Walk A Mile In My Shoes....

[serapha]

Help me, here....

Now this is the picture, I am painting, and perhaps you can provide the answer.

I am standing in front of a group of fundamental, mainstream Christians, answering questions about the CoJCoLDS either in a church setting or a classroom...

Someone says... "but they believe they will become gods!"

and I say, "That is not a doctrine of the CoJCoLDS's."

"but they believe they will progress and become gods... their prophets teach this"

and I say, "But those statements made by the prophets are unofficial statements, and not those of the CoJCoLDS."

"But their teachings materials teach that they will become gods through works".

and I say, "but those teaching materials concerning exaltation to the position of godship that are used by the CoJCoLDS's are not stated in the doctrines, covenants, or disciplines of the CoJCoLDS."

"then why do they believe that they will become gods?"

and I say, "I don't know".

Now, if you were me, how would you answer these questions?

Before answering, please read....

Gospel Principles, page 302

"2. They will become gods."

1. "but they believe they will become gods!"

2. "but they believe they will progress and become gods... their prophets teach this"

3. "then why do they believe that they will become gods?"

Now, make me a better communicator.

~serapha~

[Rodney]

Answer is "YES" to all of the above, making question #3 non-applicable.

[AFDaw]

<<sigh>>

Do you believe the BoM if true?

Do you believe that Jospeh Smith was a true prophet of God?

How can you even understand and accept our complex princples when you can't even understand and accept our basic ones? Can you learn calculus without knowing math? No. This is the same. I'm sorry, but that requires a testimony that the BoM of true and that Jospeh Smith was a prophet. There's not point in discussing it, because you will NEVER understand it without a testimony. I promise that.

Now, do I believe you'll not discuss it? No...you'll go right on trying to. So let's clarify. If someone asks you that while you're teaching, I think the best thing for you to say is going straight to the end and saying "I don't know"

Flame away!

[serapha]

this post is edited to remove the reference to "rodney's" post.

~serapha~

[serapha]

**sigh**

There is nothing in the book of mormon that teaches exaltation to godship.

There is nothing in the official docrines that teach that principle.

Now, I understand "precepts" which is building upon a foundation, which is what you have indicated.

So, what is the foundation for the teaching of exaltation to godship?

~serapha~

[Spencer]

If baffles me how you can make statements like these,

There is nothing in the book of mormon that teaches exaltation to godship.

There is nothing in the official docrines that teach that principle.

And then ask a question like this,

So, what is the foundation for the teaching of exaltation to godship?

At one point you seem to sound like you know everything about our doctrine, but then wait, you have a question.

Maybe you should re-state your statements.

Spencer

[Spencer]

Also, if you have not read the book of mormon, how do you feel qualified to make such a statement? Id be very curious to know.

Spencer

[AFDaw]

Originally posted by serapha@Mar 23 2004, 07:10 AM

**sigh**

There is nothing in the book of mormon that teaches exaltation to godship.

There is nothing in the official docrines that teach that principle.

Now, I understand "precepts" which is building upon a foundation, which is what you have indicated.

So, what is the foundation for the teaching of exaltation to godship?

~serapha~

Would it matter if there was a reference in the BoM? You don't accept it to be true, so why worry what it teaches?

Also, people forget that everything we believe is not wrapped up tight in the Bible and the BoM. We believe in modern day revelation. But what would that matter? If I showed you a statement from a prophet, I doubt you would accept that either because it's not scripture based AND because you don't believe in our prophets.

Please listen to me...you can not understand this principle without a testimony of the gospel. I promise. Try as you might (which looks like you are) but you won't. That goes for members as well.

[Rodney]

this post is edited to remove the reference to "serapha's" post.

~Rodney~

[Guest Starsky]

Originally posted by AFDaw@Mar 23 2004, 07:05 AM

<<sigh>>

Do you believe the BoM if true?

Do you believe that Jospeh Smith was a true prophet of God?

How can you even understand and accept our complex princples when you can't even understand and accept our basic ones? Can you learn calculus without knowing math? No. This is the same. I'm sorry, but that requires a testimony that the BoM of true and that Jospeh Smith was a prophet. There's not point in discussing it, because you will NEVER understand it without a testimony. I promise that.

Now, do I believe you'll not discuss it? No...you'll go right on trying to. So let's clarify. If someone asks you that while you're teaching, I think the best thing for you to say is going straight to the end and saying "I don't know"

Flame away!

Absolutely excellent points!

But I am afraid they will go the way of all the other excellent points made to Serapha....the blind will not see.

[Guest Starsky]

Originally posted by serapha@Mar 23 2004, 07:10 AM

**sigh**

There is nothing in the book of mormon that teaches exaltation to godship.

There is nothing in the official docrines that teach that principle.

Now, I understand "precepts" which is building upon a foundation, which is what you have indicated.

So, what is the foundation for the teaching of exaltation to godship?

~serapha~

Well there are a lot of references...but you have to 'know' stuff to understand them....like Matthew 5:48.

[Guest Starsky]

Originally posted by AFDaw+Mar 23 2004, 07:24 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (AFDaw @ Mar 23 2004, 07:24 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--serapha@Mar 23 2004, 07:10 AM

**sigh**

There is nothing in the book of mormon that teaches exaltation to godship. 

There is nothing in the official docrines that teach that principle.

Now, I understand "precepts" which is building upon a foundation, which is what you have indicated.

So, what is the foundation for the teaching of exaltation to godship?

~serapha~

Would it matter if there was a reference in the BoM? You don't accept it to be true, so why worry what it teaches?

Also, people forget that everything we believe is not wrapped up tight in the Bible and the BoM. We believe in modern day revelation. But what would that matter? If I showed you a statement from a prophet, I doubt you would accept that either because it's not scripture based AND because you don't believe in our prophets.

Please listen to me...you can not understand this principle without a testimony of the gospel. I promise. Try as you might (which looks like you are) but you won't. That goes for members as well.

Again...excellent points...but again they will go unappreciated by Serapha....it is like trying to teach calculus to a baby.

[srm]

Originally posted by serapha@Mar 23 2004, 07:10 AM

**sigh**

There is nothing in the book of mormon that teaches exaltation to godship.

There is nothing in the official docrines that teach that principle.

Now, I understand "precepts" which is building upon a foundation, which is what you have indicated.

So, what is the foundation for the teaching of exaltation to godship?

~serapha~

D&C 76:58; 132:20, 37

[Guest Starsky]

Originally posted by serapha@Mar 23 2004, 07:10 AM

**sigh**

There is nothing in the book of mormon that teaches exaltation to godship.

There is nothing in the official docrines that teach that principle.

Now, I understand "precepts" which is building upon a foundation, which is what you have indicated.

So, what is the foundation for the teaching of exaltation to godship?

~serapha~

There is nothing but teaching of 'how' in the BofM....but how 'to do what'?

LOL....that is the mystery of God...given in a parable so that those who will not see...will not get...

gospel in a mystery...

[Maureen]

You could give these links a try:

Eternal Progression

Godhood

M.

[Guest Starsky]

1. Jesus Christ is One With the Almighty:

See John chapter 17 (next point)

We Can Become One With the Almighty:

The purpose of life is to become perfect like Jesus, to become one with him in the same way that he is one with God, and to sit on a throne with him.

Matthew 5:48 "Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect."

John 17:5,20-23 "And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was. ... Neither pray I for these [the apostles] alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word; That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me. And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one: I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me."

Revelation 3:21 "To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne."

The Almighty Represents the Council of Gods Spoken of in Genesis:

Chapter 1:1 "In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth."

The word translated here as "God" is, according to Strong's Hebrew lexicon:

"430 'elohiym {el-o-heem'}plural of 433 [433 is Elohim, meaning 'God'];

(plural)

1a) rulers, judges

1b) divine ones

1c) angels

1d) gods"

[Snow]

Originally posted by serapha@Mar 23 2004, 07:10 AM

There is nothing in the official docrines that teach that principle.

So, what is the foundation for the teaching of exaltation to godship?

~serapha~

Serapha,

Actually it is an official doctrine. If you are willing to have it, I would be willing to explain it.

While I am working on it, it would be helpful to know the angle of your question? Are you looking for:

-an explantion of the principle?

-scriptural support?

-evidence that the principle is official?

-a 2 for 1 blue plate special on the linguini with clams sauce?

Let me know.

[Spencer]

Mmmm clam sauce.

[Guest Starsky]

Where are we eating now? I need to know before I order...

[Tr2]

Now, if you were me, how would you answer these questions?

Humble myself, admit I have accepted extra-biblical teachings, and repent for idolatry. And accept my FREE gift of forgiveness. But that is what I would do.

[serapha]

Originally posted by serapha@Mar 23 2004, 07:10 AM

**sigh**

There is nothing in the book of mormon that teaches exaltation to godship. 

There is nothing in the official docrines that teach that principle.

Now, I understand "precepts" which is building upon a foundation, which is what you have indicated.

So, what is the foundation for the teaching of exaltation to godship?

~serapha~

D&C 76:58; 132:20, 37

thank you very much, actually, you have made my day.

~serapha~

[Guest Starsky]

Originally posted by Tr2@Mar 23 2004, 05:29 PM

Now, if you were me, how would you answer these questions?

Humble myself, admit I have accepted extra-biblical teachings, and repent for idolatry. And accept my FREE gift of forgiveness. But that is what I would do.

LOL....imagine repenting for seaching out truth in other places....than the bible.

Even Paul admonished us to seek what ever was pure, virtuous, of good report....etc...

[AFDaw]

Originally posted by Tr2@Mar 23 2004, 05:29 PM

Now, if you were me, how would you answer these questions?

Humble myself, admit I have accepted extra-biblical teachings, and repent for idolatry. And accept my FREE gift of forgiveness. But that is what I would do.

The Catholics also accept "extra-biblical teachings" do they not? At least as far as the Protestants believe. And don't the Catholics actually accuse the Protestants of removing part of the Bible that disagrees with their theology? Do you disagree with the Catholics as much as you disagree with us on this matter?

[Behunin]

Originally posted by serapha@Mar 23 2004, 08:10 AM

There is nothing in the book of mormon that teaches exaltation to godship. 

I thought you said you have never read the Book of Mormon. If you have never read it, how can you make this statement? Are you relying on other anti's beliefs?

If you don't believe the LDS church is right and true, then why waste your time arguing? So what if LDS people believe that in the eternities that we can all progress to be like our Father and his Son Jesus Christ. For those who can't accept this, or believe this, who cares? It really won't make any difference in your life anyway.

Just another anti mormon topic to try and cause contention.

[AFDaw]

Originally posted by Behunin+Mar 25 2004, 07:46 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Behunin @ Mar 25 2004, 07:46 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--serapha@Mar 23 2004, 08:10 AM

There is nothing in the book of mormon that teaches exaltation to godship.  

I thought you said you have never read the Book of Mormon. If you have never read it, how can you make this statement? Are you relying on other anti's beliefs?

If you don't believe the LDS church is right and true, then why waste your time arguing? So what if LDS people believe that in the eternities that we can all progress to be like our Father and his Son Jesus Christ. For those who can't accept this, or believe this, who cares? It really won't make any difference in your life anyway.

Just another anti mormon topic to try and cause contention.

I don't understand that either. Once again, it's all about the 11th Article of Faith. Too bad others don't abide by it.