Election demographics. Can we learn anything?

[talisyn]

And how's that going for them?

It's a work in progress. we need single-payer and financing reform and we should be good ^^

personally, I think Sandy tipped the scales for Obama. And the Reps didn't do themselves any favor by voting down every single jobs bill for 3 years.

I hope both parties take a good, hard look at this incredibly close election and try to admit they have common ground. Like the American people do lol.

[idahommie]

I hope the country fails under Obama's lack of leadership and knowledge of economics. Maybe we can default like Brazil and Argentina........here's praying that there is NO compromise that leads to more deficit spending with no cuts to the entitlement programs.

I also will no longer vote in anything other than state and local elections, and will NEVER vote for anyone professing to be a Libertarian. I officially join the ranks of the disenfranchised. I support secession. EVERYONE get your free stuff while it lasts, sign up for every government handout you can get. Lie, cheat and steal to get it. Keep having six kids you can't afford to feed, cloth or educate. Ensure that your union guarantees it takes 3 guys to do one mans job at pay that would support 10 families. Maybe we can make something out of the countries that form after this union falls.

Top it all off and act righteous while you partake of the sacrement.

[HoosierGuy]

Okay, let me give you a bit of facts. You know that steel worker who lost his job and his wife died because "Romney doesn't care"? He lost his job because Unions stonewalled the restructuring of the steel plant and Bain had no choice but to close the plant down. If they would have agreed to restructure their Union contracts, the plant would have remained open, the company would have become competitive, the workers wouldn't just keep their jobs, they can continue to expand and get more workers as steel was still in demand and eventually, the Unions would have gained money. But no... the Unions were idiots but they can blame Romney for it who was not even in Bain because Hoosier would just believe it hook, line, and sinker.

I respect your right to your opinion even though I disagree.

[annewandering]

And how's that going for them?

Well we are 37th in health care in the world and they arent. Sounds like theirs are doing better than ours are.

[annewandering]

I hope the country fails under Obama's lack of leadership and knowledge of economics. Maybe we can default like Brazil and Argentina........here's praying that there is NO compromise that leads to more deficit spending with no cuts to the entitlement programs.

I also will no longer vote in anything other than state and local elections, and will NEVER vote for anyone professing to be a Libertarian. I officially join the ranks of the disenfranchised. I support secession. EVERYONE get your free stuff while it lasts, sign up for every government handout you can get. Lie, cheat and steal to get it. Keep having six kids you can't afford to feed, cloth or educate. Ensure that your union guarantees it takes 3 guys to do one mans job at pay that would support 10 families. Maybe we can make something out of the countries that form after this union falls.

Top it all off and act righteous while you partake of the sacrement.

Congrats for being a huge part of messing up our economy. You do realize this is a democracy? We vote in a president by majority vote. Sometimes our candidate wins and sometimes they lose. What we dont do is whine like two year olds when we lose. We get ourselves up and work to make this country great not try to carve out a new country and whine.

This kind of childishness is what is trying to destroy this great land of ours. Grow up.

Oh and I gratefully take the sacrament, which by the way is offered by Christ not the conservatives. Thanks for your concern.

Edited November 15, 2012 by annewandering

[Guest]

I respect your right to your opinion even though I disagree.

It's not an opinion. It is fact. Go look it up.

[Just_A_Guy]

Well we are 37th in health care in the world and they arent. Sounds like theirs are doing better than ours are.

By what indicia? A recent thread here pointed to international quality-of-life studies that ranked US healthcare #2.

[annewandering]

By what indicia? A recent thread here pointed to international quality-of-life studies that ranked US healthcare #2.

I would love to see that, Just_A_Guy. I hope its true. Nothing I have ever read indicates that we are even close to 2 except that we have the capability of being number 1. It is the lack of availability to all groups that makes us so low in ranking.

The UN, I believe is the original source. I will have to check. Admittedly I have collected misc. info over time so not sure it includes all that I have stated.

[Just_A_Guy]

Here you go. My point isn't necessarily that we really are #2 - the result mildly surprised me, in fact - but I do think you have to be careful about simplistically ranking something as complex and multi-faceted as health care. Edited November 15, 2012 by Just_A_Guy

[volgadon]

Tell me what you see as silliness in this statement.

That voting for the Democrats equals sin.

For the record, I didn't vote at all in the election.

[jerome1232]

You do realize this is a democracy? We vote in a president by majority vote.

Huh, interesting. If this is a democracy, and we vote a president by majority vote, then how did Bush, who lost majority vote, get reelected again?

You know what, I believe we've been over this before, in another thread.

[Guest]

Well we are 37th in health care in the world and they arent. Sounds like theirs are doing better than ours are.

Anne, did you look at the methodology in determining the healthcare ranking?

Here... I'll cut-and-paste it:

Health (50%) : disability-adjusted life expectancy

Responsiveness (25%) : speed of service, protection of privacy, and quality of amenities

Fair financial contribution : 25%

Okay... 50% of the ranking is life expectancy. That does not necessarily have anything to do with healthcare.

For example - let's use France (#1 on the list) to juxtapose - Look at your average frenchman and look at your average American - healthy living leans towards the frenchman.

The French culture gravitates towards French cuisine. French cuisine is very particular with the melding of ingredients, not only to attract taste, smell, and visual cues, but also to provide proper balanced nutrition. Sitting down for a proper meal, making mealtimes important parts of the day, is part of the culture. Americans are known for high-caloric, nutritionally deficient convenience foods - the grab-it-and-go lifestyle. Just going to Epcot in Orlando, you'll experience the difference in French cooking. The plates are always pleasing to the eye, smell great, and taste amazing. And the plate is ginormous, the contents, very very small. My husband says - the french restaurant is too expensive, I always say, it's the same price as everywhere else - and my husband says, but they only give you 1/4 of the food you get from the Chinese place... The French gorge on the visual, taste, and smell experience of eating. They don't eat and eat and eat until their stomachs bloat out.

The French is also a pedestrian society - they walk more and expend more energy in everyday living. Americans exercise in the gym (if they're into physical fitness) and ride everywhere. The French live a relaxed lifestyle, Americans are rushing everywhere all stressed out.

Now, the French have laws on nutrition - kinda like Bloomberg's 16 ounce law.

And that's not counting all the other American deaths caused by anything other than health reasons - military, crime, etc.

Now, how do you think Americans will rank against the French in life expentancy - putting the same healthcare resources in the same environment.

Of course, if you feel that the government should be able to force people to eat French cuisine to keep healthcare costs from bankrupting the nation like it is doing in France, then yeah, having the French Healthcare System might work out for America too.

Edited November 15, 2012 by anatess

[annewandering]

World Health Organization ranking of health systems - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia I tried to find a relatively unbiased link for healthcare ranking studies but this is the best I could find. Not surprisingly most sites are very biased.

From what I see on this link it is as I suspected. We have good health care ability. The problem is too many people are unable to get it.

I am not going to nitpik on democracy forms. Yes I know what kind we have.

[Guest]

World Health Organization ranking of health systems - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia I tried to find a relatively unbiased link for healthcare ranking studies but this is the best I could find. Not surprisingly most sites are very biased.

From what I see on this link it is as I suspected. We have good health care ability. The problem is too many people are unable to get it.

I am not going to nitpik on democracy forms. Yes I know what kind we have.

Anne, choose another ranking. That one is scientifically deficient. Look at my post above.

We have good health care ability. The problem is too many people refuse to live healthy. They'd rather get the government or the insurance to pay for their meds than for them to spend more on proper nutrition.

Edited November 15, 2012 by anatess

[carlimac]

That voting for the Democrats equals sin.

For the record, I didn't vote at all in the election.

And for the record I didn't say voting for Democrats equals sin. Egg on your face?

[annewandering]

Here you go. My point isn't necessarily that we really are #2 - the result mildly surprised me, in fact - but I do think you have to be careful about simplistically ranking something as complex and multi-faceted as health care.

I am afraid link doesnt really pass the free from bias 'test'. Legatum - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I am not saying they are not right. Its just that their history just is too much of a red flag.

[Guest]

I hope the country fails under Obama's lack of leadership and knowledge of economics. Maybe we can default like Brazil and Argentina........here's praying that there is NO compromise that leads to more deficit spending with no cuts to the entitlement programs.

I also will no longer vote in anything other than state and local elections, and will NEVER vote for anyone professing to be a Libertarian. I officially join the ranks of the disenfranchised. I support secession. EVERYONE get your free stuff while it lasts, sign up for every government handout you can get. Lie, cheat and steal to get it. Keep having six kids you can't afford to feed, cloth or educate. Ensure that your union guarantees it takes 3 guys to do one mans job at pay that would support 10 families. Maybe we can make something out of the countries that form after this union falls.

Top it all off and act righteous while you partake of the sacrement.

For the record... comments like these, just like the rape comments of a certain candidate, are not the norm for the conservatives.

I would be very interested in a debate thread between Ida and Hosier. I'll even buy tickets for it.

[Guest]

I am afraid link doesnt really pass the free from bias 'test'. Legatum - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I am not saying they are not right. Its just that their history just is too much of a red flag.

I think that was the point that JAG was making... you can't throw a simplistic ranking like that or the WHO one on a complicated topic like health care.

So making a #37 comment is just as bad as making a #2 comment.

[annewandering]

Anne, choose another ranking. That one is scientifically deficient. Look at my post above.

We have good health care ability. The problem is too many people refuse to live healthy. They'd rather get the government or the insurance to pay for their meds than for them to spend more on proper nutrition.

You will note that I have said, several times. that we have the potential, in my opinion, to be number one. The problem lies with the availability of that high class health care. Oh and please. Lets not get started on the refusing to live healthy. That is a whole 'nother thread not to mention being insulting to those in poor health.

[annewandering]

For the record... comments like these, just like the rape comments of a certain candidate, are not the norm for the conservatives.

I would be very interested in a debate thread between Ida and Hosier. I'll even buy tickets for it.

I absolutely do not think a debate between the maturity handicapped and an adult is something to be amused by.

[volgadon]

And for the record I didn't say voting for Democrats equals sin. Egg on your face?

Not unless you can provide a cogent explanation for this. "As LDS we have the responsibility to dig deeper into these questions and not just brush them off with "Jesus loves everyone." Yes he does but we know that answer doesn't justify sin. "

[Guest]

You will note that I have said, several times. that we have the potential, in my opinion, to be number one. The problem lies with the availability of that high class health care. Oh and please. Lets not get started on the refusing to live healthy. That is a whole 'nother thread not to mention being insulting to those in poor health.

Insulting to those in poor health? It is FACT. You don't even need to make scientific studies on it. Just walk down your grocery store. The cheapest things are the most unhealthy things. The nutritional ones are those in "special aisles" with high price tags. Why do you think that is?

I mean, even dog food is amazingly ______ (can't find the word I need - idiotic?). The healthy food costs 3 times as much as the crap food. People don't have a problem with feeding their dogs Dog Chow.

Edited November 15, 2012 by anatess

[volgadon]

Insulting to those in poor health? It is FACT. You don't even need to make scientific studies on it. Just walk down your grocery store. The cheapest things are the most unhealthy things. The nutritional ones are those in "special aisles" with high price tags. Why do you think that is?

I mean, even dog food is amazingly ______ (can't find the word I need - idiotic?). The healthy food costs 3 times as much as the crap food. People don't have a problem with feeding their dogs Dog Chow.

I actually agree with you on this point, that the healthy food is more expensive, but I disagree with you on the cassus.

[Guest]

I actually agree with you on this point, that the healthy food is more expensive, but I disagree with you on the cassus.

That would be interesting... because, I didn't provide a cause.

[volgadon]

That would be interesting... because, I didn't provide a cause.

Really?

"The problem is too many people refuse to live healthy. They'd rather get the government or the insurance to pay for their meds than for them to spend more on proper nutrition."