Understanding The Spirit

[zshallr]

OUR SPIRIT AND THE HOLY GHOST

Hollywood would have us envision our spirits being a transparent form of our bodies that floats through the air like Casper the Friendly Ghost. They portray it as something we can waive our hands through or even a form of ourselves that can walk through walls. While on some level this may have a limited amount of truth I think we are also being misled. This is my personal effort to understand more clearly what my spirit is as well as the Holy Ghost and how they might interact. Let me first suggest an assignment or experiment.

EXPERIMENT: Find a mirror somewhere in your home and place yourself in a comfortable position in front of it. Find a clock or set a timer for 5 minutes (this experiment won’t take long). Now, look into that mirror but more specifically into your own eyes. Look deep into your eyes and search for the deepest part of your soul. Have a conversation with yourself and ask all the questions you want. Who am I? Where did I come from? What is my purpose? Why am I here? Go deep! My experience in doing this was somewhat uncomfortable and yet very thrilling at the same time. It was almost as if I didn’t know who I was. I was meeting a stranger but yet myself all at the same time. Perhaps this experience will be different for each person but please try this experiment before reading on.

RESULT: I will come to the point of this paper and spend the rest of the paper explaining why I have come to the conclusion I have. I believe that the thing we call our spirit is nothing more than the “INTELLIGENCE” within us. I’m not sure exactly what that even is but I view it as the thing that gives us awareness, conscious, reason the ability to discern etc. It’s the little “I AM” that you conversed with while looking into the mirror. It’s what gives you identity in the eternal worlds. Perhaps while you were staring into the mirror you could feel that “you” existed and that everything “out there” also existed but it was outside of you. I suppose I could go on but I will leave this idea with each of you to explore within your own discussions between that little “I AM”.

Let’s examine that preexistence story where it all began and which we hear so much about.

18 Howbeit that he made the greater star; as, also, if there be two spirits, and one shall be more INTELLIGENT than the other, yet these two SPIRITS, notwithstanding one is more INTELLIGENT THAN THE OTHER, have no beginning; they existed before, they shall have no end, they shall exist after, for they are gnolaum, or eternal. 19 And the Lord said unto me: These two facts do exist, that there are TWO SPIRITS, one being MORE INTELLIGENT THAT THE OTHER; there shall be ANOTHER MORE INTELLIGENT THAN THEY; I am the Lord thy God, I AM MORE INTELLIGENT THAN THEY ALL. 20 The Lord thy God sent his angel to deliver thee from the hands of the priest of Elkenah. 21 I dwell in the midst of them all; I now, therefore, have come down unto thee to declare unto thee the works which my hands have made, wherein MY WISDOM EXCELLETH THEM ALL, for I rule in the heavens above, and in the earth beneath, in all WISDOM and prudence, over all the INTELLIGENCES thine eyes have seen from the beginning; I came down in the beginning in the midst of all the INTELLIGENCES thou hast seen. 22 Now the Lord had shown unto me, Abraham, the INTELLIGENCES that were organized before the world was; and among all these there were many of the noble and great ones; 23 And God saw these SOULS that they were good, and he stood in the midst of them, and he said: These I will make my rulers; for he stood among those that were SPIRITS, and he saw that they were good; and he said unto me: Abraham, thou art one of them; thou wast chosen before thou wast born. (Abraham 3:18-23)

It seems that intelligences, souls and spirits are equivalent in this scripture. However did you notice that the spirits are gauged upon their INTELLIGENCE and from that the spirit is derived. Did you notice why God is God? Because he is more intelligent (Abr 3:21). Funny how Joseph Smith made similar comparisons.

I have another subject to dwell upon, which is calculated to exalt man; but it is impossible for me to say much on this subject. I shall therefore just touch upon it, for time will not permit me to say all. It is associated with the subject of the resurrection of the dead,—namely, the SOUL—the MIND of man—the immortal SPIRIT. (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, 352)

More scripture on the nature and existence of intelligence. 29 Man was also in the beginning with God. Intelligence, or the light of truth, was not created or made, neither indeed can be. 30 All truth is independent in that sphere in which God has placed it, to act for itself, as all intelligence also; otherwise there is no existence. (D&C 93:29-30) 30 All truth is independent in that sphere in which God has placed it, to act for itself, as all intelligence also; otherwise there is no existence. 31 Behold, here is the agency of man, and here is the condemnation of man; because that which was from the beginning is plainly manifest unto them, and they receive not the light (D&C 93:30-31). God made a tabernacle and put a spirit into it, and it became a living soul. (Refers to the old Bible.) How does it read in the Hebrew? It does not say in the Hebrew that God created the spirit of man. It says "God made man out of the earth and put into him Adam's spirit, and so became a living body." (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, 352) There never was a time when there were not spirits; for they are co-equal [co-eternal] with our Father in heaven. (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, 353) The mind or the intelligence which man possesses is co-equal with God himself. (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, 153) The mind we are possessed of, the being that is capable of thinking and reflecting, that is capable of acting according to the motives presented to it, that being which is immortal, which dwells within us, which is capable of reasoning from cause to effect, and which can comprehend, in some measure, the laws of its Creator, as well as trace them out as exhibited in universal nature, that being, which we call the Mind, existed before the tabernacle. (Orson Pratt, JD 18:297)

The glory of God is intelligence, or, in other words, light and truth (D&C 93:36). Reminds me of Moses 1:39 where God says that his work and GLORY is to bring to pass the immortality and eternal life of man or should I say intelligences? Could we rephrase it and say “this is my work and my glory to bring to pass the immortality and eternal life of intelligences”? That is his glory after all.

18 Whatever principle of intelligence we attain unto in this life, it will rise with us in the resurrection. 19 And if a person gains more knowledge and intelligence in this life through his diligence and obedience than another, he will have so much the advantage in the world to come. (D&C 130:18-19) The soul, spirit, mind or intelligence of man is eternal and this is what rises and stays with us in the resurrection.

7 Behold, you have not understood; you have supposed that I would give it unto you, when you took no thought save it was to ask me. 8 But, behold, I say unto you, that you must study it out in your MIND; THEN you must ask me if it be right, and if it is right I will cause that your bosom shall burn within you; therefore, you shall feel that it is right. 9 But if it be not right you shall have no such feelings, but you shall have a stupor of thought that shall cause you to forget the thing which is wrong; therefore, you cannot write that which is sacred save it be given you from me. (D&C 9:7-9)

The burning tingling sensations are byproducts of the new knowledge and only come after we’ve been enlightened. They serve as confirmations of the knowledge but are not to be mistaken as the Holy Ghost itself. The new knowledge and the conveyance of it is the Holy Ghost.

In the school of the prophets at Kirtland, Ohio we learn that one of the attributes to having the Holy Spirit is simply to possess the same mind as the Father. Again a focus on intelligence.

And he being the Only Begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth, and having overcome, received a fullness of the glory of the Father, possessing the same mind with the Father, which mind is the Holy Spirit, that bears record of the Father and the Son, and these three are one; or, in other words, these three constitute the great, matchless, governing and supreme, power over all things; by whom all things were created and made that were created and made, and these three constitute the Godhead, and are one; the Father and the Son possessing the same mind, the same wisdom, glory, power, and fullness—filling all in all; the Son being filled with the fullness of the mind, glory, and power; or, in other words, the spirit, glory, and power, of the Father, possessing all knowledge and glory, and the same kingdom, sitting at the right hand of power, in the express image and likeness of the Father, mediator for man, being filled with the fullness of the mind of the Father; or, in other words, the Spirit of the Father, which Spirit is shed forth upon all who believe on his name and keep his commandments; and all those who keep his commandments shall grow up from grace to grace, and become heirs of the heavenly kingdom, and joint heirs with Jesus Christ; possessing the same mind, being transformed into the same image or likeness, even the express image of him who fills all in all; being filled with the fullness of his glory, and become one in him, even as the Father, Son and Holy Spirit are one. (Lectures on Faith 5:2)

Notice the focus on the mind and intelligence? That’s where it begins! Again Joseph shows us the ONLY effect of the Holy Ghost.

There are two Comforters spoken of. One is the Holy Ghost, the same as given on the day of Pentecost, and that all Saints receive after faith, repentance, and baptism. This first Comforter or Holy Ghost has NO OTHER EFFECT THAN PUR INTELLIGENCE. It is more powerful in expanding the MIND, enlightening the UNDERSTANDING, and storing the INTELLECT with present KNOWLEDGE, of a man who is of the literal seed of Abraham, than one that is a Gentile, though it may not have half as much visible effect upon the body; for as the Holy Ghost falls upon one of the literal seed of Abraham, it is calm and serene; and his whole soul and body are only exercised by the pure spirit of iINTELLIGENCE; while the effect of the Holy Ghost upon a Gentile, is to purge out the old blood, and make him actually of the seed of Abraham. That man that has none of the blood of Abraham (naturally) must have a new creation by the Holy Ghost. In such a case, there may be more of a powerful effect upon the body, and visible to the eye, than upon an Israelite, while the Israelite at first might be far before the Gentile in pure INTELLIGENCE. (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, 149)

But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost , whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you. (JST John 14:26). Notice how this shows functions of the mind or the little “I AM” inside of you? It brings back knowledge you had at some prior time because you are “remembering”.

I want to reason more on the SPIRIT of man; for I am dwelling on the body and spirit of man—on the subject of the dead. I take my ring from my finger and liken it unto the MIND of man—the IMMORTAL PART, because it has no beginning. Suppose you cut it in two; then it has a beginning and an end; but join it again, and it continues one eternal round. So with the SPIRIT of man. As the Lord liveth, if it had a beginning, it will have an end. All the fools and learned and wise men from the beginning of creation, who say that the SPIRIT of man had a beginning, prove that it must have an end; and if that doctrine is true, then the doctrine of annihilation would be true. But if I am right, I might with boldness proclaim from the house-tops that God never had the power to create the SPIRIT of man at all. God himself could not create himself. INTELLIGENCE is eternal and exists upon a self-existent principle. IT IS A SPIRIT from age to age, and there is no creation about it. All the MINDS and SPIRITS that God ever sent into the world are susceptible of ENLARGEMENT. The first principles of man are self-existent with God. God himself, finding he was in the midst of SPIRITS and GLORY, because he was more INTELLIGENT, saw proper to institute laws whereby the rest could have a privilege to advance like himself. The relationship we have with God places us in a situation to ADVANCE IN KNOWLEDGE. He has power to institute laws to INSTRUCT THE WEAKER INTELLIGENCES, that they may be exalted with himself, so that they might have one glory upon another, and all that KNOWLEDGE, POWER, GLORY, and INTELLIGENCE, which is REQUISITE IN ORDER TO SAVE THEM in the world of spirits. (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, 354)

It’s amazing how the prophet Joseph, the ancient prophets, the Lord and the scriptures use the words intelligence, spirit, mind, power, glory, knowledge so interchangeably.

Hugh Nibley describes it this way.

But here is the contrast. If he is nothing, then how about being so close to God. "But now mine own eyes have beheld God; but not my natural, but my spiritual eyes, for my natural eyes could not have beheld;…" Are we trying to escape the issue here by calling it spiritual? No, the spiritual packs a greater energy than the physical. Spirit is a form of energy, just as faith, love and joy are forms of energy. It's a real and substantial thing. The spirit is one of the real forces. We'll say a form of energy and let it go at that. "…for I should have withered and died in his presence; but his glory was upon me; and I beheld his face, for I was transfigured before him." He was carried up and he was in the presence of God. He was on another level, in another energy zone, and he could do it. As he says here, "…not my natural, but my spiritual eyes, for my natural eyes could not have beheld;…I was transfigured before him" (verse 11). That's the transfiguration on the mountain. (Hugh Nibley, Ancient Documents and the Pearl of Great Price, 12)

And again…

New converts often get the idea that having accepted the gospel, they have arrived at adequate knowledge. Others say that to have a testimony is to have everything they have sought and that they have found thereby the kingdom of heaven; but their minds go right on working just the same, and if they don't keep on getting new and testable knowledge, they will assuredly embrace those "wild, enthusiastic notions" of the new converts in Kirtland. Note what a different procedure Joseph Smith prescribes: "This first Comforter or Holy Ghost has no other effect than pure intelligence [it is not a hot, emotional surge]. It is more powerful in expanding the mind, enlightening the understanding, and storing intellect with present knowledge, of a man who is of the literal seed of Abraham, than one that is a Gentile."

For as the Holy Ghost falls upon one of the literal seed of Abraham, it is calm and serene; and his whole soul and body are only exercised by the pure spirit of intelligence. . . . The Spirit of Revelation is in connection with these blessings. A person may profit by noticing the first intimation of the spirit of revelation; for instance, when you feel pure intelligence flowing into you, it may give you sudden strokes of ideas, . . . thus by learning the Spirit of God and understanding it, you may grow into the principle of revelation.

This is remarkably like the new therapeutic discipline called "biofeedback."

The emphasis is all on the continuous, conscientious, honest acquisition of knowledge. This admonition to sobriety and diligence goes along with the Prophet's outspoken recommendation of the Jews and their peculiar esteem and diligence for things of the mind.

If there is anything calculated to interest the mind of the Saints, to awaken in them the finest sensibilities and arouse them to enterprise and exertion, surely it is the great and precious promises made by our heavenly Father to the children of Abraham . . . and the dispersed of Judah . . . and inasmuch as you feel interested for the covenant people of the Lord, the God of their fathers shall bless you . . . He will endow you with power, wisdom, might and intelligence, and every qualification necessary; while your minds will expand wider and wider, until you can . . . contemplate the mighty acts of Jehovah in all their variety and glory.

In Israel today, there are great contests in which young people and old from all parts of the world display their knowledge of scripture and skill at music, science, or mathematics, in grueling competitions. This sort of thing tends to breed a race of insufferably arrogant, conceited little show-offs—and magnificent performers. They tend to be like the Jews of old, who "sought for things that they could not understand," ever "looking beyond the mark," and hence falling on their faces: "they must needs fall" (Jacob 4:14). Yet Joseph Smith commends their intellectual efforts as a corrective to the Latter-day Saints, who lean too far in the other direction, giving their young people and old awards for zeal alone, zeal without knowledge—for sitting in endless meetings, for dedicated conformity and unlimited capacity for suffering boredom. We think it more commendable to get up at five A.M. to write a bad book than to get up at nine o'clock to write a good one—that is pure zeal that tends to breed a race of insufferable, self-righteous prigs and barren minds. One has only to consider the present outpouring of "inspirational" books in the Church that bring little new in the way of knowledge: truisms and platitudes, kitsch, and cliches have become our everyday diet. The Prophet would never settle for that. "I advise all to go on to perfection, and search deeper and deeper into the mysteries of Godliness. . . . It has always been my province to dig up hidden mysteries—new things—for my hearers." It actually happens at the BYU, and that not rarely, that students come to a teacher, usually at the beginning of a term, with the sincere request that he refrain from teaching them anything new. They have no desire, they explain, to hear what they do not know already! I cannot imagine that happening at any other school, but maybe it does. Unless we go on to other new things, we are stifling our powers. (Hugh Nibley, Approaching Zion, 75-76)

Perhaps I will refine this over time or find more to support what I’ve felt but I’ve learned a great deal on the spirit within me and the Holy Ghost. I hope it will help you or at least start you down a road of question and answers with that little “I AM”.

[CrimsonKairos]

The real mystery is what gives each of us our distinct personality (aside from mortal influences like heredity).

Why do some of us obey and some of us stray? We know God didn't create our core consciousness, and He therefore didn't create our preferences, our inclinations, etc... How did we acquire them, and why?

p.s. those are rhetorical questions.

[MaidservantX]

I love this kind of stuff! Very good.

I am a daughter of my Father. I was begotten of him. My spiritual body is a tangible vessel for my intelligence, just as my physical body is a tangible vessel for my spirit (and intelligence). I existed in some form before I was begotten of my Father, but it remains true that a portion of my soul possesses seeds that come directly from being an offspring of that Holy Man; spiritual DNA if you will. That spiritual DNA instructs my spirit to unfold and develop to its full stature, just as my physical DNA instructs my physical body.

[CrimsonKairos]

I don't get the spiritual DNA/development metaphor. What spiritual stature is your spirit moving towards that it does not now attain to?

I thought our intelligence or consciousness (the little "I am" in all of us) makes the decisions that determine our eternal destiny.

[MaidservantX]

It's not a metaphor, actually. Well, the DNA terminology may be. But am I or am I not a literal offspring of my Father in heaven? If I am an offspring, then it is by literal seeds of some sort, that thereafter develop in a routine course.

I am aware that in our First Estate, so termed, I reached (all reached) what we call an adult stature of spirit.

However, are you telling me that there is not an influence of exansion or destruction that mortal, physical life, the acts and consequences of acts done in the body have upon the spirit? I think there is that influence, and I think that my spirit, or at least the power of the spirit, will continue to grow. Only of course, at this point, the spirit and body are fused.

In any case, the development I referred to was just as well accomplished previous to this life. I just meant that I really am his daughter. I didn't like what I thought I 'heard' zshallr saying -- that we aren't his children.

And it would be nice if our intelligence made all our decisions, but I think (arguably) that it doesn't! lol

I guess we don't all have to agree what the heck all these inner workings and 'moving parts' of the soul are.

[CrimsonKairos]

Gotcha.

Yes, we are the literal offspring of God, though the process by which we were spiritually begotten may not be a perfect mirror of the process by which mortals bring new life into the world (i.e. intercourse and gestation). It may be, but then again I'm sure there are processes available to God that we can't conceive of (no pun intended, lol).

[Traveler]

Our spirit has to ability to act or react with other spirits of which there are two kinds. The holy spirit or a unclean spirit. The question I would ask is: Can our spirit act or react outside of the influences of one of those two kinds of spirits?

Are our deeds related to the spirit to which we list to obey?

The Traveler

[Guest Username-Removed]

When I think of the spirit, I do think of the third member of the godhead, but I also think of all those righteous people that have died. I have come to understand that they still have their passions, which is how we'll recognize them when we enter the spirit world. I think that the work of righteous spirits in paradise includes helping us. We often hear of the hosts of heaven throughout the scriptures. And we know that spirits did visit Joseph Smith. I believe they visit us, and help us as well - whether we give them credence or not.

To those that have lost all of their friends, all of their family, I say, do not lose your faith too. Your faith is you, and nobody else. Find a way to keep that. For if you do, I promise you that the host of heaven will bind you up, support you, and bless you in ways that you have never imagined. And if you do what is right, keep the commandments; be faithful to that which you know is true, you will be able to know for yourself the miracles of support that which you never thought possible.

I've had a few moments of despair in my life. In one of those moments, I had a dream. It was incredible! I was over my home state of Oregon, just hanging way up in mid air. I knew it was a dream, and I took in all in because I didn't want to forget anything I saw! I didn't fear falling for some reason, even though it appeared that I was at least 20,000 feet in the air. I could see Mount Hood and the Pacific Ocean. Then, my body turned around and I was looking up at the Sun. An intense amount of knowledge was given to me. I remember vividly thinking that the information I received and how it would be useful to everyone, if they only knew. Then I thought to myself, that I might not remember when I woke up. When I did wake up, all I was left with was the idea that the separation between heaven and earth, between God and Man, between Knowledge and ignorance, was not as distant as it was thought to be; although I did not remember how this was accomplished.

Over the years I have come to know that a person can ask just about anything, and God will answer, if not directly by him, someone with the knowledge that has lived on this earth and is performing their calling in the spirit world. We owe so much to them! This is one of the reasons I want so much to have my temple recommend. I've got some paying back to do !

[a-train]

'I believe that the thing we call our spirit is nothing more than the “INTELLIGENCE” within us.'

If I understand correctly, this is the assertion of the OP in a nutshell. What exactly does this mean? Does this claim man has no spirit body made of material which is so fine and pure that it cannot be sensed by the mortal tabernacle? If this is meant to disavow the 'hollywood' notion of an apparition, just what does it specifically challenge?

-a-train

[inthearmsofsleep]

I didn't read your entire post, because it was rather lengthy, but I read the mirror experiment part. Sometimes I can't bear looking in the mirror for too long because I feel like I'm going to lose my mind, seeing something/somebody that isn't "me". It blows my mind that everything i've ever consciously experienced has been within the bounds of this physical body... and there's no running from it. Every one of us is a stranger to ourselves, it's very unusual.

[LukeAir2006]

My physical body was begotten by my earthly parents, male and female, and resulted from the fusion of a sperm and an egg. Those living components existed before but were joined together to create a new physical being, Me!

My spiritual body was created by my Heavenly parents, Male and Female, and resulted from the fusion of intelligences. Those spiritual beings existed before but were joined together to create a new spiritual being, Me!

"that which is spiritual being in the likeness of that which is temporal; and that which is temporal in the likeness of that which is spiritual; the spirit of man in the likeness of his person" (D&C 77:2)

[CrimsonKairos]

If our physical body was created by the joining together of two physical bodies (parents), wouldn't our spiritual body be created by the joining together of two spiritual bodies (as opposed to intelligences)?

Note: I'm not talking about spiritual sex...I don't know whether heavenly parents are limited to the methods of procreation and gestation that mortals are. If they are, fine; if not, fine.

[LukeAir2006]

My point was the comparison of the fusion of sperm and egg with the fusion of intelligences. The distinction was celestial parenting with earthly parenting. Something along the lines of blood flows through the veins of mortal physical bodies but spirit flows through the veins of celestial physical bodies.

Oh, our Heavenly parents do have spirit bodies, clothed in glorified physical bodies.

Is this a case of: I say tomato, but you say tomato.

[CrimsonKairos]

Asparagus, actually. B)

[Dr T]

[Outshined]

Asparagus, actually. B)