Angels as Sons and Daughters of God

[Vort]

Good afternoon Vort. I hope you've had a good week! :)

Pretty good so far, thanks. BYU whupped Wazzu. I don't normally celebrate a WSU loss, but this was an exception. This week it's two of my alma maters playing each other, so I'm sure to win either way.

"Father" and "brother" are biological relationships. How does human mortal biology apply to premortal spirits? Answer: It doesn't

In what sense do you think this statement is true? Can you clarify this position any or do you feel that it is a self evident truth?

Human mortal biology features blood. As far as I know, spiritual bodies have no such fluid.

Human mortal biology features digestive processes. As far as I know, spiritual bodies have no such processes.

Human mortal biology features procreation. As far as I know, spiritual bodies are unable to procreate.

More specifically, human mortal biology defines a "father" as the originator of the spermatozoon from which the organism under consideration developed. At this time, we have no knowledge about (and perhaps no possible way of knowing) whether, if, or how such a principle might apply to spiritual beings. When we call God our spiritual "Father", we do not necessarily mean to say that God provided a spermatozoon that fertilized a receptive ovum and began cellular reproduction that resulted in the production of an organism which was our spirit. Insofar as the biological term "father" is used, calling God our "Father" is metaphorical, not biologically literal.

Having said that, I also quickly acknowledge that God's "Fatherhood" is as real and as intimate as, and probably much more "real" and intimate than, our biological fathers' "fatherhood". Which is why I wrote what you question next.

We call God our "Father" because it's the closest relationship we know that resembles God's relationship to us. But God's relationship to us is much closer than, and intimately different from, that of a biological father to his son or daughter.

In what way is God's relationship to us "intimately different" from that of a biological father to his child?

As I explained above, "father" as a biological term has specific meanings which may or may not apply to God, and if they do, may or may not be easily understood. I already gave the strict physical example of the genesis of human life and what "father" means in that respect.

This is equally true in other respects. For example, I can offer counsel and guidance to my adult son, but I have no authority to give him intimate direction, and I cannot pretend to be able to offer him absolution of his wrongdoings, except perhaps as pertains directly and individually to me. In contrast, God has such abilities. When my son marries, he probably will not (and probably should not) come to me with any marital difficulties he might have, but he can and should go to God. So while we are both called "father", our roles are in fact intimately different.

[mordorbund]

Pretty good so far, thanks. BYU whupped Wazzu. I don't normally celebrate a WSU loss, but this was an exception. This week it's two of my alma maters playing each other, so I'm sure to win either way.

I hear to celebrate the occasion, single women over 50 got into the game for free.

[pam]

I hear to celebrate the occasion, single women over 50 got into the game for free.

What??? I could have gone to the game for free?

[Gramajane]

when I first heard the "brothers" thing, I was shocked myself, as in all my 64 years in FULL activity in the church, I had never seen them put in that close proximity- but there actually is in the book of Job, where it says that Satan came among (being included in the group) of the 'sons of God' . --- talk about your "black sheep" in the family. --- but then he was also cast out of heaven, and will never get a body, while Jesus is on such a higher plane, as a member of the Godhead.

Yes, it is an intentional slam, and I have had difficulty with one of my friends of another faith insisting that LDS emphasize it (duh= NOT!)

There is also a scripture (I remember what they say but not usually the book, chapter and verse

where it says that the members were afraid as they assumed it was Pauls "angel"

(here meaning spirit without his body as they assumed he was dead or in prison)

--- anyway-

it is interesting to go with the Topical Guide searching subjects (though all related scriptures are not listed : / there are most of the main ones, and that helps in study. Have fun! The restored gospel is true and the more indepth you study, the more it proves its self :)

--- also, there is a scripture that ONLY the Father, not the son, or the angels in heaven know the day and hour of the Sons returning--- to me that seems pretty clear that they are not the same being.

There is a series starting in Meridian Magazine (online- free) about the Trinity and the creeds. Good stuff!

[bytebear]

Revelation 22

8 And I John saw these things, and heard them. And when I had heard and seen, I fell down to worship before the feet of the angel which shewed me these things.

9 Then saith he unto me, See thou do it not: for I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren the prophets, and of them which keep the sayings of this book: worship God.

In these verses, an angel appears to John and John begins to worship him, but the angel stops him and tells him that he was essentially a former prophet who is now an angel.