Help My Marriage

[WaterJim]

Relationship Issues

Let me start by telling you I Love my wife and will do whatever it takes to save our marriage. We have been married 7 years, and I am 32 and she is 30. We have two beautiful boys that I adore and have been so blessed to have in my life.

My wife is a convert of a little over 8 years but she was not converted because anything I did, I just happened to be in the ward and reap the benefit of her getting Baptized. It was such a blessing to have her come in my life. She was dating an inactive guy when she joined and they did break the law of Chastity after she was Baptized. They broke it off and I stepped in and we Dated just a few months before I purposed. I waited for her as she worked through her repentance process, but we did get married in the Temple after she got through it.

I would not say our marriage has been perfect but I think it has still been wonderful in many ways. Our sex life has not always been the greatest and I would try to do things to improve it like talk to her about what she wants. I would read marriage books and ask if she would do the same which she would refuse. She did not have too many answers as to why she was not into it. Mainly she would say she is just not into sex and that she has been doing it since she was 15 and that she does not care for it and could go without it. She would still do it for me maybe once a week which I feel she just did as a wife duty or something.

Other things have not always been perfect at the home but I never expected them to be and knew we would both get better. The home is always a mess and I may get one meal made for me a week, despite her being a stay at home Mom. She wakes up when the boys do which is around 9AM everyday and she has them take a two hour nap everyday, which she also takes. I have asked for improvements at the house without trying to be mean but she gets angry at me for mentioning it. I try to do my part, of course doing all the outside work and trash, I cook every Sunday and sometimes more and pick up dinners the rest of the nights, and I do help around the house when she gets far behind.

I am EQPres and she works with young woman right now. It has been kind of a joke that one of the young men like her and his Dad joked about it and so did I. Well the past couple months my wife has been bringing him up and wanted to go to his baseball games which I said is not really appropriate especially since he likes you, but I went along with it. Well it has continued and she wanted to take him to an amusement park which I again said would not be appropriate but again went along with, I had told her she should invite one of her young woman if she was to invite anyone but she would not have it. I was trying to listen to the promptings of the Holy Ghost but she would not listen to me.

Well next she wanted to have a party at the home and invite families from the ward. Again I was not ok with him coming over but it would be her way. Well that night at midnight we got a call from the boys Mom , my wife was already up and on facebook. I was also up because I was upset the way she had treated me at the party so I was still awake. The 17 year old priests Mom had found the correspondence between them both and it was sexual conversations, along with her just telling him that after today I see a future together. I have come to find out later from his Dad what exactly some of the conversations were. She planned on leaving me while he went on a mission. They would talk about positions and many of the things they would like to do together. Many hurtful things that I never expected, the list is long and I don’t need to repeat it all.

Well that night after she got off the phone with his Mom who was understandably very upset, she talked to me. She let me know many things I had not known and it was crushing to me. First about the conversations on facebook, well a watered down version compared to what I got from his Dad. Another maybe more hurtful thing to me was that she Loved me as a friend, but not sexually and never has. She tried to blame me that I would not talk to her or listen, but it was the complete opposite, I would always be the one trying to figure out our sexual problems. I was blown away, why would you want to have kids with me if you don’t love me and we were planning to try again this winter? She also degraded me by telling me she was not attracted to me physically. She let me know that she did enjoy sex with the guy before me so she knew that she could enjoy it. Another thing I found out that night was that she was fondled by a close relative when she was younger. She dropped a lot of bombs on me that night.

I cry, pray, read, workout, try to be more helpful around the house, and do all that I can to try to help the situation and help myself. She has met with the Bishop once and I met with him briefly later on. She also just met for the first time a couple days ago with an LDS Family services counselor.

She has done the opposite of what I have been trying, she has been cold and mean to me. No longer can I hold her hand or put my arm around her. I have tried the past two Sundays to put my arm around her and she cringes and squirms away. I have tried to tell her that we can fix our sexual problems and whatever else, but she does not want to her it. As I have tried to be nicer, she has said that she wants space, when I try to talk she shuts it down. I just cant understand if I would be the one to have done these things to her I would do anything she asks of me.

It has just been such a switch, less than two months ago we went out of town alone for our 7th anniversary. We held hands, made love, talked, shopped and did everything I thought we both Loved. Now she has just flipped the switch and wants nothing to do with me. I just thought being married in the temple and waiting till we were married would have its rewards and up till now I thought I have been blessed with so much.

Any help or ideas you can think of to help me, I would really appreciate it. I have only talked to the Bishop briefly and no one else, I know it would crush my family and I would not want everyone to think less of her. She has talked to her non member Sister and friend but only told them that we are having problems. Of course she has not told them about her verbal and mental infidelity. Please Help

[NeuroTypical]

That's a hard story to hear - sorry it's going on. But at the end of the day, you can only control you. She'll either leave you or not, will either cheat on you or not, will work on the marriage or not. If she'll agree to work on the marriage with you, I suggest counseling.

She tried to blame me that I would not talk to her or listen, but it was the complete opposite, I would always be the one trying to figure out our sexual problems.

I'm guessing that figuring this out would be key. If she'll agree to work on the marriage, I'd start here. With you working on you. She's yearning for something she says she doesn't see from you. Figure out what that is.

An alternative would be to dig in about how you've right and she's wrong. That would seem to be less likely to preserve your marriage.

[Windseeker]

Divorced (and remarried) dude here..

LM gave some great advice. I would also recommend Marriage Builders ® - Successful Marriage Advice.

I'm sorry you’re going thru this, I've been thru a similar experience and I had 4 kids at the time. The way she keeps her home, her sexual relationship with you, and her infatuation with this kid all are familiar with me.

Your trust has indeed been broken though. To protect yourself and your children I would recommend getting a key logger on your computer, track every email, website and online conversation. I would also recommend getting the reins on the finances. Do this out of love not spite.

As LM mentioned you can only change your own behavior and there is no way you can control another’s. Forgiveness, Patience, Gratitude and Love are your only allies in this. You need to embrace them and treat you wife and children with all the patience love and understanding you can muster. Be kind and patient to yourself as well. Learning to truly listen without judgment could also be a great help to you.

You said you are praying, reading, working out, take this as an opportunity to improve yourself and become the person who deserves great love and you will eventually be blessed with someone who truly loves you.

Edited July 18, 2013 by Windseeker
because I said so..

[Guest]

Oh no... your wife having sexual conversations with a 17-year-old... that is tough. There are psychological issues at play here. Counseling for her is what is needed. But this is a hard one if she's in denial of her problem.

My only advice is to try to see this as your marriage versus her psychological problem, not you versus her. Make sense? Your focus will need to be on her getting some help to get her psyche straightened out and not what she does for you. Your reward will come much much much later and you might have to go through hell first before you get there. But, as long as you can anchor her somehow (hopefully she realizes the trauma a broken home is going to do for the kids so then you can use the kids as the anchor), then you can try to get her to see that she has a lot of baggage that needs to get sorted out. The first step to healing is admitting one has a problem. Unfortunately, you can't do this for her, or force her into it. This has to be her decision and her realization.

Tough tough tough... Don't get dragged into the abyss. Hold on tight to the rod and hopefully the kids will hang on to you while your wife gets her act together.

Big hugs.

[mrmarklin]

The fact that your wife was sexually active at age 15 is a big tip off that there are major problems psychologically. She needs counselling, and you will too.

These types of problems are not easily overcome. Good luck.:)

[WaterJim]

Thanks so much for all of your advice and Words of Wisdom. It is nice to be able to talk to someone about all this. Ya the free agency is hard to deal with sometimes, I cant control her and dont want to. I thought I had a marriage that could withstand anything so I never saw this coming. She does not really even comment on celebrity guys and I dont see her checking out other men, I had so much trust in her.

Yes Anatess I really like this advice,"My only advice is to try to see this as your marriage versus her psychological problem, not you versus her." I will continue to focus on her and us and I hope she will take good council from others. I just hope and pray she wants to make things right, so far she has just distanced herself.

I have unconditional Love for her and will do what ever I need to do to help her, and to keep our covenants. If she wants to end things it will be her choice, I will stand by her till then. I also want to be able to tell the Lord when I face him that I did all I knew how to do.

Never thought I would need counselling but I know I do now.

[EarlJibbs]

If she was abused when she was younger by a relative, or by anyone, this can sometimes come out all of a sudden with force. When this happens, it changes everything. I am not saying this is what has happened. But I agree that counceling for her past is probably a good start.

Good luck Brother.

[ctrguy2013]

Counseling for her, but she has to want to help herself, and maybe part of that process for her will be a fresh start.

There are serious issues there that should have been brought up before you even got married serious red flags, like being sexually abused. This should be an example and testimony that you need to date for at least 1 yr prior to getting married, have frank and open discussions about your pasts have frank and open discussions about sex, and money.

hind sight is 20/20 but you are a young man with a promising life in front of you.

I am not saying that all hope is lost but you need to prepare yourself for that reality. she is the offender here call a good attorney.

[Martain]

Coming from a family whose parents and one set of grandparents divorced and remarried, I have vowed to break the chains of divorce. I have determined in advance that divorce is not an option in my marriage. Outside of counsel from the Lord or my spouse demanding it, I will not get divorced.

Although I hope to never go through such times as you are now going through, when I make that covenant it will be in health and sickness, poverty and wealth, joy and sorrow for all of time and all eternity.

The question that remains is, after all is said and done, will your wife love you? Will she repent? Will her heart return unto you? If you are patient, if you endure with long suffering, can you hope for the healing she and you both independently and as husband and wife need?

Surely the Lord knows the beginning from the end. He knows what she will do and whether she will repent. he knows whether patience, long suffering and love unfeigned will in the end win out over past wounds and current iniquity or whether marital and spiritual death is already certain.

Having born some very painful wounds inflicted by others myself, I speak from experience when I say there is balm in Gilead. A primary role of the Holy Ghost is the role of comforter. I can truthfully say that it is only by the virtue of this gift that I still stand here today. Continue to pour out your heart unto God and seek the sweet comfort of the Spirit of God to bathe, bandage and balm the wounds inflicted in your heart.

This being said, the necessity of forgiveness can not be understated. So long as either anger, hatred or resentment remain in your heart they will poison you. Such is the seriousness of not forgiving, so damaging to your soul are these poisons, that the Lord has said in D&C 64:9 Wherefore, I say unto you, that ye ought to forgive one another; for he that forgiveth not his brother his trespasses standeth condemned before the Lord; for there remaineth in him the greater sin.

We are not judge, we are not jury and vengeance does not belong unto us but unto the Lord. The command unto us is that no matter how deep the wounds, no matter how serious the offense, we are to forgive. To emphasize his point the Lord has also clearly taught that if we do not forgive, we are not forgiven of our sins (3 Nephi 13:14-15 & Matthew 6:14-15).

Now perhaps you are different from me in that you have never committed sin. Never had need to plead before God for forgiveness. Never had to repent in sackcloth and ashes. But I have and it was not until I was able to forgive others that I received the healing I sought.

So this is my advice to you. Forgive, forgive fully and freely and let the Lord remove all traces of bitterness and enmity towards your wife from your heart. In doing this you will be able to receive the healing and the comfort you need to endure the trials that are now upon you because of her iniquity.

Having done these things, you will then be able to ask the Lord in faith regarding wither you should stay or go and know that any answer you receive will not be clouded by the filters of bitterness anger or frustration. The decisions you will now make hold the eternity of your family in the balance. You must make sure that what ever counsel you receive is indeed from the Lord before you act on it for the Devil is real and does sent false revelation which mimics real revelation so closely as to deceive even the very elect.

My heart is pained for you. My prayer goes out for you. I'm sorry to hear the suffering this is causing you. Be true to the faith, turn unto the Lord our God and he will direct you for good and provide that comfort which for me and for you really does make all the difference.

Sincerely,

Brother M.

Edited August 1, 2013 by Martain

[WaterJim]

Thanks for the advice everyone and comments. I am tring to be strong still, patient, understanding, of course my mind constantly dwells on the issues but I have hope that it will get better.

She is about the same toward me, that is not wanting to be near me but at least she communicates with me. She has been to the councilor twice and she does like her so that gives me a little hope, I will get to meet with her next week.

I just hope we can make it through this trial, I too never thought of divorce as an option but if she decides she really does not Love me and does not think she ever will, what else will she want to do?

Ya just a few weeks ago we would be calling each other and always telling each other we love each other before we get off the phone. I would race home to see her and help with the boys, we were talking and planning to have another baby. I never saw this coming, I really hope it is just a low point in the marriage and that we can rise again.

[MarginOfError]

The fact that your wife was sexually active at age 15 is a big tip off that there are major problems psychologically. She needs counselling, and you will too.

These types of problems are not easily overcome. Good luck.:)

You do realize that 50% of Americans have had sex by the time they are 17, right?

[Windseeker]

You do realize that 50% of Americans have had sex by the time they are 17, right?

Only 6% of teens have had sex by age 15.

[MarginOfError]

Only 6% of teens have had sex by age 15.

Which is fine. But notice that the percentage jumps from 6% by age 15 to 50% by age 17. Teens are getting into the game extremely quickly at that age. Being sexually active at age 15 makes one an early adopter, not mentally unbalanced.

[Windseeker]

Which is fine. But notice that the percentage jumps from 6% by age 15 to 50% by age 17. Teens are getting into the game extremely quickly at that age. Being sexually active at age 15 makes one an early adopter, not mentally unbalanced.

It's 48% by age 17 actually. But really, what is your point?

The verbage is important, had sex at 15 and being sexually active since 15 should send up some warning flags that this person probably did not have the best support at home.

I think sex at a young age has more than just spiritual consequences. I believe that it also does harm to a young teens emotional health and well being. Not to mention social consequences. I think it is a warning sign. Do you realy believe that a person who becomes sexual active at such a young age won't have more challenges to overcome later in life? How would their view of sex differ from someone who remained chaste until marriage?

A Link Between Sexual Promiscuity and Depression in Teens | Psychology Today

Edited July 25, 2013 by Windseeker

[Suzie]

I'm very sorry to hear about your story. I'm surprised the police is not involved, how come?

This is more common than what people think and is usually related to a poor emotional development (on the part of your wife). The person in question usually appears as grounded and "normal" but the way they emotionally connect to others is like someone who is of a much younger age so when they meet someone like the 17 year old boy, they tend to focus on one aspect or characteristic that they like based on what they were looking for in a boy when they were teenagers themselves.

Before the sexual talk even emerge, there is a strong emotional bond created and they start seeing the teenager as someone of their own age. We call it "counter-transference" (also very common between therapists and clients). Basically the person idealizes one aspect of the teenager and "dreams" about it romantically and then "projects" that on to her own twisted reality.

There is no way on earth you could have seen this one coming because most of the time, it is not noticeable. There is hope, there is treatment yet she has to be willing to go through it all AND cut ALL communications with this boy.

She's not the only one who needs therapy. You also need it, the boy and his family also need it since in most situations, the victim has unfulfilled emotional needs.

[MarginOfError]

It's 48% by age 17 actually. But really, what is your point?

The verbage is important, had sex at 15 and being sexually active since 15 should send up some warning flags that this person probably did not have the best support at home.

I think sex at a young age has more than just spiritual consequences. I believe that it also does harm to a young teens emotional health and well being. Not to mention social consequences. I think it is a warning sign. Do you realy believe that a person who becomes sexual active at such a young age won't have more challenges to overcome later in life? How would their view of sex differ from someone who remained chaste until marriage?

A Link Between Sexual Promiscuity and Depression in Teens | Psychology Today

I think that sexual activity alone is a terrible marker of psychological health. It can be a piece of an overall picture, but to say, "this person was sexually active at 15, therefore she needs psychological help." is cuddling up to the absurd.

Also, it's very likely you've got your cause an effect reversed. Is sexual activity a cause of psychological problems, or is sexual activity a symptom of psychological problems. From the article you gave as a reference, "promiscuity may be symptomatic of depression. "

But again, we come back to that thing about it being a lousy indicator by itself. I would have to know more about a 15 year old to know if their sexual activity were a symptom of larger psychological issues, or if it were a part of the normal teenage exploratory process.

[Suzie]

I think sex at a young age has more than just spiritual consequences. I believe that it also does harm to a young teens emotional health and well being.

Talking from a pure psychological aspect (let's leave religion aside for a moment), how exactly a 15 year old is harmed emotionally by being sexually active? Psychology could argue on the contrary, that a teenager who did not experience sexual relations is at a disadvantage over their peers because they're not allowing the normal process of sexual exploration to take place during this critical time of their lives.

I am not condoning fornication, I am merely talking from a psychological point of view and trying to make a point that more information is needed and evaluated (besides sexual behavior) to assess someone's mental and emotional health.

[Guest]

Sex adds an aspect to a relationship that I don't believe most teenagers are ready for. Then, almost inevitably, the relationship ends. I can see how that would be damaging. Just having a serious non-sexual relationship at that age damaged me, and the way it ended affected future relationships, including my marriage at first.

[Windseeker]

I think that sexual activity alone is a terrible marker of psychological health. It can be a piece of an overall picture, but to say, "this person was sexually active at 15, therefore she needs psychological help." is cuddling up to the absurd.

Also, it's very likely you've got your cause an effect reversed. Is sexual activity a cause of psychological problems, or is sexual activity a symptom of psychological problems. From the article you gave as a reference, "promiscuity may be symptomatic of depression. "

But again, we come back to that thing about it being a lousy indicator by itself. I would have to know more about a 15 year old to know if their sexual activity were a symptom of larger psychological issues, or if it were a part of the normal teenage exploratory process.

Sexual activity whether that be promiscous sex at a young age may not be an indicator for psychological health but it would be foolish to ignore as a warning flag that there is an increased risk of psychological health issues.

[Windseeker]

Talking from a pure psychological aspect (let's leave religion aside for a moment), how exactly a 15 year old is harmed emotionally by being sexually active? Psychology could argue on the contrary, that a teenager who did not experience sexual relations is at a disadvantage over their peers because they're not allowing the normal process of sexual exploration to take place during this critical time of their lives.

I would say a psychologist who doesn't believe there are consequences from promiscuous sexual activity at 15 and views it as a disadvantage over their non-sexually active peers is one dimensional and probably shouldn't be counseling teens as they show a complete disregard for how sex has social and physical aspects that impact ones mental health and development.

I also think they have a great career ahead of them writing articles for any number of pop-culture teen magazines.

I am not condoning fornication, I am merely talking from a psychological point of view and trying to make a point that more information is needed and evaluated (besides sexual behavior) to assess someone's mental and emotional health.

Oh your not?

Did I miss something? Where do you make the point that more information is needed? Is it because some psychologist believe that sexual activity at 15 is healthy?

Edited July 25, 2013 by Windseeker

[WaterJim]

The police are not involved because the Mother caught the communication and stopped it before anything physical happened, so I am thankful that the mother followed the Holy Ghost. Ya another hard part is that they are in the ward so we all see each other every week. That means they see each other and I have to watch and wonder. She has agreed to not talk to him but I hope she is telling the truth because she has not been telling me the truth for a while.

Bishop cancelled the court and thinks that she can work things out by meeting with him and the councilor so I will trust his judgment. He is and has been a good Bishop.

This is more common than what people think and is usually related to a poor emotional development (on the part of your wife). The person in question usually appears as grounded and "normal" but the way they emotionally connect to others is like someone who is of a much younger age so when they meet someone like the 17 year old boy, they tend to focus on one aspect or characteristic that they like based on what they were looking for in a boy when they were teenagers themselves.

That is all correct from what I have seen.

Yes I will be meeting with a councilor next week for the first time so I hope that will help me.

[Suzie]

I would say a psychologist who doesn't believe there are consequences from promiscuous sexual activity at 15 and views it as a disadvantage over their non-sexually active peers is one dimensional and probably shouldn't be counseling teens as they show a complete disregard for how sex has social and physical aspects that impact ones mental health and development.

I didn't not say there are no consequences, I said that psychologists evaluate MORE than sexual behavior in order to diagnose emotional or mental harm of some sort.

Is it because some psychologist believe that sexual activity at 15 is healthy?

Yes, some psychologists believe that. It's actually quite a common belief.

[StrongMan]

What do YOU like, what do YOU want out of life? Go after it. I haven't heard anything about that except that you want her to be happy.

It is well-known that most women are attracted to confidence, physical strength--muscles, and a man who is good at something, knows where he is going in life, and is working toward those goals.

I sense too much concern about trying to please her, trying to do what she wants to make her happy. That's about as romantic to a woman as a guy asking her on a date and then asking her where she wants to go for dinner. Total turn-off.

Whether or not you end up with this woman long-term, you going after your own positive goals along these lines will be very helpful in you attracting the best quality woman you can. And, in the amazing event that you remain willing to keep her, it may help her feel attracted to you.

In the mean time, you can be clear about your boundaries. You will only stay married to a woman who is 100% faithful and is willing to evidence that with openness about her electronic and in-person communications. And, you have basic standards in which your wife is expected to pull her load.

Think of yourself as an amazing catch that any woman would be excited to have, rather than someone's servant who has to put up with all kinds of illegal abuse. Act with that kind of confidence.

And it is most likely illegal--perhaps a felony. I know two different people in prison for sending texts or e-mails about plans for sex to minors who never actually were convicted of having actual sex.

[StrongMan]

Oh--and in states like Utah, being aware of illegal abuse and not reporting it is also a crime equal to the level of abuse. If the abuse is a felony, NOT reporting it is also a felony. IF the abuse is a misdemeanor, NOT reporting it is also a misdemeanor.

I'm absolutely not a legal professional, not in the police or counselling, but I am trying to reinforce that what she's done is very serious. Especially if she's in some sort of church leadership position and she's interacting with him through church channels.

And--counselling doesn't solve everything. It's just a bunch of talk--which can sometimes be helpful. But, you still have to do all the actual hard work and make the hard choices.

[WaterJim]

Thanks Strong Man, I am sure you are right about the confidence thing. I lost my confidence and I know that is something Women Love and I have most likely making her like me even less by tring to please her. Not sure how to get my confidence back, hard to see my self as a catch right now?

I met with the councilor last night for the first time and yes it did feel good to get to talk about it with someone but ya I am not the one who made the mistakes or needs the fixing. I do hope my wife will get good guidance from it but up to this point there is no change.

I for sure want a wife that only wants me and is willing to share everything, without hiding things. I just have to hope she realizes how wrong and hurtful she has been and will want to go forward, by following the comandments. I want to feel Loved again.

I dont know about a felony by just sending talk of sex with each other on facebook, in Texas. I guess the Bishop and LDS family services person does not think so.