dirtydevil Posted January 18, 2013 Report Share Posted January 18, 2013 Or is it on other planets or in a different realm? Same question, but as it applies to the different degrees in Heaven. (both from a doctrinal standpoint, and individual beleifs) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dirtydevil Posted January 18, 2013 Author Report Share Posted January 18, 2013 Also, how do you imagine the place called outer darkness to be? Do you think these different places have physical boundaries? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vort Posted January 18, 2013 Report Share Posted January 18, 2013 On earth. I have no idea about the specific location or configuration of "outer darkness". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dirtydevil Posted January 18, 2013 Author Report Share Posted January 18, 2013 (edited) When I first heard of someone being cast into Outer Darkness, the thought that came to my mind was of being caste out into outer space like the defeated Darf Vader was in Star Wars. I dont think that is intirely accurate though. What about the Celestial, Terrestrial, and Telestial Kingdoms. What do you Imagine those to be like, and where? Edited January 18, 2013 by dirtydevil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vort Posted January 18, 2013 Report Share Posted January 18, 2013 1 Corinthians 2:9 "Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him." That said, I imagine the celestial kingdom to be much like our families at their very best and most loving. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dirtydevil Posted January 18, 2013 Author Report Share Posted January 18, 2013 What about for the other Kingdoms? I am also fairly interested in what is in the imagination, not only in doctrine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vort Posted January 18, 2013 Report Share Posted January 18, 2013 I have no opinion of and little interest in the other kingdoms. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RipplecutBuddha Posted January 18, 2013 Report Share Posted January 18, 2013 We really don't know, as there hasn't been too much revealed about the three kingdoms beyond these few general facts; -The Celestial, Terrestrial, and Telestial kingdoms are kingdoms of glory and are, together, considered what most protestant Christianity understands as Heaven to be. -Outer Darkness is not a kingdom of glory. It is what most protestant Christianity understands as Hell to be. -The vast majority of humanity will be saved in one of the three kingdoms of glory. -very few people will ever be in a position of risking being sent to Outer Darkness. Fewer still will actually commit the sins that warrant such a fate. There are, of course, some details beyond these. I recommend the Doctrine and Covenants for your further study. As to where these kingdoms are, what conditions there are like, etc., we don't have any details at all. Joseph Smith merely indicated in one sermon that the conditions in the Telestial kingdom, the lowest of the three, would be far and beyond even the most optimistic dreams of mankind of his day. I would suppose even our most optimistic dreams of today don't come close, but then nobody will know for sure until we get there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dirtydevil Posted January 18, 2013 Author Report Share Posted January 18, 2013 I also, thought of this earlier today: I understand that you beleive that everyone will have a perfect body after you die. You also beleive that only those who are married eternally will be able to have children in heaven. You also beleive that personal agency is an eternal principle. Doesnt it stand to reason that those three beleifs combined are conflicting each other. If you are unmarried in the Telestial or Terrestrial kingdoms, and have a perfectly working body (with perfectly working sex organs), and you have agency, than what would stop you from engaging in the procreative act or having children if you desire to do so? In order to resolve this conflict, which item in this equation would you limit or remove? If you beleive that Heavenly Father hasnt revealed an answer, please dont simply say that he has not revealed it; I am asking for an answer from you, irregardless of if it is correct. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vort Posted January 18, 2013 Report Share Posted January 18, 2013 I also, thought of this earlier today: I understand that you beleive that everyone will have a perfect body after you die. You also beleive that only those who are married eternally will be able to have children in heaven. You also beleive that personal agency is an eternal principle. Doesnt it stand to reason that those three beleifs combined are conflicting each other. If you are unmarried in the Telestial or Terrestrial kingdoms, and have a perfectly working body (with perfectly working sex organs), and you have agency, than what would stop you from engaging in the procreative act or having children if you desire to do so? In order to resolve this conflict, which item in this equation would you limit or remove? If you beleive that Heavenly Father hasnt revealed an answer, please dont simply say that he has not revealed it; I am asking for an answer from you, irregardless of if it is correct.This has not been revealed.But it seems obvious to me that the ability to create life is divinely bestowed. It therefore stands to reason that the ability to create life in the eternities is bestowed only upon those who have proven the ability to guard and wisely use such an ability. Thus, I assume that non-celestial beings do not, and probably cannot, procreate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mnn727 Posted January 18, 2013 Report Share Posted January 18, 2013 If you beleive that Heavenly Father hasnt revealed an answer, please dont simply say that he has not revealed it; I am asking for an answer from you, irregardless of if it is correct.So you're not looking for the right answer, just any old answer will do? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest LiterateParakeet Posted January 18, 2013 Report Share Posted January 18, 2013 Well, Dirtydevil, since the imagination is allowed, what do YOU imagine about all these things? Here are my best guesses, from my imagination based on doctrine where I understand it, but mostly my imaginings. Or is it on other planets or in a different realm? Same question, but as it applies to the different degrees in Heaven. (both from a doctrinal standpoint, and individual beleifs)I think the Spirit World is definately here. Kind of like the movie, Ghost, without the ghouls. I think it was James Ritchie that wrote Return from Tomorrow. I believe he really did have that NDE, and that is what it is like.About the three kingdoms, I have never thought too much about it. Getting through this life keeps me pretty well occupied. I find comfort though in the thought that even the lowest degree of glory will be better than this world. Yay! For all of us! I believe the Celestial Kingdom will be on this earth, but it will be renewed and upgraded, just as our bodies will be renewed. So I guess the other kingdoms will be on other planets...my best guess. If I could choose, I would like the Celestial Kingdom to be like the Garden of Eden as opposed to mansions and golden paved streets as I have heard some people's imaginations of Heaven.Also, how do you imagine the place called outer darkness to be? Do you think these different places have physical boundaries?Honestly, I never thought about it before, but since you asked. I think the name Outer Darkness is symbolic not literal. Christ is The Light of the World, so outer darkness would be a place outside of his presence eternally. Not literally dark though.When I first heard of someone being cast into Outer Darkness, the thought that came to my mind was of being caste out into outer space like the defeated Darf Vader was in Star Wars. I dont think that is intirely accurate though.What about the Celestial, Terrestrial, and Telestial Kingdoms. What do you Imagine those to be like, and where?LOL, thanks for sharing your imaginings. I answered this partially above, but I just want to add, I think they will all be wonderful, better than this life. I mean the Telestial Kingdom is compared to the stars in glory. I love the stars! It sounds like a wonderful place. The Terrestrial like the Moon...I am so in love with the moon! Some people like sunsets, but I love the moon. And then there is the sun, so bright I can't even look at it. Mostly, I just LOVE the idea that the God I believe in loves all his children, even the Hitler's and Sandusky's etc of this world enough to give them a better place in the next world.As to your last question...interesting. I never thought about it before. Fortunately for you we have a rule in my family that you can't say "I don't know" (it makes for a lazy mind). You have to at least try a hypothesis. So my hypothesis to your question would be that perfect may not mean perfect in the sense that we know it. Maybe perfect means, never growing old or getting sick, but does not mean fertile or with any sex drive whatsoever. Again...my best guess. Who knows? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dirtydevil Posted January 18, 2013 Author Report Share Posted January 18, 2013 Do you think that god has bestowed on animals in heaven to procreate? Maybe they cant, but that would seem quite unnatural to me. So if God did bestow the gift of procreation to animals, it would seem that he might also bestow that gift to humans that live somewhat more like animals. Especially, considering that most humans (in my opinion) are more self sacraficing than other animals, even if they were not counted worthy of exaltation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dirtydevil Posted January 18, 2013 Author Report Share Posted January 18, 2013 I beleive in reincarnation Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest LiterateParakeet Posted January 18, 2013 Report Share Posted January 18, 2013 I can only speak for myself, but I'm "done" until you acknowledge the answers you have already received. Just a thanks would help. AND share some of your ideas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dirtydevil Posted January 18, 2013 Author Report Share Posted January 18, 2013 I beleive in the agency of continued birth and death for humans and other animals in the hereafter. I beleive that we can choose if , when, where, and how to come back to a mortal existance between periods of bardo, also known as the spirit world. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dirtydevil Posted January 18, 2013 Author Report Share Posted January 18, 2013 Thank you for answering my questions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dirtydevil Posted January 18, 2013 Author Report Share Posted January 18, 2013 Joseph F. Smith had this to say about reincarnation, "Now can it be supposed that these particles were inactive and dormant from all eternity until the received their organization in the form of the infant spirit?…If they were once organized in the vegetable kingdom, and then disorganized by becoming food of celestial animal, and then again re-organized in the form of the spirits of animals, which is a higher sphere or being, then, is it unreasonable to suppose that the particles have, from all eternity, being passed through an endless chain of unions and disunions, organizations and disorganizations, until at length they are permitted to enter into the highest and most exalted sphere of organization in the image and likeness of God?" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dirtydevil Posted January 18, 2013 Author Report Share Posted January 18, 2013 The state of Bardo between mortal existances.Bardo - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Connie Posted January 18, 2013 Report Share Posted January 18, 2013 Joseph F. Smith had this to say about reincarnation,"Now can it be supposed that these particles were inactive and dormant from all eternity until the received their organization in the form of the infant spirit?…If they were once organized in the vegetable kingdom, and then disorganized by becoming food of celestial animal, and then again re-organized in the form of the spirits of animals, which is a higher sphere or being, then, is it unreasonable to suppose that the particles have, from all eternity, being passed through an endless chain of unions and disunions, organizations and disorganizations, until at length they are permitted to enter into the highest and most exalted sphere of organization in the image and likeness of God?"Not sure where you got your information on this, but this was actually written by Orson Pratt in a publication call The Seer. You can read about that here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Seer_(periodical)Please note the statement made by the First Presidency under Resulting Doctrinal Controversy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dirtydevil Posted January 18, 2013 Author Report Share Posted January 18, 2013 Reference Orson Pratt,*The Seer. pg. 102. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dirtydevil Posted January 18, 2013 Author Report Share Posted January 18, 2013 I thought that it was interesting that in Tibetan Buddhism, they also beleive in a life review after we die, based on having a perfect memory. Perhaps the spirit world, or bardo, is outside of the fabric of the space-time continuem, and that is what makes this possible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest LiterateParakeet Posted January 18, 2013 Report Share Posted January 18, 2013 Dirtydevil, thanks for the quote, wherever it came from it is good food for thought. (Connie the link didn't work for me). My husband and I have pondered...just for fun...could it really be possible or fair for a fly to remain a fly for eternity? I think probably not. So I like the idea of a form of reincarnation that allows insects, crustations, birds, fish, animals etc, etc to progress to human form. Who knows. We believe we were "intelligences" before we were spirits, but what are "intelligences". My understanding of Buddism is limited to my current interest in meditation, but hey that's a start, right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Traveler Posted January 18, 2013 Report Share Posted January 18, 2013 I beleive in reincarnationWhy? You do not believe in evolution?The Traveler Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Traveler Posted January 18, 2013 Report Share Posted January 18, 2013 I thought that it was interesting that in Tibetan Buddhism, they also beleive in a life review after we die, based on having a perfect memory. Perhaps the spirit world, or bardo, is outside of the fabric of the space-time continuem, and that is what makes this possible.Your thinking is too limited to the 3 dimensional space-time.The Traveler Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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