Are Our Inflictions Mental And Phsyical Chosen By Us In The Premortal

[Chanteemomof6]

I have had many inflications that have ailed me much. Some aliments wishing to take me life. i have prondered greatly on this subject and my prayers have made me feel deeply that we made a choice in the promotal about which adversity we were going to have to face in this mortal plane. I look at mine differently now.Instead of asking why do I have this. i feel as long as I can endure this inflicition and not murmer against it then it will earn me the right to celestrail glory and beable to be with the father again. Each pain is one more pain closer to me getting to be back with my heavenly father. Some people choose a path thats the fast track to the end. Their lives are all inflictions one after another and they die a young life. then there are others who go on the longer path. they live a full live and have affictions too, but not to the extreme as the other path, but they get to live longer lives. both go to the same place, no way is better than the other. Its just what we choose.

What do you all think of this?

[StrawberryFields]

Are they chosen....not so sure about that.

I do believe that they are given to us as trials to make us stronger though.

[Nate]

Are they chosen....not so sure about that.

Why?

[john doe]

Correct me if I'm speaking out of turn, here, SF.

I don't know that any of us would choose in the preexistence to go through the experiences that she and her family have gone through as a result of her son's accident a couple years ago.

I think that we knew some of us would have tough trials thrown in our path, but I don't think that we knew beforehand just how hard it would be.

[StrawberryFields]

Correct me if I'm speaking out of turn, here, SF.

I don't know that any of us would choose in the preexistence to go through the experiences that she and her family have gone through as a result of her son's accident a couple years ago.

I think that we knew some of us would have tough trials thrown in our path, but I don't think that we knew beforehand just how hard it would be.

Yes, that is correct JD.

[Guest Monica]

Bad things happen, because life happens. We all have free will.

[Gwen]

bad things do happen, we chose not to follow heavenly father we bring some of them upon ourselves. he can help us out when we are ready to turn to him, but he did not bring it upon us. those are the trials of this life, however i do beleive there are things we chose or at least agreed to, before we got here. some of our afflictions we did know about, may not have fully understood, (how can one understand a physical body not having had one?), but we did agree to it. haveing all trust in our father why wouldn't we.

examples

my son had to have some imunizations to start school, i told him he needed them, that it would hurt, that i'd be there to help him through it. he couldn't remember the last ones so he didn't know what it would feel like. i prepared him and things went fine. he trusted me, compleate faith. he still talks about how it hurt, and about how he was a big boy and what a good job he did, he sees it as an accomplishment. i also see it as such and praise him for the job well done.

my mom has sever learning disabilities, she dropped out of school at a very young age. went through many hard times, having many tell her how stupid she was, that she would never make it, on and on. not till after all her childern were in school did she decide to do something about that. she went back to school, got her GED. durring that time her disabilities were diagnosed. she went on to community college, and then to university. graduated with honors from all. she started a tutoring business to help kids with learning disabilities, so they could learn what it took a life time for her to learn, that she wasn't stupid. she was given a blessing arround that time, she was told she had learned what she was to learn from her disabilities and if she would but ask in faith they would be removed from her. she has never made that request. she now has turned her tutoring business into a private school, and she struggles every day to learn more and stay ahead of the game, but she will not relenquish what got her there, she will not say that prayer and be healed. i understand her compleatly, i know many who do not and would critisize such an action.

my parents told me of an experiance they had just after my little brother was born. my mom had cancer, everyone wanted her to abort the baby and take the treatments imeadiatly. after a very hard pregnancy and delivery, my brother was healthier than any of the dr's expected. he does have his problems, but nothing compared to what he should have. shortly after his birth my parents had an experiance, i honestly don't have all the details of it, but it came down to they knew without a doubt my brother and i discussed and decided who would come first, him or me. the facts were laid out, mom would have the cancer, about each of our births, all of it. we, my brother and i, decided that he would be stronger and could handle it better, that i would most likely not have survived the birth. he took that for me, his learning disabilities are greater, and many other reprocussions from that circumstance. he chose to have that, he loved me that much. he took a harder life so that i could have one.

some things we create for ourselves and can simply do nothing save, repent and ask god to save us from ourselves. other things we knew, we discussed, and in some cases we chose on our own. we had trust in our father, if he said this will be what is best for you, i will help you, all will be well, your reward when you return home will be all you can imagine and more, why wouldn't we listen. that is what becoming as a child is about, trust in our parents. the hard question for me is; did i bring this upon myself, or is this something i must endure as part of this life? being honest with that one can be hard, accepting accountability for my own stupidity, not trying to scape goat it by saying that god cast this upon me.

that's my two cents anyway.

[Nate]

bad things do happen, we chose not to follow heavenly father we bring some of them upon ourselves. he can help us out when we are ready to turn to him, but he did not bring it upon us. those are the trials of this life, however i do beleive there are things we chose or at least agreed to, before we got here. some of our afflictions we did know about, may not have fully understood, (how can one understand a physical body not having had one?), but we did agree to it. haveing all trust in our father why wouldn't we.

Hit the nail on the head.

[Dr T]

I like what I'm reading. Bad things do happen to good people too. When following "God's will" bad things can still happen. It not because we are following or not following that makes us immune from all bad things. Sin is in the world.

[Chanteemomof6]

Sometimes we ask ourselves why did that child get killed by that bad person. Or why did the innocent women have to get raped.

i believe that Heavenly father has to allow bad things to happen to good, innocent people so that those bad people can be judged for their actions. Freewill, yes we have it. So even if we are faithful bad things could still happen to us. People still have to be judge by their freewill to do harm even to the righteous. Now we might ask ourselves why does bad things happen to good people when when no one is causing it, for example cancer. i am a faithful person and active in the church, but yet I got cancer. Why we ask ourselves? Well I feel that those people loved god so much that they wanted to return to him faster than the rest of us. God probable told us that it would be a hard road with many afflictions, but if you can endure and preserver without losing faith and not murmuring against him you can come into his arms faster. So we have two sets of people in this scenario being tried, the one afflicted and those that are around the afflicted watching them go through this. Can the love ones also endure without losing their faith and not murmur against heavenly father during their emotional and possible pain while the one that they love so much suffers and possible even dies. God is a loving father. It might seem otherwise to some people when these things happen, but if can can just endure them they earn us our right for celestrial glory so that we may reside with him again. that is a reward that is worth all afflictions that we might have to endure.

[shanstress70]

I'm not so sure I believe in a premortal existence, Chantee, so I can't offer my opinion on this subject. However, I would like to say that I'm sorry you're going through these things. I wish the best for you and your family and I will keep you guys in my prayers.

[Chanteemomof6]

I'm not so sure I believe in a premortal existence, Chantee, so I can't offer my opinion on this subject.

Joseph Smith History

11 While I was laboring under the extreme difficulties caused by the contests of these parties of religionists, I was one day reading the Epistle of James, first chapter and fifth verse, which reads: If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him.

As a member of the church follow the example of a 14 year boy. Ask for yourself, with an sincere heart.

[CrimsonKairos]

Seems the thread is turning more towards the area of "theodicy." I won't bore anyone by actually posting the whole document, but I've attached something I wrote awhile ago about my thoughts on suffering. It may or may not be useful as regards this thread.

I believe that it's possible that some of us elected to go through certain trials here. I believe that trials and suffering are valuable (though unpleasant) tools the Lord uses in shaping us into the kind of people we have it in us to become.

Certainly some suffering is necessary and profitable, even though it hurts like heck to endure.

I've come to believe that my dad's collision was not just an accident. Before his collision, my dad left home at 5:30am on Sunday mornings to go to stake meetings 30 min. away. The morning of his collision, he left at 5:15am which at the time seemed strange to my mom. This change in fifteen minutes put him in the path of a driver having a siezure. I've pondered these and other factors for the past fourteen months, and believe that God had things to teach me and my family through this personal Gethsemane.

I've learned many lessons by having to help my mom care for my dad as he recovers from his traumatic brain injury. There are many factors which hint at a divinely designed spiritual gauntlet. I've grown in several ways that only God knew I needed help with, I've gained strength in areas where before I was unprepared. I guess I'll have to wait until the next life to ask God for sure.

All in all, I do believe some of us elected or "volunteered" to undergo certain experiences in this life. As premortal spirits, did we adequately understand what these experiences would feel like? Probably not.

[shanstress70]

<div class='quotemain'>

I'm not so sure I believe in a premortal existence, Chantee, so I can't offer my opinion on this subject.

Joseph Smith History

11 While I was laboring under the extreme difficulties caused by the contests of these parties of religionists, I was one day reading the Epistle of James, first chapter and fifth verse, which reads: If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him.

As a member of the church follow the example of a 14 year boy. Ask for yourself, with an sincere heart.

Sorry, you aren't aware of my religious status... I was LDS at one time but no longer believe in your religion. I totally respect those who do though, which is why I'm here.

[Chanteemomof6]

thats how i feel exactly. I so happy for you that you can still see god's wisdom in all things. that all happen for a reason.

God uses are weakness so that we can turn then into our strengths.

[Guest Monica]

bad things do happen, we chose not to follow heavenly father we bring some of them upon ourselves. he can help us out when we are ready to turn to him, but he did not bring it upon us. those are the trials of this life, however i do beleive there are things we chose or at least agreed to, before we got here. some of our afflictions we did know about, may not have fully understood, (how can one understand a physical body not having had one?), but we did agree to it. haveing all trust in our father why wouldn't we.

Hit the nail on the head.

This doesn't match what Jesus said. Bad things happen, but it always isnt a consequence of things we have done or chosen.

Luk 13:1 ¶ There were present at that season some that told him of the Galilaeans, whose blood Pilate had mingled with their sacrifices. 2 And Jesus answering said unto them, Suppose ye that these Galilaeans were sinners above all the Galilaeans, because they suffered such things? 3 I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish. 4 Or those eighteen, upon whom the tower in Siloam fell, and slew them, think ye that they were sinners above all men that dwelt in Jerusalem? 5 I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.

[CrimsonKairos]

I don't think anyone's point was that we all chose or agreed to every act of suffering we'd be exposed to in this life. Many of us believe that significant lessons and chances for personal growth arise from the soil of suffering, and that perhaps we agreed to walk over that soil before we were admitted to the garden (as it were).

[Gwen]

i believe there are three kinds of events in life. all are subject to be changed by our agency, willingness or unwillingness to follow the father. they fall into things we knew and chose in the prexistance (forordained), things we do to ourselves (agency), and then stuff happens this is an imperfect world.

the first things we knew and accepted would be things like our family, birth order, spouse. these things can be changed by our actions. i beleive my husband and i chose eachother before we came here and asked our father for his blessing. he said yes, if you follow me i will bring you together. of course agency here could have changed that, does it mean that if one chose to not follow that the other would spend life alone, no. or if we chose not to have kids that our kids wouldn't get a home, no. we are not important enough to change the plan of salvation, the father can handle our stupid mistakes. i see all great events that way, joseph smith was given and accepted his assignment before he came. he could have said no. he could have said, hey i just wanted to know which church, not start one, find another man. and the church would have still come forth, he did not have the power to thwart the plan of god. and neither do we.

the second things we do, that is just choice. we head into the world and make decisions, we may ask the father for his blessing on things and he may give it but it was still our choice to do it. what degree to obtain, career, activities and friends you choose, how you drive your car, what you wear. some of these things will go well for us, others will not, we made the choice we are accountable for it. can't blame or give credit to anyone but ourselves. however if things go bad we can ask the father for help to fix it, that is repentance, but that does not mean the consequenses will be removed compleatly.

the first two may not be the same for everyone, what was forordained for me may not be for you, what is choice for me may not be for you. that was between you and the father.

and the third, things just happen. sometimes we stub our toe, wasn't a choice we made, wasn't forordained, just happens. someone else makes a bad choice and sends their car into ours. tornados and storms come out of no where. that is the nature of this life, no one, good or bad can be exempt from it. however, even in these things i believe that the father is still in control. if we are righteous and listening he can help us avoid some of these things. others he can use to make us stronger, to teach us, to make good come of bad. again for that to happen we must be listening and following our father. i also believe that god never helps one child at the expense of another, all parties involved can gain and grow from all situations.

i very much see my heavenly father as my children see their daddy. he can fix anything, he knows all, if daddy says it will be ok then it will be, he is superman, a mountain of strength, safety, security, has all answers. i look forward to the day when i can walk through the door of my heavenly home as my children do when they come home, looking exctedly for daddy, running through the room, "daddy, daddy, guess what i did today" as we embrace in a hug of true familial reunion and joy. and yes i believe i will be looking for mommy too.

all my opinion

[StrawberryFields]

Certainly some suffering is necessary and profitable, even though it hurts like heck to endure.

I've come to believe that my dad's collision was not just an accident. Before his collision, my dad left home at 5:30am on Sunday mornings to go to stake meetings 30 min. away. The morning of his collision, he left at 5:15am which at the time seemed strange to my mom. This change in fifteen minutes put him in the path of a driver having a siezure. I've pondered these and other factors for the past fourteen months, and believe that God had things to teach me and my family through this personal Gethsemane.

I've learned many lessons by having to help my mom care for my dad as he recovers from his traumatic brain injury. There are many factors which hint at a divinely designed spiritual gauntlet. I've grown in several ways that only God knew I needed help with, I've gained strength in areas where before I was unprepared. I guess I'll have to wait until the next life to ask God for sure.

All in all, I do believe some of us elected or "volunteered" to undergo certain experiences in this life. As premortal spirits, did we adequately understand what these experiences would feel like? Probably not.

Hello CK,

Would you feel comfortable to expand upon this a bit more?

As many know my son was left with a TBI following an accident 2.5 years ago. My son was always gentle and kind; he still has that along with a spirit of imeasurable proportion. Having survived this accident has made us all much stronger believing that he is here for a definite reason. He has recently turned 20 and we struggle with many things that brain injury causes with the added and daunting task of deciding where we go from here.

How does one get from where I am to where you are?

[CrimsonKairos]

I'm sending you a PM 'berry.

[Guest Monica]

I don't think anyone's point was that we all chose or agreed to every act of suffering we'd be exposed to in this life. Many of us believe that significant lessons and chances for personal growth arise from the soil of suffering, and that perhaps we agreed to walk over that soil before we were admitted to the garden (as it were).

The problem with this way of thinking and premise is that it doesn't have any scriptural premise or documentation. Scriptures clearly show that we have free will in this life. Otherwise we wouldn't be told by Jesus to pray this way:

Mat 6:13 And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil: For thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, for ever. Amen.

Being made of flesh is nothing to boast about. The scriptures show that the flesh is not good at all and that God has realized this.

Gen 6:6 And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart. Gen 6:7 And the LORD said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repenteth me that I have made them.

In fact God has pity on us, because of the very fact that the flesh is a disadvantage to us.

Psa 103:13 Like as a father pitieth [his] children, [so] the LORD pitieth them that fear him. 14 For he knoweth our frame; he remembereth that we [are] dust.

[CrimsonKairos]

I disagree, based on experience (not exegesis).

Who said anything about boasting of our flesh, anyway?

[Guest Monica]

I disagree, based on experience (not exegesis).

Who said anything about boasting of our flesh, anyway?

The topic asks if "Our Inflictions Mental And Phsyical Chosen By Us In The Premortal". However, there hasn't been any scripture to defend that YES, on the contrary, the scriptures say NO. There are many opinons and "Maybe this or that" and "I think". Bottom line that some sort of scriputural documentation is required if you are going to council someone on things about The Lord.

This is what scriptures say about opinions:

Proverbs 18:2 A fool finds no pleasure in understanding, but delights in airing his own opinions.

[CrimsonKairos]

To continue with your line of reasoning:

You come across as a fool for airing your opinions about my experiences;

My experiences have shaped my beliefs;

You have not shared my experiences.

So yet again, I disagree. Everyone can believe what they want. The scriptures don't explicitly say, "No one elected to undergo certain trials here on earth." The scriptures don't explicitly say, "Some of us did." Pick your battles, no one's trying to establish doctrine here.

In the absence of explicit scriptures on the matter, I believe what I believe because of what I've endured. You're the least qualified person to comment on my experiences and the beliefs they've given rise to.

Have a nice day. :)

[Gwen]

the name of the topic is "are our inflictions mental and phsyical chosen by us in the premortal" but then the question is asked.....

What do you all think of this?

there is nothing wrong with discussing life experiance and your interpretation of the scriptures and doctrine. that is how our meetings are set up, we don't have trained preachers that have all the answers and simply preach those answers in a well rehearsed sermon. we take turns teaching lessons, giving talks in sacrament meeting, sharing our testamonies. we have been asked to seek truth in all good places, we are told to think things out for ourselves and then go to the lord for confirmation, we are told to share and to listen to others testamonies. when i share opinion i try to make sure i state that it's my opinion and i don't get offended if no one else agrees, and i will listen to others experiances, and if my thinking needs adjustment then i set about to make that adjustment. this life is about learning wisdom and gaining experiance, not memorization of principles. that being said if there is set out, plain spoken, no doubt about the answer to a question statment from the prophets and scripture out there, we should seek it and rely upon it, while still seeking confirmation and personal testamony of the principle. line upon line.