Church maintains association with BSA

[RipplecutBuddha]

I honestly couldn't see why the church would break ties with the BSA over allowing gay scouts, nor do I see it happening should the BSA lift the ban for gay scout leaders.

official release here.

[annewandering]

I was pleased that they affirmed that it has ALWAYS been policy to not discriminate against gay kids. Chastity is the issue not gayness. Now for those people who have always insisted on giving grief to kids, its time to get with the program that the church has laid out and not give into personal prejudices.

[Letrell]

I was pleased that they affirmed that it has ALWAYS been policy to not discriminate against gay kids. Chastity is the issue not gayness. Now for those people who have always insisted on giving grief to kids, its time to get with the program that the church has laid out and not give into personal prejudices.

I absolutely agree with you about the gay vs. chastity comment. So understand that before I make this next comment......

Should the vote today be announced that those men/boys that are gay are permitted to remain in boy scouts, I assure you, membership will drop dramatically. This will include my boys. They have just earned Eagle Scout..both of them...working fast and furious to earn it before the gay issue is voted on. I am proud of them.

I am not sure to what extent they will disassociate themselves, we haven't discussed it yet as a family...assuredly, we will this weekend. They will no longer work for BSA at camps. That is out. Not happening.

My boys and daughter in GSA, will NOT be put in a situation where others believe it is just fine to engage in this activity....they are minors! It is NOT okay. Putting aside for a moment the Church's stand. THEY ARE MINORS. What the heck are they doing becoming physical with anyone?

I would not place my daughter in a situation where a female has access to her any more than I would to permit a male to have access to her. Nor will I place my sons in that position....same comment, different sex.

I believe in everyone, regardless of who they are, has the right to choose how he/she will live...that includes what I firmly believe to be perverted. None of my business. But when it crosses over into my house, my family, my children....I am a mother. I protect my children with a vengeance. IT IS NOT HAPPENING.

I stand by that publicly and privately. I do not care if my stance is unpopular. I do not care if it is called "not politically correct". It is my house, my family, my children, MY DECISION.

Wow, did I ever go on. Obviously, I am passionate about the issue.

I wish all those in BSA well...straight or otherwise. I wish no ill-will.

None of this...not even an iota is meant as vicious towards you. Please don't take it that way. Your comments are spot on. It is their choice. And I do appreciate your thoughts and feelings. I hope you can understand mine.

Take care.

[annewandering]

The church has made it clear that chastity is the issue and the requirement. For everyone.

[bytor2112]

Why would a boy want other boys to know he had homosexual tendency's? He wouldn't...but the Gay lobby has an agenda to force on everyone, even children. It is a sad day for Boy Scouts and yet another victory in force feeding the notion that homosexuality is somehow normal and any thought to the contrary is hateful and bigoted.

I served as a Scout Master for nearly 4 years and have a son that is an Eagle Scout and I would not now accept a calling involved with the Scout organization. A sad day indeed....Satan and his angels are howling with delight this night over this weak and spiritually lost generation.

Amid tears of sorrow—our hearts heavy with forebodings—we see evil and crime and carnality covering the earth. Liars and thieves and adulterers and homosexuals and murderers scarcely seek to hide their abominations from our view. Iniquity abounds. There is no peace on earth.-Elder Bruce r. McConkie

Edited May 24, 2013 by bytor2112

[annewandering]

Finding the balance between loving the person and not enabling a sin is not easy to do. That does not mean we have to not try. By backing away we do not help the cause of God's love or justice. Don't these gay boys deserve our help in establishing a strong moral base? We know they are going to have a hard time with earthly desires conflicting with moral laws in their lives. Doesnt it make sense to help them and support them to make good choices and to know that they have a home with us?

[LittleWyvern]

What I love about this statement,

The Church’s long-established policy for participation in activities is stated in the basic instructional handbook used by lay leaders of the Church: “young men … who agree to abide by Church standards” are “welcomed warmly and encouraged to participate” (Handbook 2: Administering the Church [2010], 8.17.3). This policy applies to Church-sponsored Scout units. Sexual orientation has not previously been—and is not now—a disqualifying factor for boys who want to join Latter-day Saint Scout troops. Willingness to abide by standards of behavior continues to be our compelling interest.

is that the Church is applying the same standards it has always had for Church activities long before this controversy to Church-sponsored activities as well. We welcome all youth who are actively striving to follow Church standards to Church activities, and I don't see why Church-sponsored activities, including the BSA, should be any different. I think the Church's statement is both consistent and fair, and a positive thing for both the Church and the BSA.

As an aside, I had hoped this would address the concerns of those clamoring for a full boycott of everything BSA, but the amount of my Facebook friends who were supportive of a boycott who are now disappointed in the Church is a bit disheartening.

[bytor2112]

I was pleased that they affirmed that it has ALWAYS been policy to not discriminate against gay kids. Chastity is the issue not gayness. Now for those people who have always insisted on giving grief to kids, its time to get with the program that the church has laid out and not give into personal prejudices.

Your statement is causing a small blood vessel in my forehead to bulge. Those people that always insisted on giving grief to kids??????? I have been involved in Scouting since my kids were 6 years old, that is 13 years. I have volunteered and served as a leader of tigers, Bobcats, Wolves and Bears...all outside of the church and in the church as Webeloe leader, 11 year old Scout Leader and as Scout Master and I have NEVER ever heard of anyone giving grief to a kid as you say because of homosexuality. Frankly, I would not have known if a kid has same sex attraction or not nor would I have ever said anything to one if i did know, other than perhaps a gentle correction if they had been acting in a manner not in keeping with Scouting, just as I would have any young person.

Your statement reeks of ignorance and is so insulting to all of the men and women who have volunteered in the scouting organization over the years because they care.

Edited May 24, 2013 by bytor2112

[annewandering]

Your statement is causing a small blood vessel in my forehead bulge. Those people that always insisted on giving grief to kids??????? I have been involved in Scouting since my kids were 6 years old, that is 13 years. I have volunteered and served as a leader of tigers, Bobcats, Wolves and Bears...all outside of the church and in the church as Webeloe leader, 11 year old Scout Leader and as Scout Master and I have NEVER ever heard of anyone giving grief to a kid as you say because of homosexuality. Frankly, I would not have known if a kid has same sex attraction or not nor would I have ever said anything to one if i did know, other than perhaps a gentle correction if they had been acting in a manner not in keeping with Scouting, just as I would have any young person.

Your statement reeks of ignorance and is so insulting to all of the men and women who have volunteered in the scouting organization over the years because they care.

I certainly was not referring to people who never hurt any kid. Why would you assume I did? Most people in scouting are good people and do a lot for the kids they work with. I have nothing but admiration for them. The ONLY people I refer to are those that made kids feel unwelcome because they guessed the kid might be gay. You know there are some like that. My guess is they are rare and hopefully become even more rare. Bytor, I have no reason to think that you are anything but a blessing to the kids you come in contact with. I apologize for giving you any reason to think I would have been referring to you or the many multitudes of generous adults who work in the scouting programs.

[Guest]

Serious question...

If you're "actively" gay, are you still a boy?

[annewandering]

Serious question...

If you're "actively" gay, are you still a boy?

Not if you are a girl.

[Soulsearcher]

Serious question...

If you're "actively" gay, are you still a boy?

I think this is probably one of the oddest things i've ever heard. Why on earth would i not be a boy/man because i'm gay? Does it change my gender in any way? do i all of a sudden have pieces falling off? I remember before chat closed a guy in there constantly referred to me as "she" or "her" and i thought it was so funny because to me it showed nothing but ignorance.

[Soulsearcher]

Why would a boy want other boys to know he had homosexual tendency's? He wouldn't...but the Gay lobby has an agenda to force on everyone, even children. It is a sad day for Boy Scouts and yet another victory in force feeding the notion that homosexuality is somehow normal and any thought to the contrary is hateful and bigoted.

I can give an answer as to why if you are actually interested in hearing it. Growing up if there was even a hint of someone thinking you were gay your life got a lot harder real quick. Adults passed down stereo types and bias to their kids and kids took it out on other kids. So you kept quiet, you tried to change things and it does have a very negative effect in a lot of ways. Now keep in mind i wasn't an "active" gay til my 30's, but the fear and negative experiences from my youth made life difficult. I would have loved the ability to be me without having to constantly worry. When all my friends were talking girls instead of playing along being able to say i'm not interested in them and just moving on with things. Now you can ask what this has to do with being out and letting people know. In my experience growing up more so between the ages of 10-16 when i got out of scouting boy talked girls and sex. If you constantly avoid the talks or get visibly nervous or awkward they do tend to pick up on it and you are labeled odd or gay by default. Setting up environments where we can be part of society and not made to feel like human garbage even if we aren't acting on things to me is a good thing and i'm not sure why it's an issue for people who are supposed to love the sinner(even if by following the scouts code they aren't really sinning)

The question i have is now that the BSA has moved to exactly the same policy the church has, why is this such a dark day. If the church has the right idea, how is it wrong if another organization follows in it's foot steps?

[bytor2112]

Soulsearcher, it really isn't about the kids. It's about the agenda driven maniacs behind it. I do not think that a boy or young teen needs to announce to his fellow scouters that he has homosexual tendencies. What purpose does it serve? If other boys don't want to associate with another kid because they suspect he is homosexual....this isn't isn't going to make him change his mind. If scouts are being abusive or hateful or are ostracizing another scout for whatever reason...fat, ugly, skinny, annoying, whatever, that is not in keeping with Scout Spirit. I don't think you will find another organization whose leaders would be less inclined to turn a blind eye to mean behavior, particularly if the leader suspected that the scout might be different in that regard.

Part of being morally clean would actually mean NOT participating in conversations about sex. Not participating would mean that you are actually living the Scout law. Injecting this dynamic was unnecessary and only served the purposes of some very selfish agenda driven adults. Sorry you had some bad experiences growing up..........lots of people do for a plethora of reasons and not just because of homosexuality.

Edited May 24, 2013 by bytor2112

[Soulsearcher]

Soulsearcher, it really isn't about the kids. It's about the agenda driven maniacs behind it. I do not think that a boy or young teen needs to announce to his fellow scouters that he has homosexual tendencies. What purpose does it serve? If other boys don't want to associate with another kid because they suspect he is homosexual....this isn't isn't going to make him change his mind. If scouts are being abusive or hateful or are ostracizing another scout for whatever reason...fat, ugly, skinny, annoying, whatever, that is not in keeping with Scout Spirit. I don't think you will find another organization whose leaders would be less inclined to turn a blind eye to mean behavior, particularly if the leader suspected that the scout might be different in that regard.

Part of being morally clean would actually mean NOT participating in conversations about sex. Not participating would mean that you are actually living the Scout law. Injecting this dynamic was unnecessary and only served the purposes of some very selfish agenda driven adults. Sorry you had some bad experiences growing up..........lots of people do for a plethora reasons and not just because of homosexuality.

I'd like to know for sure how you know this doesn't effect a gay child. Please tell me how many you've asked about being able to be honest and how many would like to just have a place to belong with out being cast out for who they are even if they really aren't doing something against the rules?i wish there was a way to explain how much easier life gets if you can be open. i know everyone thinks it's stupid and just an attention getter but i wish there was a way i could get the impact and such to be understood. I think most people seem to think of the out in your face stereo types and it's skewed a lot of views. Just being able to say to someone when they ask about my wife or girl friends and being honest makes life easier. I'd like to see a time when the pre teen-teen age kid can just be honest and matter of fact. It doesn't have to be in your face or even sexual, just a simple ability to say hey this is me. Yes this is a huge thing to the "gay movement" because it really is a life changer. Does it always make life

better, no, but it does make a big change in life when you can be honest.

And i also agree with you that so many groups can be targeted by youth to be bullied or humiliated, the problem being is that adults have shown through their attitudes that certain groups are ok to mock or see as less than worthy of respect or understanding. " are gay boys really boys?" " why is it important that people know?" Adults telling a group of people to keep quiet and hide tells youth that this group doesn't deserve to be treated with respect. Also the thing being again is it's not all about sex and dirty naughty things.(yes this might be a point of view issue) but youth talk about interactions and relationships, it's just as simple as a simple crush. Why does any one talk about these things? How many people never talked with their peers about a crush or someone they found attractive? So if you did that ask yourself why, and you have an understanding of why a gay kid would do the same.

To a degree i'm surprised more so about LDS who don't get this idea. A small group that's really misunderstood and yet who has a membership that tends to scream from the mountain tops "I'M LDS!!!!!" A group that many have tried to minimize and dilute their image and yet they don't hide and sneak quietly, they lift their heads proud of who they are.

[Wingnut]

Serious question...

If you're "actively" gay, are you still a boy?

Seriously? What kind of a question is that??

[MarginOfError]

I think your concerns about the youth are overstated, bytor.

From the Voice of the Scout Survey

Teens first read the current Boy Scouts of America membership and leadership requirements prohibiting open homosexuals from being Scouts or adult leaders. Fifty-seven percent of general population teens opposed the current policy; 38 percent strongly opposed this policy. Similarly, 56 percent of Boy Scouts and Venturers opposed the policy, with 42 percent strongly opposing it. Fifty-eight percent of past Scouts and Venturers oppose the current policy, with 31 percent strongly opposing.

Scenario 2: A troop leader allows an openly gay Scout to tent with a heterosexual boy on an overnight camping trip. Totally/somewhat acceptable among 56 percent of general population teens, 50 percent of current Boy Scouts and Venturers, and 54 percent of former members

Scenario 5: A gay adult leader takes adolescent boys on an overnight camping trip. Totally/somewhat acceptable among 52 percent of general population teens, 55 percent of Boy Scouts and Venturers, and 61 percent of former members.

After having read the six scenarios, 61 percent of general population teens and 57 percent of Boy Scouts and Venturers oppose the current requirements. This represents an increase of four percentage points among the general population teens and one percentage point for the Boy Scouts and Venturers in opposition to the current policy. [from before they read the six scenarios]

Increasingly, the youth in America just don't care if you're gay or not. If the youth don't care that their tent mate is gay, why should I?

[carlimac]

The church has made it clear that chastity is the issue and the requirement. For everyone.

Problem is...does the BSA ever kick a boy out if he has a chastity issue? I'm absolutley positive there are heterosexual boys in BSA who have been sexually active. I've never heard of a bishop refusing to let a young man go on a high adventure or scout camp or keep him out of troop meetings because he messed around with his girlfriend. So if a homosexual boy acts on his sexual impulses, will the BSA 1) find out or 2) kick him out?

Edited May 24, 2013 by carlimac

[MarginOfError]

Problem is...does the BSA ever kick a boy out if he has a chastity issue? I'm absolutley positive there are heterosexual boys in BSA who have been sexually active. So if a homosexual boy acts on his sexual impulses, will the BSA 1) find out or 2) kick him out?

The BSA is likely to stay out of it and let the chartering organization make the call here.

[carlimac]

Increasingly, the youth in America just don't care if you're gay or not. If the youth don't care that their tent mate is gay, why should I?

How do you know? I think some kids care a whole lot more than you think they do.

[Guest]

I think this is probably one of the oddest things i've ever heard. Why on earth would i not be a boy/man because i'm gay? Does it change my gender in any way? do i all of a sudden have pieces falling off? I remember before chat closed a guy in there constantly referred to me as "she" or "her" and i thought it was so funny because to me it showed nothing but ignorance.

Because being a boy is not just about what type of genitalia you posses.

BOY Scouts is targetted SPECIFICALLY to those attributes that are developed as Boys in Society. Not boy-genitalia-carrying people who don't care to develop the common male attributes.

That's the reason there is also GIRL Scouts. Girls have different programs designed to develop those attributes for the female role in society.

A gay male seems to have different mixture of attributes that may not be suited for BOY Scouting, although this observation is limited to my exposure with my gay friend and his gay friends - they act and behave like girls and do girl-things like fashion and home-making and flirting with boys.

With Church Scouting - I understand this. Because, we are trying to develop the male role in boys - gay or otherwise. But, the GLBT group don't want this, in my understanding. They don't want gay men to have to carry that male gender role, hence the push for gay marriage.

So, really, I understand the Boy Scout decision. I understand that the goal is to develop the MALE gender role in boys - gay or otherwise. Same as what the Church is doing. But, if I understand the GBLT agenda, this is not what they want, so, the only thing I can gather out of this is that the GBLT will not stop until the male gender role is ripped apart in scouting.

Edited May 24, 2013 by anatess

[carlimac]

The BSA is likely to stay out of it and let the chartering organization make the call here.

My question again...Does a bishop ever refuse to let a boy go to scout camp over sexual indisgression?

If porn is against staying clean and chaste, the scout camps would be awfully empty.

I just don't think the BSA or even the church really follows through on the chastity requirements (to stay a member of scouts anyway) unless the kid is blatant, open and unrepentant about his sexual activity. In that case he probably isn't all that interested in Boy Scouts anyway.

[MarginOfError]

How do you know? I think some kids care a whole lot more than you think they do.

I know that half of the youth surveyed in the Voice of the Scout responded that having a gay tent mate was acceptable. My understanding is that this number is higher than it's ever been and is likely to continue increasing.

When I have a boy come to me and tell me that he is concerned about sharing a tent with another boy-for any reason-I listen to him and work with him to come to a solution. Which is exactly as it should be.

[MarginOfError]

Because being a boy is not just about what type of genitalia you posses.

BOY Scouts is targetted SPECIFICALLY to those attributes that are developed as Boys in Society. Not boy-genitalia-carrying people who don't care to develop the common male attributes.

That's the reason there is also GIRL Scouts. Girls have different programs designed to develop those attributes for the female role in society.

A gay male seems to have different mixture of attributes that may not be suited for BOY Scouting.

With Church Scouting - I understand this. Because, we are trying to develop the male role in boys - gay or otherwise. But, the GLBT group don't want this, in my understanding. They don't want gay men to carry that gender role, hence the push for gay marriage.

The level of uninformed stereotyping in this comment is foul.

[MarginOfError]

My question again...Does a bishop ever refuse to let a boy go to scout camp over sexual indisgression?

If porn is against staying clean and chaste, the scout camps would be awfully empty.

Not typically, unless the indiscretions are occurring at camp. It's the whole thing about you can't help a person if you kick them out of your fellowship.

I just don't think the BSA or even the church really follows through on the chastity requirements (to stay a member of scouts anyway) unless the kid is blatant, open and unrepentant about his sexual activity. In that case he probably isn't all that interested in Boy Scouts anyway.

do you think they should be expelling young men from the youth programs for sexual indiscretion?