed normal. I broke off with those friends and ended up spending that entire weekend with him. The only contact I kept with my friends was via cell phone. That's kind of an unwise move for a young woman. But I got lucky. Turns out he's a great guy, and now, he's a wonderful husband and father. Still, things could have been very different if he were a different kind of man.

[Backroads]

Thanks for further explanation. I'm very much all for trusting instinct--I just don't believe in blind and thoughtless judgments as I find those completely different from instinct and gut feelings. I've seen too many people rely on blind thoughtless judgment and it hurts people.

[Guest LiterateParakeet]

then imagine a child leveling charges of rape or molestation.

I don't believe children lie about such things, however, I am aware one circumstance where a girl I worked with (in juvenile detention) blamed her dead uncle for the abuse. As staff we believed her father was likely the actual abuser and she was protecting him for whatever reason (love or fear, who can say).

Believe the children.

[Backroads]

I wish my parents had been more suspicious and more knowledgable.

I hope I can say this without any disrespect to you or people (I've known plenty of people involved with molestation, I really don't consider myself completely innocent and naive on the subject) but why is it that every time something goes wrong we beat up ourselves and/or others for not being careful enough, safe enough, prepared enough, smart enough, etc. I believe we live in a society where the minimum of protection is to protect yourself against freak accidents. Yes, we should be prepared. Yes, we should be reasonable cautious. Yes, we shouldn't put ourselves into unnecessary danger. But sometimes no matter what we do, stuff happens. Guilt isn't healthy.

[Bini]

I don't believe children lie about such things, however, I am aware one circumstance where a girl I worked with (in juvenile detention) blamed her dead uncle for the abuse. As staff we believed her father was likely the actual abuser and she was protecting him for whatever reason (love or fear, who can say).

Believe the children.

I would agree that most children aren't going to makeup some wild story of rape or molestation. I actually believe the contrary, a child that is raped or molested, is likely to say nothing. But to just accuse for no real reason, especially, when it is a stranger and not someone they know who they're trying to get "even" with? I would think that this behaviour is far from the norm.

[Backroads]

I don't believe children lie about such things, however, I am aware one circumstance where a girl I worked with (in juvenile detention) blamed her dead uncle for the abuse. As staff we believed her father was likely the actual abuser and she was protecting him for whatever reason (love or fear, who can say).

Believe the children.

This is a grey area for me, though I do believe any child's claim (or anyone's claim) should be given fair investigation. I recall reading an article where a girl, in order to punish her father for something rather silly, accused him of molesting her. She was in elementary school at the time, knew enough to put together a good story... but was too young to fully understand the consequences for her father. She confessed years later. Ruined the family.

Some children know more than you think they might and do know how to work people.

[Bini]

This is a grey area for me, though I do believe any child's claim (or anyone's claim) should be given fair investigation. I recall reading an article where a girl, in order to punish her father for something rather silly, accused him of molesting her. She was in elementary school at the time, knew enough to put together a good story... but was too young to fully understand the consequences for her father. She confessed years later. Ruined the family.

Some children know more than you think they might and do know how to work people.

Could have been an article I posted on the forum a while ago.

I don't disagree that it never happens. Sure it does. I don't believe it is the norm. I don't believe that children, in general, would make up wild allegations just 'cause. Especially in the scenario that Vort suggested. Why make up some crazy story over a stranger? It seems that IF such a scenario took place, it would be over someone the child knew.. a relative or family friend. Even so, I don't believe this is normal child behaviour.

I personally won't be taking my daughter's accusations lightly. If she says to me, "Mum, so-and-so touched me here" - I'm gonna get to the bottom of it, and not brush it off my shoulder.

[Backroads]

I don't find it to be normal, either. I think I was just spilling random thoughts that not all children are trustworthy.

I certainly would never brush off any accusation told to me on the matter. All accusations deserve investigation.

[Vort]

I don't believe children lie about such things

And yet they do, whether or not you believe it.

[Vort]

I personally won't be taking my daughter's accusations lightly. If she says to me, "Mum, so-and-so touched me here" - I'm gonna get to the bottom of it, and not brush it off my shoulder.

I agree. I, too, would take any such thing told me by my child very seriously indeed.

But to say "children don't lie about such things" is as ignorant and dangerous as saying "women never lie about being raped". Believing such nonsensical finalities invites abuse.

[Misshalfway]

And yet they do, whether or not you believe it.

It happens. I think we need to listen to the children without quick dismissals. I think we need to validate them until we know more. But kids really do tell lies about this stuff and some do it maliciously.

(Sorry. I'm going to edit my remarks and remove the story I just shared. I thought better about sharing it. Please excuse me.)

Edited September 5, 2012 by Misshalfway

[Backroads]

It happens. I think we need to listen to the children without quick dismissals. I think we need to validate them until we know more. But kids really do tell lies about this stuff and some do it maliciously.

I know of a case where an adult son raised allegations against his father about events that he alleged happened in childhood. The son's wife is bipolar and very religious in her manic delusions. She is fueling the case against this father. Sadly and confusingly, the son has completely bought into it. It's such a sad, destructive story. They have pretty much ruined the father's life.

Indeed, things happened.

My aunt, years ago, tried to raise alligations of abuse against... pretty much everyone in the family.

[prisonchaplain]

Worst case I ever saw was a 17-year old who, after having "reparative therapy" (a practice very much discredited by psychologists) who accused her father of molesting her. She gave graphic details, and it ultimately led to a lawsuit. The father claimed total innocence. After over two years, his attorney had the sense to call for a medical exam. The doctor's conclusion was that this young lady was still a virgin.

I suspect the girl really came to believe her accusations. But reaffirming unconfirmed accusations created a terrible episode for this family and the community involved.

No easy answers here. Slogans are wonderful and true-sounding. But spiritual discernment is so much better. Admitting ignorance is superior to an empathy that just may end up cascading a false accusation into some monstrous.

(I was at this church when it was going one): Family Settles Suit on 'Repressed Memory' - Los Angeles Times

Edited September 5, 2012 by prisonchaplain

[Guest]

And then there are situations like this:

More victims found in daycare worker abuse case | KTVB.COM Boise

[Backroads]

And then there are situations like this:

More victims found in daycare worker abuse case | KTVB.COM Boise

That's just tragic...

[Guest LiterateParakeet]

But to say "children don't lie about such things" is as ignorant and dangerous as saying "women never lie about being raped". Believing such nonsensical finalities invites abuse.

Ignorant, dangerous, nonsensical...you're not one of those people who results to insults to make their point, particularly when they find they have run out of facts are you?

Let's find some statistics shall we? Let's see if we can compare the number of children/women who are actually abused with those who cry wolf. Which number do you think will be higher? And yet which one seems to stay in people's minds?

Children and women are afraid to tell for this very reason...they are afraid they will not be believed. My mother didn't believe me, and I didn't bother to tell anyone else (the punishment I received from my abuser made sure I would never tell another person.)

This is just like what Gavin deBecker talked about people will drive without their seatbelt, smoke cigarettes, and all kinds of other unhealthy behaviour, but then cancel their European vacation because they are afraid of airline terrorists.

Why do we do such nonsensical (to use your term) things? Because we don't want to face ther REAL dangers and threats in our lives.

Being in denial about the children and women that are abused, focusing on a few that lie is the same thing. People do this to make themselves feel better. And because of that denial abuse and wickedness are allowed to thrive.