Voting our conscience

[Bini]

I'm LDS and a Democrat. I don't feel that my vote goes against my conscience or my religious beliefs. That said, I see how others do think so. When I vote Democrat, I don't do it out of fear of retribution or of offending someone; I do it because I don't feel that it is appropriate for me (or anyone) to try to impose my religious beliefs on the majority.

Well said. I prefer to keep things from being too wordy.

When I get caught up in a debate web (my parents are Republican and my sister is a Libertarian) and my Democratic views are challenged, I have the same answer. Certainly there are things I personally disagree with, however, I believe people should have agency to choose how to live their lives. I couldn't agree more with your last statement in bold.

[Vort]

Perfect examples. I am against abortion, but I deliberately vote pro-choice.

I assume you also vote pro-slavery, pro-exterminate-old-people, pro-forcible-rape, and pro-leave-babies-to-starve-in-the-woods. I know that you personally disapprove of these and would never do such things, but we cannot take away people's sacred rights to exercise their free agency. That would be far worse than Hitler.

[Backroads]

I guess I have no problem with "trying to impose my religious beliefs on the majority". I figure it's my right to do so--after all, everyone else uses their voting power to impose their beliefs on the majority anyway (i.e., people who believe in rights to abortion aim for it politically). Why should I be any different?

Though I admit I do try to think of my religious beliefs on a grander scale, how they will affect lives if made law.

[Wingnut]

I assume you also vote pro-slavery, pro-exterminate-old-people, pro-forcible-rape, and pro-leave-babies-to-starve-in-the-woods. I know that you personally disapprove of these and would never do such things, but we cannot take away people's sacred rights to exercise their free agency. That would be far worse than Hitler.

Assume all you want.

[Bini]

I guess I have no problem with "trying to impose my religious beliefs on the majority".

I just don't believe that making it law is the Lord's Will. I believe agency is the Lord's Will, which he has given all of us and none of us are perfect.

[Backroads]

I just don't believe that making it law is the Lord's Will. I believe agency is the Lord's Will, which he has given all of us and none of us are perfect.

I agree.

But (and please correct me if I'm wrong) it seemed as if you were largely voting a certain way JUST to avoid the appearance of forcing your beliefs. I honestly have no problem with any individual who votes differently than me if he seriously believes that way or, if not necessarily believe that way, think it would be best for society as a whole, but that's just it--I think you should vote the way you believe.

I may agree with you that the Lord's Way may not mean to make all our beliefs law, but I think we have the right to vote how we want.

[Bini]

I agree.

But (and please correct me if I'm wrong) it seemed as if you were largely voting a certain way JUST to avoid the appearance of forcing your beliefs.

Incorrect. I voted the way I did because I feel passionate about the social issues that were and are at hand.

[Vort]

Assume all you want.

You provide no compelling argument to distinguish between allowing forcible rape and allowing murder of unborn children.

[bytor2112]

Incorrect. I voted the way I did because I feel passionate about the social issues that were and are at hand.

Which ones?

[Bini]

Which ones?

I'm going to gracefully decline getting into the nitty gritty of why I voted the way I did. My husband and I are confident with our votes. We realise there are those that think we're crazy, and that's fine.

[Backroads]

I'm going to gracefully decline getting into the nitty gritty of why I voted the way I did. My husband and I are confident with our votes. We realise there are those that think we're crazy, and that's fine.

I'm pretty sure the mods would have to make another thread for each social issue so we can debate those... too messy.

[Backroads]

Incorrect. I voted the way I did because I feel passionate about the social issues that were and are at hand.

Which is how voting should be. Based on one's beliefs and feelings.

But still, one could say that by voting as you did, you were seeking to force your beliefs on society.

Which is why I have no problem with the concept.

[bytor2112]

I'm going to gracefully decline getting into the nitty gritty of why I voted the way I did. My husband and I are confident with our votes. We realise there are those that think we're crazy, and that's fine.

OK...but you have proclaimed your vote was over social issues you feel passionate about. I don't know of ANY social issues that were on the ballot. I can only guess that you refer to g/l marriage and abortion. (ok except perhaps defunding Abortion Inc aka Planned Parenthood).

Edited November 14, 2012 by bytor2112

[Backroads]

OK...but you have proclaimed your vote was over social issues you feel passionate about. I don't know of ANY social issues that were on the ballot. I can only guess that you refer to g/l marriage and abortion. (ok except perhaps defunding Abortion Inc aka Planned Parenthood).

Local ballots?

I also assumed she voted for candidates she thought would best champion social issues important to her that may not have been as banner-worthy as ss marriage and abortion.

[EarlJibbs]

I dont think you can force beliefs by a vote. I also think that our beliefs should drive our vote.

Do we think that we are forcing someone to not murder by having a law against it? If Christ were here would he take away all laws because we should only have guidlines and then make choices for ourselves? They would be law.

Personally I dont think that claiming 100% to belong to one party is correct. There is not a set of beleifs by any party that are 100% in line with the teachings of Christ, so why would I subscribe to stand by those beliefs. I hate that essentially we are a 2 party system.

Vote according to what you know to be right.

[bytor2112]

I didn't vote my conscience, I voted for a better economy.Mitt is not my ideal guy...but I believe he is a very good man (not to suggest that Barack Obama is a bad man). I don't like social issues in politics...I like small effective government...or I would if it existed.

As for social issues, I wonder how many Saints would have followed the Prophet if he said that a vote for SS marriage is a sin or a vote for funding abortion is a sin? While many say that would give up everything and move to Zion if called on to do so, many others had conniption fits when the church opposed Prop. 8.

[prisonchaplain]

Care for the poor and the environment could be considered social issues. Immigration is very much a social issue for the families involved. Some might argue that the War on Drugs and mandatory minimum sentencing are social issues. Our country's high incarceration rate, and the disproportionate % of prisoners who are minorities might be deemed a social issue.

I'm not saying I agree with any of those...just pointing out that social issues can include so much more than abortion and gay marriage.

[bytor2112]

Care for the poor and the environment could be considered social issues. Immigration is very much a social issue for the families involved. Some might argue that the War on Drugs and mandatory minimum sentencing are social issues. Our country's high incarceration rate, and the disproportionate % of prisoners who are minorities might be deemed a social issue.

I'm not saying I agree with any of those...just pointing out that social issues can include so much more than abortion and gay marriage.

I see all of those as an issue for the States to deal with, for the exception of illegal immigration. Unfortunately, States have to deal with because the Fed kicks the can down the road.

[prisonchaplain]

There are voices saying the GOP should abandon its social issues stances. Traditional marriage and restrictions on abortion are non-starters amongst the young, and they are our only hope...so say some pundits.

Innocent life must be protected. Marriage was instituted by God to be between one man and one woman. To say these things is not to impose religion. If politics cannot uphold these basic truths, then I'm not sure how much I care whether the politician is a Republicrat, a Democan...a moderate...if you cannot protect life or our most basic social institution, then I'm not sure it is worth the effort I would have to expend to hold my nose and vote for you.

[bytor2112]

There are voices saying the GOP should abandon its social issues stances. Traditional marriage and restrictions on abortion are non-starters amongst the young, and they are our only hope...so say some pundits.

Innocent life must be protected. Marriage was instituted by God to be between one man and one woman. To say these things is not to impose religion. If politics cannot uphold these basic truths, then I'm not sure how much I care whether the politician is a Republicrat, a Democan...a moderate...if you cannot protect life or our most basic social institution, then I'm not sure it is worth the effort I would have to expend to hold my nose and vote for you.

Abortion has become the Holy Grail for the Democratic Party and SS marriage will one day be the law of the land.. I am opposed to abortion except for rare situations. Ironically, Nixon, Ford, Reagan, two Bush's and a Republican controlled House and Senate did not seek to over turn Roe V Wade.

America will resemble Europe economically and socially....devoid of sacred beliefs except shrines to archaic beliefs. The State instead will become the center of influence and source of hope...already is for many.

I suspect many Americans already view the Republicans as just another wing of the same rotten bird and stay home and let America go the way of the world.

[talisyn]

You provide no compelling argument to distinguish between allowing forcible rape and allowing murder of unborn children.

Doesn't a woman's body have ways of shutting that down?

I think there is a deeper problem with the person in the OP's op. A secret ballot is practically sacred in this country. If someone is scared to vote their conscious in a secret vote, then they need to figure out what if any voting rights laws are being violated and report that to the proper agency.

[bytor2112]

Doesn't a woman's body have ways of shutting that down?

I think there is a deeper problem with the person in the OP's op. A secret ballot is practically sacred in this country. If someone is scared to vote their conscious in a secret vote, then they need to figure out what if any voting rights laws are being violated and report that to the proper agency.

Yep. Like menacing thugs called Black Panthers hanging out or voting in Precincts with Obama murals painted on the walls....unless of course he's your choice.

[talisyn]

yes, the new black panthers, spreading out throughout the country like a..umm..bunch of new black panthers, suppressing the vote of the white people....that sure turned the tide of the election.

[bytor2112]

yes, the new black panthers, spreading out throughout the country like a..umm..bunch of new black panthers, suppressing the vote of the white people....that sure turned the tide of the election.

Haha...but the point is there isn't voter suppression. Except maybe in Philadelphia I think the OP is right. People are wimpy and give in on issues because of pressure to be politically correct. I loathe the Democratic Party, I find it to be a vile and despicable machine. But, man, their voters are shrill when it comes to their beliefs regardless of how unworthy those beliefs may be. ( yes, I know, Tal..you likely feel the same way about the other side :))

I am glad I am not in bed with the Republicans. My cause always loses....the idea of less intrusive government and freedom has become anathema and will likely never be envogue. So be it....I am a libertarian at heart. ( not the Party)

[talisyn]

Here is a good example of who you want to vote for vs. reality, in cake form

Cake Wrecks - Home - Marital Miss