Children bound by our covenants

[Torn]

This has always been confusing to me. I have heard it a LOT lately, when it comes to having a wayward child (of which I have one), that he is bound to me because of covenants we made in the temple.

Okay, so my sister was married in the temple and has lived worthily her entire life. Her five children have all left the church for one reason or another, at least one is an athiest, and one runs a "mormon recovery" group of which her other three children are a part of. They do their very best to "save" the mormons from going to hell - all in the name of God - by convincing us to denounce our religion and join their group.

Anyway - she relies on that promise, that her children are bound to her because of her covenants. How can they be?

Just because my parents have always kept their covenants, does this mean I will be saved no matter the life I choose to live?

I'm so confused.

[estradling75]

We don't know much about the workings of the Parent/Child Sealing.

So what do you expect having your children sealed/bound to you to mean?

Do you expect that it will pull your child kicking and screaming into the Celestial Kingdom and Exaltation in spite of themselves? This expectation seems run counter to all the teachings about agency so it seems very unlikely.

Do you expect that it will potentially give your child an 'Alma the Younger/Sons of Mosiah' opening to convert and repent? This seems reasonable with enough faith, but its is still the child's responsibility to do what they need to do.

Do you expect that it will allow you to associate and visit your child where ever they might end up? Much like you can now? (assuming an independent adult child) This seems to be almost a given.

[YaYaYaYana]

I think that only applies to children who are living worthily in the Gospel. As long as they are living a righteous life themselves they are also protected by their parents covenants as well. However, if they completely and ultimately leave the church forever and continue the activities they are doing now without repenting and turning back I don't think they can be saved under their parents covenants.

God doesn't have grandchildren only children~ Is what i heard one pastor say ~ which means that eventually everyone is responsible for their actions in life whether to follow God and be saved or not

[Traveler]

This has always been confusing to me. I have heard it a LOT lately, when it comes to having a wayward child (of which I have one), that he is bound to me because of covenants we made in the temple.

Okay, so my sister was married in the temple and has lived worthily her entire life. Her five children have all left the church for one reason or another, at least one is an athiest, and one runs a "mormon recovery" group of which her other three children are a part of. They do their very best to "save" the mormons from going to hell - all in the name of God - by convincing us to denounce our religion and join their group.

Anyway - she relies on that promise, that her children are bound to her because of her covenants. How can they be?

Just because my parents have always kept their covenants, does this mean I will be saved no matter the life I choose to live?

I'm so confused.

This should not be so confusing. I think problems arise in various misconceptions concerning the Plan of Salvation or Plan of Happiness. I will reference you to Alma chapter 13. This gives us an indication that in order for someone to have the opportunity to enter into covenants that they must have made covenants to do so in the Pre-Existence. So only those that made covenant to do so in the Pre-Existence will have opportunity to be sealed. Therefore, children are bound by covenants that they made in the Pre-Existence in order to be children of parents that marry or are sealed by covenant.

The other problem is that many do not understand the probationary time which includes this life as well as that time following death unit we are prepared to make accounting of our covenants before G-d at what is known as the final judgement. I would point out that it is never a good idea to be disobedient to covenants with the idea of repenting at some future time.

I believe that it is always possible during the entire time of our probation to repent. I have a few siblings that are not interested in attending to covenant responsibilities or associating themselves to any religion. One brother loves telling me that he fully expects that when he gets to the gates of heaven and he tells them who's son he is that he will be escorted in with reverence - just because of our prominent parents and the fact that such has been the case his entire life. My response to my brother that such thinking is likely a good plan and that he should always live to honor our parents and family name - even if he is not interested in church. Which BTW he does.

I am quite sure that every intended kindness and good effort will not go unnoticed by our merciful, compassionate, kind and just G-d.

The Traveler

Edited June 10, 2013 by Traveler

[Just_A_Guy]

Just because my parents have always kept their covenants, does this mean I will be saved no matter the life I choose to live?

I'm so confused.

Some good quotes on the matter are here.

These quotes promise that wayward children will be saved and somehow bound to their parents, but notice that they do not (except, arguably, President Snow's quote; and my reply would be that he's speaking a bit ambiguously), promise exaltation.

[Anddenex]

Some good quotes on the matter are here.

These quotes promise that wayward children will be saved and somehow bound to their parents, but notice that they do not (except, arguably, President Snow's quote; and my reply would be that he's speaking a bit ambiguously), promise exaltation.

Wish they had Joseph Fielding Smith's comment in "Doctrines of Salvation." His interpretation rings most true to me with regard to Joseph Smith original statement as quoted here.

In short, will have to find the quote when I return home, he mentioned a child will not be able to receive exaltation according to the merits of their parents, this contradicts revealed truth, however he mentioned they would be able to bring them into the Celestial kingdom. Found:

"...children born under the covenant, who drift away, are still the children of their parents; and the parents have a claim upon them; and if they children have not sinned away all their rights, the parents may be able to bring them through repentance, into the celestial kingdom, but not to receive the exaltation" (Doctrines of Salvation, Book 2, page 91).

However, I do wonder, in Joseph Smith's case if his posterity extends beyond JSF's quote. How would Joseph Smith's children turned out if he was not martyred and were alive and well raising his seed. I wonder to regarding the work he completed if he, himself, received special promises from the Lord unbeknownst to us. Edited June 11, 2013 by Anddenex

[Anddenex]

Just because my parents have always kept their covenants, does this mean I will be saved no matter the life I choose to live?

I'm so confused.

I am honestly not fond of this being taught according to our understanding and the limited clarification regarding these quotes.

In Arizona, my brother had a friend who was dating a non-member and they were sexually intimate before his baptism and after his baptism. When approached on their choices and decisions, their reply,

We don't have to worry about being good or keeping all the commandments, our parents will save us, they live righteous lives.

I think these are great quotes to ponder and seek true understanding, but when they are not we see these choices.

Catch22 maybe...

[Martain]

Is there a difference between the blessings of being born under the covenant or being sealed into it?

Obtain a Celestial Glory riding on the coat tails of another? If the worthiness of your parents was all it took then the surest way to save all of God's children would be to seal EVERYONE to such an individual.

Lucifer was God's spirit son but he won't obtain salvation.

My original post is below but upon posting it I learned that something I wrote below was untrue. I'm not sure what yet and since I have work I don't have time right now to find out and correct it.

-

If all it took to ensure someone's eventual salvation in the celestial kingdom was being sealed to virtuous parents then perhaps we should all go out and be Having been one of those wayward children myself I can attest that there is indeed power and truth in that promise.

Blessings are based on obedience. Certain blessings can only be found by obedience to temple covenants. The Lord never fails to uphold his side of the covenant. Even if parents keep there's that still leaves the child. Wayward children cut themselves off from a great many blessings from the Lord.

Is it hard to believe that the blessings most likely to lead such wayward children back to the fountain from which they were raised are predicated upon obedience to temple covenants? Is it hard to believe that while the wayward shut the windows of heaven by sin, the parents may open them on their behalf by obedience?

Is it hard to believe that such blessings as mentioned above are of such a nature that outside of procrastinating their repentance until it is everlastingly too late and sinning unto death the child will return?

Not all will return but it won't be for lack of effort by the Lord.

That's how I see it.

Brother M.

Edited June 12, 2013 by Martain

[JanSan]

I am not sure if it is to late to respond to this question...... but I have a thought that I would like to share about it anyway.

I also have a son who has gone astray and this has been a real heartbreak to me as he is my only Biological child. He went on a mission and was a great missionary and even got to extend his mission. This is very rarely done these days.

Anyway, in a blessing my Bishop gave me he mentioned this and it kind of bothered me and seemed somewhat unfair that it would just be given to them no matter what they did.

In reading all the replies here a thought accrued to me that maybe what it means is that the sealing work for them is already done. That they will have to go through the repentance stage for what they have done but that they will not have to wait for their work to done like so many others have to. When they are done with their individual repentance then the sealing will be in affect for them.

[Dravin]

A revelevant conference quote:

I believe and accept the comforting statement of Elder Orson F. Whitney:

“The Prophet Joseph Smith declared—and he never taught more comforting doctrine—that the eternal sealings of faithful parents and the divine promises made to them for valiant service in the Cause of Truth, would save not only themselves, but likewise their posterity. Though some of the sheep may wander, the eye of the Shepherd is upon them, and sooner or later they will feel the tentacles of Divine Providence reaching out after them and drawing them back to the fold. Either in this life or the life to come, they will return. They will have to pay their debt to justice; they will suffer for their sins; and may tread a thorny path; but if it leads them at last, like the penitent Prodigal, to a loving and forgiving father’s heart and home, the painful experience will not have been in vain. Pray for your careless and disobedient children; hold on to them with your faith. Hope on, trust on, till you see the salvation of God.”

A principle in this statement that is often overlooked is that they must fully repent and “suffer for their sins” and “pay their debt to justice.” I recognize that now is the time “to prepare to meet God.” If the repentance of the wayward children does not happen in this life, is it still possible for the cords of the sealing to be strong enough for them yet to work out their repentance? In the Doctrine and Covenants we are told, “The dead who repent will be redeemed, through obedience to the ordinances of the house of God,

“And after they have paid the penalty of their transgressions, and are washed clean, shall receive a reward according to their works, for they are heirs of salvation.”

Link: Dear Are the Sheep That Have Wandered - general-conference

Edited September 23, 2013 by Dravin

[ChronoTrigger]

Everything will work itself out in heaven. Just keep loving children and being a good example.

[Seminarysnoozer]

As I get older, the relationship that I have with my parents has changed. I am very close to my mother, in fact, we don't live that far away from each other and so I help her with her shopping and cleaning the house. I make sure she is ready to go to church on time, driver her there, sit with her and help her get from place to place. As she has declined over the years and despite having a PhD in literature, I have found that I have to care for her about equal hours I do with my own children. I think I have grown even closer to my mom over the past 10 years than I have the rest of the years (not giving away my age).

I think if I am fortunate enough to merit the Celestial Kingdom along with my family, our relationship will be greater than mother-daughter, mother-child. It will be a closer bond than even that. And it will be that way to all those who are in the Celestial Kingdom. I can't imagine there will be someone in the "corner" that I don't know their name, their experiences, etc. Because every one of those who make it into the Celestial Kingdom love their neighbor as their self. In other words, they would have to know everyone there as they know their self. There we find 100% intimacy. Just like there is nothing hidden from God, for all those in the Celestial Kingdom, there is nothing hidden ... and they like it that way. Those who want even a piece of proprietary experience or knowledge will find their self in a lesser kingdom in a graded fashion. Family life forces intimacy and in that way it is a test to see if we like that way of life or not or to what degree. God will give us that level of intimacy with our brothers and sisters that we would like.

Edited September 24, 2013 by Seminarysnoozer