*** COMFORT for ROMNEY SUPPORTERS

[bytor2112]

I prefer to believe the truth. Shall we try to determine that or just swap barbs?

But a good lie is so hard to beat...obviously.

[annewandering]

But a good lie is so hard to beat...obviously.

Oh? Well I am inclined to believe you.

[LittleWyvern]

Galt's Gulch - Conservapedia

That's it! We'll call this new country "United Galts of America."

[Smeagums]

Secession is blatantly unconstitutional, as well.

LOL @ what you said!

The states always maintained the right to succeed until evil Lincoln made war over it. The war had little to do with slavery. Slavery was easily fixed and stopped by other countries without any violence. Lincoln centralized power because of the Civil war.

In summary, you are incorrect. States can succeed. Of course you can quote some supreme court case. The supreme court was never intended to defile the Constitution like they have been.

[Smeagums]

Remember all the Ezra T. Benson facebook posts during the 2008 cycle about how the Constitution is inspired?

The Constitution wasn't inspired?!

Doctrine and Covenants 101:

80 And for this purpose have I established the Constitution of this land, by the hands of wise men whom I raised up unto this very purpose, and redeemed the land by the shedding of blood.

[LittleWyvern]

LOL @ what you said!

The states always maintained the right to succeed until evil Lincoln made war over it. The war had little to do with slavery. Slavery was easily fixed and stopped by other countries without any violence. Lincoln centralized power because of the Civil war.

In summary, you are incorrect. States can succeed. Of course you can quote some supreme court case. The supreme court was never intended to defile the Constitution like they have been.

Ignoring for the moment your argument that the supreme court is not the final judge on what laws/acts are constitutional and what are not, the argument for secession being against the Constitution goes back to the founding itself (and perhaps even prior to it!) and does not need the Civil War (however a good example it is) to make it work. For instance:

The Union of the States never was a purely artificial and arbitrary relation. It began among the Colonies, and grew out of common origin, mutual sympathies, kindred principles, similar interests, and geographical relations. It was confirmed and strengthened by the necessities of war, and received definite form and character and sanction from the Articles of Confederation. By these, the Union was solemnly declared to 'be perpetual.' And when these Articles were found to be inadequate to the exigencies of the country, the Constitution was ordained 'to form a more perfect Union.' It is difficult to convey the idea of indissoluble unity more clearly than by these words. What can be indissoluble if a perpetual Union, made more perfect, is not?

The Constitution wasn't inspired?!

Of course it was and is. That's exactly what I'm arguing for.

[Smeagums]

The truth is democracy's always fail because they are horrible government systems. Democracy equates to mob rule. 51% FORCE the 49% to do their will.

That's why the Constitution formed a Republic where the rule of law was enforced and minorities weren't obligated to follow suit. To sum up the Constitution, I can do whatever I want on my land and to my own person as long as I don't hurt your person or property. That's a very, very short version of what the Constitution intended.

In a Republic, if everyone wanted Obamacare except for little ole me, I would not be forced to participate in it. That is what the Constitution was about. It wasn't about the government running our lives. Unfortunately most people, including members, have no clue what was intended by the Constitution.

[Smeagums]

Thomas Jefferson : First Inaugural Address

Wednesday, March 4, 1801

...If there be any among us who would wish to dissolve this Union or to change its republican form, let them stand undisturbed as monuments of the safety with which error of opinion may be tolerated where reason is left free to combat it. I know, indeed, that some honest men fear that a republican government can not be strong, that this Government is not strong enough; but would the honest patriot, in the full tide of successful experiment, abandon a government which has so far kept us free and firm on the theoretic and visionary fear that this Government, the world's best hope, may by possibility want energy to preserve itself? I trust not. I believe this, on the contrary, the strongest Government on earth. I believe it the only one where every man, at the call of the law, would fly to the standard of the law, and would meet invasions of the public order as his own personal concern. Sometimes it is said that man can not be trusted with the government of himself. Can he, then, be trusted with the government of others? Or have we found angels in the forms of kings to govern him?

About to enter, fellow-citizens, on the exercise of duties which comprehend everything dear and valuable to you, it is proper you should understand what I deem the essential principles of our Government, and consequently those which ought to shape its Administration. I will compress them within the narrowest compass they will bear, stating the general principle, but not all its limitations.

Equal and exact justice to all men,of whatever state or persuasion, religious or political;

peace, commerce, and honest friendship with all nations, entangling alliances with none;

the support of the State governments in all their rights, as the most competent administrations for our domestic concerns and the surest bulwarks against antirepublican tendencies;

the preservation of the General Government in its whole constitutional vigor, as the sheet anchor of our peace at home and safety abroad;

a jealous care of the right of election by the people—a mild and safe corrective of abuses which are lopped by the sword of revolution where peaceable remedies are unprovided;

absolute acquiescence in the decisions of the majority, the vital principle of republics, from which is no appeal but to force, the vital principle and immediate parent of despotism;

a well disciplined militia, our best reliance in peace and for the first moments of war, till regulars may relieve them;

the supremacy of the civil over the military authority;

economy in the public expense, that labor may be lightly burthened;

the honest payment of our debts and sacred preservation of the public faith;

encouragement of agriculture, and of commerce as its handmaid;

the diffusion of information and arraignment of all abuses at the bar of the public reason;

freedom of religion;

freedom of the press, and freedom of person under the protection of the habeas corpus, and trial by juries impartially selected.

These principles form the bright constellation which has gone before us and guided our steps through an age of revolution and reformation. The wisdom of our sages and blood of our heroes have been devoted to their attainment. They should be the creed of our political faith, the text of civic instruction, the touchstone by which to try the services of those we trust; and should we wander from them in moments of error or of alarm, let us hasten to retrace our steps and to regain the road which alone leads to peace, liberty, and safety.

Again ...If there be any among us who would wish to dissolve this Union or to change its republican form, let them stand undisturbed as monuments of the safety with which error of opinion may be tolerated where reason is left free to combat it.

[Vort]

The True Believers are nutcase Tea Partiers. I guess no one saw the extremely long voting lines in poor and non white areas? No one thought it was odd to have Romneys son buy the voting machine company in Ohio, the major swing state?

Serious question, anne: Does it bother you to be repeating open lies about fellow Saints?

No one paid any attention to the open attempts to suppress voting by the poor?

Probably because there were no such attempts -- unlike the PROVEN voter intimidation in other areas such as Philadelphia, which your President refused to follow up on and prosecute four years ago.

Even the words of the Ohio governor saying that with the voter suppression they ought to be able to give Ohio to Romney?

Again, anne: Does it bother you that you unashamedly repeat lies?

Did you notice who won Ohio?

Obama supporters worked hard to get out the vote. Romney supporters worked hard to suppress the vote.

Have you no shame at all?

[skippy740]

In a Republic, if everyone wanted Obamacare except for little ole me, I would not be forced to participate in it. That is what the Constitution was about. It wasn't about the government running our lives. Unfortunately most people, including members, have no clue what was intended by the Constitution.

With ObamaCare, you don't HAVE to have health coverage... but you get to pay a "tax penalty" for not having it. The first time the USA mandates that everyone buys something, or else.

Not in line with what I would consider "freedom".

[Vort]

Oh? Well I am inclined to believe you.

Based on other posts, you are clearly inclined to believe bald-faced and transparent lies.

[Smeagums]

With ObamaCare, you don't HAVE to have health coverage... but you get to pay a "tax penalty" for not having it. The first time the USA mandates that everyone buys something, or else.

Not in line with what I would consider "freedom".

Yes you are correct but you must understand what I meant. Penalizing me for not buying insurance is just thievery.

[HoosierGuy]

Another post-election thought: "Be careful what you pray for."

Had Romney won, it is highly doubtful that he and his team would have been able to rescue the nation's wounded economy from the purposeful destruction that Obama has intentionally inflicted upon it, Obama having done so in order to "fundamentally transform" our free enterprise system into a Socialist state.

I don't know what is more shocking - people who actually write that stuff or the people who believe that stuff.

[Just_A_Guy]

I don't know what is more shocking - people who actually write that stuff or the people who believe that stuff.

I've seen people accuse an incumbent president of intentionally starting an unjust war in order to steer federal funds to his defense contractor cronies. I've seen that same president accused of deliberately letting hurricane victims suffer because they were a racial minority. I've seen that same president accused of launching a false-flag terror attack on his own country, killing three thousand Americans in the process.

Nothing shocks me anymore, except perhaps when the very same people who made those wild accusations suddenly pull their sanctimonious "have you no decency, sir? At least respect the office" schtick now that one of their own is in the White House.

[Guest]

I don't know what is more shocking - people who actually write that stuff or the people who believe that stuff.

If it waddles like a duck, floats like a duck, flies like a duck, quacks like a duck... it's a duck.

[MarginOfError]

If it waddles like a duck, floats like a duck, flies like a duck, quacks like a duck... it's a duck.

That was so disappointing. I was just waiting for you to declare it a chimp.

[Just_A_Guy]

Buncha racists . . .

[volgadon]

If it waddles like a duck, floats like a duck, flies like a duck, quacks like a duck... it's a duck.

Most people, though, don't really know how a duck waddles, floats, flies, or quacks...

[volgadon]

Of course secession is unconstitutional. You don't secede by suing somebody. Yo secede by a successful revolt.

In today's climate, it might not be as bloody as the Civil War. There's a universal distaste for death even in war. And with Russia splintering, it's not too far-fetched to imagine America going that route. I don think it's going to happen, but you never know...

Russia splintering? Haven't heard that.