carlimac Posted November 8, 2012 Report Share Posted November 8, 2012 ADAM (original Facebook posting): Well, Obama won, the Republicans retained the House, gay marriage gains approved, and guess what? The world didn't end.BOB: Well, Hitler killed six million Jews, terrorists flew airplanes into the WTC, and a family was wiped out in an automobile accident. And guess what? The world didn't end. But the fact that the world didn't end does not mean those things were not bad or hurtful.CATHY: Oh, very nice, Bob, comparing Obama to Hitler. Nothing extreme about that. :)BOB: Cathy, I didn't compare Obama to Hitler. I said that Adam's observation that "the world didn't end" doesn't mean the things he mentioned were of no consequence. Not sure how to make this any clearer. Did you also think I was comparing Obama's re-election to a family being wiped out? Or was it just the Hitler thing?CATHY: You compared Obama's reelection to Hitler's genocide (and the WTC bombings). I think my interpretation was perfectly reasonable.BOB: No, I did not. Again, I don't know how to make this any clearer.************************What say ye? Was Cathy's interpretation perfectly reasonable? Was Bob's invocation of Godwin's Law reasonably interpreted as a comparison with Obama? Bob's comparison was meant to be emotionally charged. Cathy's interpretation was a bit hysterical and unreasonable (so Bob got what he was after?). And even though you didn't ask, Adam's comment was inane. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarginOfError Posted November 8, 2012 Report Share Posted November 8, 2012 (edited) So to wrap up, Adam gets to look silly, Cathy gets to look stupid, and Bob gets to look like a . Everybody wins! Edited November 8, 2012 by Eowyn swearing not allowed (even bleeped out) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
annewandering Posted November 8, 2012 Report Share Posted November 8, 2012 Socialism is not a dirty word. My husband is a proud socialist. One daughter, at least, is socialist and she is proud of it. I am not socialist but have liberal leanings. One son is a far right conservative. I am not sure what emotional laden term to call him. Problem is that we throw the terms around without even knowing what they mean just for the emotional impact, usually negative. Comparing a person, or their beliefs, to Hitler, in anyway is not going to make friends. Calling a person a socialist isnt either since they generally know you are attempting to insult them. To try to throw the blame on the recipient is just ingenuous to say the least. An insult was intended so he ought man up and admit it but no he is going to blame her for 'misunderstanding'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarginOfError Posted November 8, 2012 Report Share Posted November 8, 2012 Socialism is not a dirty word. My husband is a proud socialist. One daughter, at least, is socialist and she is proud of it. I am not socialist but have liberal leanings. One son is a far right conservative. I am not sure what emotional laden term to call him. Problem is that we throw the terms around without even knowing what they mean just for the emotional impact, usually negative. Comparing a person, or their beliefs, to Hitler, in anyway is not going to make friends. Calling a person a socialist isnt either since they generally know you are attempting to insult them. To try to throw the blame on the recipient is just ingenuous to say the least. An insult was intended so he ought man up and admit it but no he is going to blame her for 'misunderstanding'.How so very uncynical of you! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 8, 2012 Report Share Posted November 8, 2012 Just doing a quick search on lds.net:If we really did our homework and approached the Book of Mormon doctrinally, we could expose the errors and find the truths to combat many of the current false theories and philosophies of men, including socialism...-Ezra Taft BensonWould you like to know of the warnings of the prophets about our increasing descent down the soul-destroying road of socialism and what they have told us to do about it?-Ezra Taft BensonAs our modern societies follow the course which led to the fall of Rome and other civilizations which succumbed to the deceptive lure of the welfare state and socialism, I think it not inappropriate for me to emphasize again the Lord’s plan for the temporal salvation of His mortal children.-Marion G Romney Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vort Posted November 8, 2012 Author Report Share Posted November 8, 2012 Just doing a quick search on lds.net:Quoting the prophets? Really?How gauche. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just_A_Guy Posted November 8, 2012 Report Share Posted November 8, 2012 (edited) Just to shake things up again, let's try this:ADAM (original Facebook posting): Well, Romney won, the Republicans retained the House and took the Senate, gay marriage soundly defeated, and guess what? The world didn't end.BOB: Well, Hitler killed six million Jews, terrorists flew airplanes into the WTC, and a family was wiped out in an automobile accident. And guess what? The world didn't end. But the fact that the world didn't end does not mean those things were not bad or hurtful.Should Romney, or his supporters, be offended?I'm also going to go out on a limb and say that our genetic, knee-jerk aversion to socialism has made us conservatives lazy. For three decades or so we didn't have to articulate what was wrong with socialism - the fact that their greatest champion had thousands of nukes pointed at us, kind of made it easy to pooh-pooh the ideology itself.The Republican party needs to re-engage the debate intellectually. People are inevitably going to ask - as Annewandering has - "what's really so wrong about socialism"; and merely sound-byting Benson and reminding them (since Godwin's already out of the bag, at least on this thread) that it has killed more people than Hitler ever dreamed, isn't enough anymore. Edited November 8, 2012 by Just_A_Guy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 8, 2012 Report Share Posted November 8, 2012 Quoting the prophets? Really?How gauche.I guess I'm just not refined enough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vort Posted November 8, 2012 Author Report Share Posted November 8, 2012 I guess I'm just not refined enough.What do you think this is, some kind of Mormon religious site? Next thing you know, people will be talking about prayer and scripture study. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 8, 2012 Report Share Posted November 8, 2012 Well they are old words of prophets, so they probably don't count anymore, right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
annewandering Posted November 8, 2012 Report Share Posted November 8, 2012 Just doing a quick search on lds.net:Yes and When did he say those? He mentions prophets as if he was not one yet. So do we have to believe all his opinions at that time? Why do you suppose we dont take sides on candidates anymore? Sure there is the tax thing but more importantly, in my opinion, it has a lot to do with conservatives throwing Pres. Bensons OPINIONS out there as if they were from God. They arent. They are from Pres. Benson long before he was president of the church. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
annewandering Posted November 8, 2012 Report Share Posted November 8, 2012 Well they are old words of prophets, so they probably don't count anymore, right?Pres. Benson was not a prophet then so no they never did count as Gospel and Elder Romney never was prophet. I dont know when he said what he said. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 8, 2012 Report Share Posted November 8, 2012 That was predictable. Please notice I used a small "p" in "prophet". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
annewandering Posted November 8, 2012 Report Share Posted November 8, 2012 That was predictable. Please notice I used a small "p" in "prophet".Thank you. And I am also right. You may use a small p but conservatives in the church see it as Prophet Benson. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 8, 2012 Report Share Posted November 8, 2012 Yes, anne. You are right, just like always. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
annewandering Posted November 8, 2012 Report Share Posted November 8, 2012 If I didnt think I was right wouldnt it be stupid for me to say it? lol I have always laughed at the idea of people saying things they knew or thought were wrong. Now, Eowyn, you are sitting there right now thinking you are right. And of course you should be! You are not dumb enough to be saying things you dont believe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 8, 2012 Report Share Posted November 8, 2012 "I believe I'm right" and "I am right" are different statements. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
annewandering Posted November 8, 2012 Report Share Posted November 8, 2012 "I believe I'm right" and "I am right" are different statements.Sure they are. One is more confident. :) But they are still open to the judgement of the person hearing or reading it. Anyway while this all does apply to the topic it is still a bit sidelined. Besides I was teasing you a bit even if I do believe what I said. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john doe Posted November 8, 2012 Report Share Posted November 8, 2012 I think the Cathys of the world hear what they want to hear.So you're saying they post on LDS.net? I can see where you could make that argument. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john doe Posted November 8, 2012 Report Share Posted November 8, 2012 I still don't think Bob should get off scot-free for making an intentionally challenging comment.You're right. He should have just defriended her. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john doe Posted November 8, 2012 Report Share Posted November 8, 2012 Anytime a Democrat's name and Hitler are stated in the same sentence, someone is going to cry "foul", regardless of whether the two were compared. It is political correctness gone amok.Yeah. Everyone knows that it's the Republicans who should be compared to Hitler. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rameumptom Posted November 8, 2012 Report Share Posted November 8, 2012 Pres. Benson was not a prophet then so no they never did count as Gospel and Elder Romney never was prophet. I dont know when he said what he said.Actually, ALL of the prophets and apostles are sustained as "prophets, seers, and revelators", so technically you are wrong on both. That their words are not binding upon is may be true, but we are encouraged to prayerfully consider their words, not just reject them because they do not fit our social view. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rameumptom Posted November 8, 2012 Report Share Posted November 8, 2012 Eowyn provided apostolic quotes against socialism. Can anyone provide apostolic quotes encouraging or praising socialism? I can't seem to find any that would support Annwandering's knowledge of being right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
annewandering Posted November 8, 2012 Report Share Posted November 8, 2012 Eowyn provided apostolic quotes against socialism. Can anyone provide apostolic quotes encouraging or praising socialism? I can't seem to find any that would support Annwandering's knowledge of being right.Most Prophets tend to avoid politics with good cause. We dont need any more martyrs do we? There is also the thing about many members of the church live under other governments including socialism. Should we be calling them out as being evil? I do seem to recall and Article of Faith addressing that issue. I also recall that Jesus was not overly interested in governments except for His Fathers kingdom. Perhaps our attention should be directed in similar ways. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bythelake Posted November 8, 2012 Report Share Posted November 8, 2012 (edited) Pres. Benson was not a prophet then so no they never did count as Gospel and Elder Romney never was prophet. I dont know when he said what he said.After President Benson was called to be the prophet, there were two topics he spoke on more than any others. One was the Book of Mormon. One was the Constitution. Around the two hundredth anniversary of the Constitution, he spoke at BYU. (I was there.) The title of his talk was, "The Constitution:A Heavenly Banner." In this talk, he talks about basic constitutional principles. Here is the text:SpeechesOther talks on the Constitution can be found in conference issues of the Ensign during the time he was prophet.Near the end of the talk I linked to, he talks about the prophecy made by Joseph Smith. "We are fast approaching that moment prophesied by Joseph Smith when he said: Even this Nation will be on the very verge of crumbling to pieces and tumbling to the ground and when the constitution is upon the brink of ruin this people will be the Staff up[on] which the Nation shall lean and they shall bear the constitution away from the very verge of destruction."He goes on to ask "Will we be prepared?" and lists the things we need to do to be prepared. Among the things listed he says:" 2. We must learn the principles of theConstitution and then abide by its precepts. Have we read the Constitution and pondered it? Are we aware of its principles? Could we defend it? Can we recognize when a law is constitutionally unsound? The Church will not tell us how to do this, but we are admonished to do it. "From a personal viewpoint it was some years before I got around to following that council.And it's my feeling now that we will have a different perspective if we follow that council than if we do not. Edited November 8, 2012 by bythelake Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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