What are your expectations for your spouse?

[Guest]

Thanks for clarifying, Anatess, though I respectfully disagree. You state that HOW a problem is solved is irrelevant. I agree that if a problem is successfully solved, it doesn't matter how you got there. However, why cause a problem that you have the power to prevent? Throwing out items without consent that belong to your spouse causes problems - it doesn't solve problems - it's a poor reactionary decision that results in less than desirable consequences. Example, your husband either (1) has a fit, or (2) gives you the cold shoulder. None of which are productive in communication or solving problems/disagreements. Those are my thoughts.

You misunderstood me. My entire post has nothing to do with how I problem-solve. It is completely written ONLY to answer your question, "Do I have expectations of my husband?". I tried to tell you I don't have expectations. I pointed out that even when I threw away my husband's video games, I was not applying a consequence to a missed expectation but merely solving a problem. How the problem of the video games is solved is irrelevant ONLY in my trying to show you and Suzie the difference between 1.) applying a consequence to a missed expectation, and 2.) solving a problem. I was not trying to show you the merits of how I problem-solved... I was merely trying to show you that it was a problem I tried to solve not an expectation I tried to demand. Make sense?

Now, if we are going to change the topic and discuss, "best ways to solve a problem" then sure, I agree with you 100%. I tried to tell you that there are times that we solve problems by being stupid and sometimes that takes years for us to realize how stupid we are being and so it takes years for us to finally resolve the problem. We have lots of those events in our marriage.

[Guest]

On the original topic .... :)

We married in a civil service, he was inactive, I wasn't a member. My expectations were undefined other than what was in the marriage vows - honour, cherish, love. In that meant being faithful.

When me were sealed in the temple, there were a while new set of expectations, summed up in 2 words - temple worthy. Unfortunately, neither of us are there now, I have the desire to be, he doesn't.

So he is meeting the original expectations but not the church centred ones.

Where do you go from there!!!!! (rhetorical - we will continue on until he is "ready" to commit again, I can only pray that it happens before one of us heads beyond the veil)

Ahh! This one is a much better example than the video games incident!

Okay, let me try to explain again why I say I don't have expectations using this exact example from Talkative because we went through this as well.

When my husband and I got married, we said our vows just like a lot of people do getting married in the courthouse - we PROMISED to love each other in sickness and in health, for richer or for poorer, etc. etc. etc. We did the same thing at the temple with additionial vows. Those vows are Promises. Not Expectations. What's the difference? My promises are something I make to my husband (imagine an arrow coming from me pointing towards my husband). My expectations are promises my husband made that I hold my husband to (imagine an arrow coming from my husband pointing towards me). That's the difference. Now, I made the promise, my husband made the promise. But, I do not expect my husband to hold to that promise out of MY expectations that he is going to hold to it because of his vows. No. I simply and with all sincerity TRUST that he is going to hold to that promise because he wants to (otherwise, he wouldn't have made the promise in the first place).

Now, what happens when the Promise is broken? If it was an expectation, then pre-set consequences will follow. Because I'm making the expectations, then I apply the consequence. Most people have "deal-breakers" - where the missed expectation would end up in divorce. I don't have any of that because I don't have expectations. If my husband breaks a Promise (marital and temple vows), it wouldn't be because he simply wants to hurt our marriage and family. It would be because, he messed up and did not think about the effects to our marriage and family, or it would be because I left him no other choice because of my stupidity, or it would be because for some reason, he believes it is what is best for our marriage and family (maybe he lost his faith and stopped believing that the promises he made is what will give us eternal joy). So, I try to put our marriage back into alignment by trying to solve the problem in the best way I know how, trying to understand what caused him to break the promise and how to move forward from there. Whatever it is, I am his wife and that means I get to do whatever I need to do to get him all the way to celestial glory. And because I am LDS, it means, a requirement for my being his wife is to also qualify for celestial glory with him. The arrow never gets pointed from him to me, rather, the arrow ALWAYS points from me to him from my perspective.

Okay, is that a better explanation?

[Traveler]

I am sorry my dear Traveler but nobody, not even you, gets to go to the Celestial Kingdom because someone - not even God - expects you to. You get there because you want to and you chose to. Therefore, my temple marriage will not hinge on my expectations of my husband nor his expectations of me. It will hinge on the both of us wanting and choosing Celestial Glory.

Perhaps it is just semantics but why would you marry your husband (and him you) if there was not some expectation that he (both of you) wants and will choose the Celestial Kingdom?

Maybe if I asked the question this way: Why would you expect to marry in the temple if you had no expatiations that you and your husband (which is probably a really neat guy to catch a lady like you) would honor your marriage covenants?

Also it would seem to me that one would not expect to be exalted in the Celestial Kingdom if there was some (especially grievous) sin that remained un repented.

For me - I do have expatiations that neither my wife nor myself would ever break our marriage covenants but most certainly from your years together that if there was ever an infraction - I expect that whoever sinned would repent. I also would expect I would be quite sad should our marriage not be eternal. It is of great comfort for me in that I fully expect that should something happen to my dear wife that we will be together again in eternity.

I cannot comprehend a marriage without expectations. Sorry.

The Traveler

[pam]

For me - I do have expatiations that neither my wife nor myself would ever break our marriage covenants but most certainly from your years together that if there was ever an infraction -The Traveler

Did you really mean expatiations?

[Guest]

Perhaps it is just semantics but why would you marry your husband (and him you) if there was not some expectation that he (both of you) wants and will choose the Celestial Kingdom?

Maybe if I asked the question this way: Why would you expect to marry in the temple if you had no expatiations that you and your husband (which is probably a really neat guy to catch a lady like you) would honor your marriage covenants?

Also it would seem to me that one would not expect to be exalted in the Celestial Kingdom if there was some (especially grievous) sin that remained un repented.

For me - I do have expatiations that neither my wife nor myself would ever break our marriage covenants but most certainly from your years together that if there was ever an infraction - I expect that whoever sinned would repent. I also would expect I would be quite sad should our marriage not be eternal. It is of great comfort for me in that I fully expect that should something happen to my dear wife that we will be together again in eternity.

I cannot comprehend a marriage without expectations. Sorry.

The Traveler

Maybe it is semantics... When I see the word Expectations, I see my Semi-Annual Review at work - Does Not Meet, Meet, Exceeds. All of which comes with specific consequences or rewards handed down by the Boss who made the Expectations. If I do not meet my boss's expectations, he quits being my boss because he would fire me. So, there are times in my work that I do something I believe is stupid just to meet my boss's expectations so I won't get fired.

This is not my relationship with my husband because I don't hand down consequences or rewards depending on how my husband Does Not Meet, Meet, or Exceeds my expectations. My husband is my husband. He chooses his path according to what he wants not what I expect of him. Of course, I married him because what he wants (his basic principles) align with what I want (my basic principles). If it happens that his principles or my principles change so our paths don't align anymore, I don't quit being his wife. So, when there are times that I ask my husband to do something that he believes is stupid, he won't do it just to meet my expectations. My husband (if you meet my husband, you will notice this trait of his which is one of the main reasons I married the chap) does not do anything in our marriage unless he wants to (usually because he believes it is the right thing to do)... not even to please me.

P.S. on this one: There are times when my husband will do something he doesn't want to keep the peace... now, this is not done to "meet expectations"... this is done because there are times when he wants to deal with the fall-out of doing something he believes is wrong instead of deal with my nagging all day long. Sometime in the near future, when I'm more reasonable, we discuss what he should have done...

Edited July 24, 2013 by anatess

[Guest]

Totally semantics. You have expectations and when they're not met, you dole out consequences, whether it's an angry episode or throwing out his stuff. There are no consequences or reactions at all for that matter if there are no expectations. Rage cannot exist in the absence of expectations.

[Guest]

Totally semantics. You have expectations and when they're not met, you dole out consequences, whether it's an angry episode or throwing out his stuff. There are no consequences or reactions at all for that matter if there are no expectations. Rage cannot exist in the absence of expectations.

I still don't see this in the way you said it. Rage can exist just because at that very moment, I needed red skies instead of blue. Of course, I don't expect the sky to change color. I don't get angry because he did not meet my expectations. I get angry because what he wants does not align with what I want and I don't know how to resolve the two. Do I expect our wants to align at all times? No. He does what he wants, I do what I want and the end result is, if we both do what God wants, then it will align... if we don't, it won't and we're in for a rocky marriage that we have to figure out how to deal with. Does God expect either of us to do what he wants? I don't think so. We're going to do what we're going to do according to free agency and our judgement is based on that. I still don't see how expectations apply to the foundations of my marriage.

Maybe it is my "divorce is not an option" principle that changes my perspective on things.

P.S.

I'm thinking and thinking and thinking about this and I'm looking at covenants. When we make covenants, I guess you can say God expects us to follow it. And that's why he can hand down judgments in the end. I don't know how expectations can play in a scenario where judgment is not present. I'm not in a position to hand out judgments to my husband that carries specific punishment/reward. My role as a wife is simply to help him in his path to celestial glory in whatever manner I know to do.

Or is it that expectations don't have to have consequences?

Edited July 24, 2013 by anatess

[Guest]

Expectation is the root of all heartache. . . anger. . . disappointment. . . rage. There's something behind it. You don't just randomly want a red sky and get furious that it's not that way. Something made you think you need it- some expectation behind it- or you wouldn't care enough to have rage.

Or you're right and everyone else is wrong. That could be, too.

[Guest]

Expectation is the root of all heartache. . . anger. . . disappointment. . . rage. There's something behind it. You don't just randomly want a red sky and get furious that it's not that way. Something made you think you need it- some expectation behind it- or you wouldn't care enough to have rage.

Or you're right and everyone else is wrong. That could be, too.

Expectation is not the root of all heartache, Eowyn. One's failure to be content with one has is the root of all heartache.

The bolded line is a discussion ender. There is no point in discussing anything with you because you do not discuss things. You insult people.

And thank you my friends for letting me express what I believe. I'll give you Eowyn who thinks she is more superior because she can speak English.

I'm bowing out.

[Drpepper]

Expectations lead to disappointments

[pam]

I'm not understanding how this conversation got so heated. Everyone sees and views life differently. Everyone sees expectations or goals or promises differently. We interpret things differently. We all solve problems differently. That's what makes us unique.

Does that make one right and one wrong? Sometimes it's hard to explain in written word exactly what one means. Sometimes we can have 5 people interpret it entirely differently from the other.

To be honest, I don't think Anatess was trying to say she was right and everyone else is wrong. I think she was trying to explain how she feels about expectations and promises and goals within her own marriage. Is it right for everyone? Probably not because again we are all different and marriages are different.

So let's all take a deep breath and try to get along.

[bytor2112]

I expect my wife to love and support me and keep her self reasonably fit and attractive in appearance and to be a faithful and loyal companion and I think she expects the same of me.

[Suzie]

In the book "The 7 Habits of Highly Effective People" there is this quote:

"Treat a man as he is and he will remain as he is. Treat a man as he can and should be and

he will become as he can and should be."

[Bini]

Anatess, then we continue to misunderstand each other. The mere fact that you get PO'd with your husband is because you had certain expectations (or whatever you want to call them. Yes, we can blame it on semantics) that weren't met. THAT, was my point.

Traveller and Eowyn said it well.

Pam, I agree with this. We all handle situations differently. I believe I had even stated that, for the most part, it doesn't matter how a problem is successfully solved if it's solved successfully. Like how babies are born. Some are born, some are delivered - doesn't matter - the end result is a success because baby and mother are sound. What I was trying to make point of is that we REACT to things because we hold certain expectations and ideals and wants (or whatever you wish to call them). We don't just have a fit and throw out our spouse's things for no reason. That doesn't make any sense.