division/inclusion

[prisonchaplain]

This is so frustrating. Here's what I see.

Officer Mirkwood jokes about using a taser to deal with those who anger him. The next poster questions what kind of officer would joke that way. Then the next mentions that 500 people have died by tasers, so joking about them is not funny.

The pushback is that it appeared to some (me included) that Mirkwood was being accused wrongly of joking about the pain and death that tasers can cause. I believve one poster even said it was like joking about suicide. Nobody has to laugh at a joke, but Mirkwood was not making light of pain, death or suicide--he was joking about an over-the-top response to detractors. It was pretty obvious to me that he would not actually use a taser on someone just for irritating him.

Now more pushback about who actually said what, and what was meant, and who meant it.

Yikes! Inclusion and exclusion indeed.

[Guest]

This is so frustrating. Here's what I see.

Officer Mirkwood jokes about using a taser to deal with those who anger him. The next poster questions what kind of officer would joke that way. Then the next mentions that 500 people have died by tasers, so joking about them is not funny.

The pushback is that it appeared to some (me included) that Mirkwood was being accused wrongly of joking about the pain and death that tasers can cause. I believve one poster even said it was like joking about suicide. Nobody has to laugh at a joke, but Mirkwood was not making light of pain, death or suicide--he was joking about an over-the-top response to detractors. It was pretty obvious to me that he would not actually use a taser on someone just for irritating him.

Now more pushback about who actually said what, and what was meant, and who meant it.

Yikes! Inclusion and exclusion indeed.

There is a lesson here. A very important one.

[Praetorian_Brow]

I had no intention of sparking anything or defaming someones character. It was an observation that occurred to me but I suppose this thread is an obvious illustration of the original poster's intent and how quickly threads can lose context.

I honestly don't think a consensus or spirit of total cooperation can be attained on a forum though, as its very purpose is to foster debate and examine issues, which leads to a protracted opinionated war of attrition for those who believe they have a vested interest. Of course, we should maintain civility and my sarcasm and dead pan humour does not communicate well, but even I can allow the satisfaction of someone having the last word.

[Maureen]

...In this particular situation where we have a guy who chose to use police/tasers as a joke when the topic is neither about cops nor tasers, siting there in judgement of his taste in jokes led to divisiveness. This would have been the perfect time to sit in the side of grace than sit in the side of judgement.

Or people can see the discussion as one where there are those that think the joke is funny and there are those that don't. With no one judging the person who supplied the joke, but just the joke itself.

M.

[Meerkatarmy]

I think healthy debate is good and as long as it doesn't get to the point where personal insults are being made it is fine.

My experience of this site is if you are different or don't think the way extremly conservitive Mormons think it gets very testy very quickly. I have experience a couple of people on here who are lovley open minded welcoming folk.

May be I am just naive in thinking that I will fit in and find people like me in the LDS church

Edited March 11, 2014 by estradling75
pending mod review

[Wingnut]

My experience of this site is if you are different or don't think the way extremly conservitive Mormons think it gets very testy very quickly.

Being one of those people, I very much agree.

Edited March 11, 2014 by estradling75
edit the post edit the quote

[Meerkatarmy]

Perhaps but reading some of the threads on here infurates me "if you dress like a prostitute expect to get raped". O my dordi have we traveled back to the 1800's? Rapists cause rape not someones clothes. I just find sometimes this site is here top build and strengthen the patriarchy

[Meerkatarmy]

"can I expect my husband to do chores when he gets home" how is that even a question? If he lives in the house, wants to eat and has contributed to the birth of children heck yeah he should help!

[Guest]

Or people can see the discussion as one where there are those that think the joke is funny and there are those that don't. With no one judging the person who supplied the joke, but just the joke itself.

M.

Sure. If that was what happened. But, unfortunately, it wasn't.

[Guest]

Perhaps but reading some of the threads on here infurates me "if you dress like a prostitute expect to get raped". O my dordi have we traveled back to the 1800's? Rapists cause rape not someones clothes. I just find sometimes this site is here top build and strengthen the patriarchy

"can I expect my husband to do chores when he gets home" how is that even a question? If he lives in the house, wants to eat and has contributed to the birth of children heck yeah he should help!

And all these discussions end up in tension because one side refuses to see the perspective from the other side. They all sit in their corners throwing blow darts at each other.

In both of these discussions - both sides have merit. You may not see the merit on the other side from your own corner but, it is there.

So, a discussion is pointless if its purpose is merely to bludgeon the other to one's way of thinking.

When I persist on a discussion (same when arguing with my husband) - it is not because I want you to agree with me. It is that I want you to understand what you're disagreeing with. Or I don't understand you, so I'm questioning your position so I can understand where you are coming from. Because if you're sounding illogical to me, I can't understand what you're saying (even if you were completely logical but I just can't follow the logic).

I've had several of these discussions with JAG - we usually are on the same side of an issue, so when we stand on opposite sides, it makes me suspect something is wrong with our understanding... and JAG is very eloquent, so it can't be linguistic issues (which is usually where I get tripped up in discussions). So, on the occassions that we disagree, it's a long drawn out process which may seem like it is very divisive, but it is not. At least, not on my part, because my purpose is to understand where JAG is coming from - or to make JAG understand where I'm coming from. No agreement necessary.

Edited March 11, 2014 by anatess

[Maureen]

Sure. If that was what happened. But, unfortunately, it wasn't.

Really, which posts make you think that?

M.

[Sali]

May be I am just naive in thinking that I will fit in and find people like me in the LDS church

Meerkatarmy, you definitely will fit and find people just like you in the LDS church. Yes there are conservative Mormons and liberal Mormons and those that fit in inbetween. There is room for everyone. :)

[Guest]

Really, which posts make you think that?

M.

It took on the flavor of questioning what kind of cop Mirkwood is to find tasering joke worthy. Hence, all posts defending Mirkwood took on the position of defending his person, and not even tasering itself, instead of his joke. You can see that clearly. No need to put people on the hotspot by quoting posts.

Edited March 11, 2014 by anatess

[Meerkatarmy]

My friend is a police offer and has joked about locking up all the gingers, she is a very fair woman so I doubt she actually does go round collecting up the red headed folk. Some times people make light of things that are serious it doesn't mean they think they are a joke.

[Wingnut]

Some times people make light of things that are serious it doesn't mean they think they are a joke.

Sometimes when people make light of things, it's because the in and out of their everyday is so heavy that they need the levity. My sister is an ICU nurse, and she shared this on her Facebook page about two months ago (she didn't write it): A Letter to the Family of My ICU Patient | Savor the Essence of Life

[Maureen]

It took on the flavor of questioning what kind of cop Mirkwood is to find tasering joke worthy.

I'm going to have to disagree with this. I made no judgement on mirkwood and praetorian explained his intent and the other poster just stated that she didn't care for such jokes either; no judgement against the person.

Hence, all posts defending Mirkwood took on the position of defending his person, and not even tasering itself, instead of his joke. You can see that clearly.

I can see that people who did not mind the joke, may have thought mirkwood was being picked on and defended him and tasering, but just because you may perceive it so, doesn't mean it is.

No need to put people on the hotspot by quoting posts.

I was curious which posts you thought were judging mirkwood since I didn't read any like that.

So anatess, what's the difference between perceived judgement against mirkwood and perceived judgement against those who are thought to be doing the judging?

M.

[mirkwood]

A Letter to the Family of My ICU Patient | Savor the Essence of Life

That was fantastic. Thanks for sharing it.

I could write a letter like that. It might say something like this: If I seem disinterested in your vehicle that was vandalized, maybe it's because the last call I was on involved the death of a infant. I was first on scene and did CPR on this couple's 17 month old baby. I did it so long both my hands cramped and they were in so much pain I couldn't continue. The infant died. Did I mention I have an 18 month old at home myself? Did I forget to mention the SIDS death I handled yesterday? Or maybe I seem disinterested in the burglary of your house. That could be because my last call was chasing a parole fugitive in a stolen car after he shot at the officers who originally stopped him. Then he started shooting at me while I was chasing him on the freeway. You probably are unaware that tomorrow at church I will be giving my infant a name and a blessing and I am still processing the fact that those bullets fired at me could have ended any possibility of blessing my child, or seeing him grow up.

All of that above was real...and the list goes on and on...

Rounding up all the gingers...that is funny. I guess some of you can get upset over that one too. BTW...my mom is a ginger.

Public safety and emergency services personnel have odd senses of humor. It is what it is.

Yes Maureen, you came across as Anatess stated.

[mirkwood]

I forgot to add: apparently volunteering makes a difference. I have volunteered to be tasered, pepper sprayed, shot with the fully automatic pepper ball gun, shot with simunitions (paint filled bullets fired from firearms for training) and the electric shocker used in our firearms video simulator (you get zapped if you get shot).

I did pass on being in the bite suit for the canine unit...I have my limits.

A suspect volunteers by failing to comply.

[Maureen]

...Yes Maureen, you came across as Anatess stated.

It was not my intention. You'd think with all the things you've volunteered for you'd have thicker skin. :)

How do you like my joke?

M.

[mirkwood]

I chuckled when I got a bloody nose arresting this ginger too.

[Guest]

So anatess, what's the difference between perceived judgement against mirkwood and perceived judgement against those who are thought to be doing the judging?

M.

Now, here is the lesson that needed to be taken from PC's post.

My post was intended to stop the divide. Your post was to widen the divide - that post you wrote in response to mine.

THERE is the difference. It doesn't matter who judged who, who started what, who said this and who said that. If you felt that your post was perceived wrong, then you figure out a way to bridge the misunderstanding instead of being more antagonistic. The last few posts above this one is what should have happened.

And this is all I'm going to say about that. I think the OP has been very well proven on this here thread.

[Maureen]

Now, here is the lesson that needed to be taken from PC's post.

My post was intended to stop the divide.

But you see I did not perceive your post that way. I perceived it as someone saying, "you should have reacted this way instead of the way you did react". And I did not agree with that, because if I have an opinion on something I will voice it.

Your post was to widen the divide - that post you wrote in response to mine.

My post was trying in a subtle way to ask you why you weren't practicing what you were preaching.

THERE is the difference. It doesn't matter who judged who, who started what, who said this and who said that. If you felt that your post was perceived wrong, then you figure out a way to bridge the misunderstanding instead of being more antagonistic.

I thought I had since I put it out there that I was not attacking the joker but the joke. It's up to you to believe I'm sincere instead of taking offense when none was given.

The last few posts above this one is what should have happened.

This remark is quite interesting to me. In a way it makes me chuckle. :)

M.

[applepansy]

Public safety and emergency services personnel have odd senses of humor. It is what it is.

Nurses and Doctors have an odd sense of humor too. Dinner table talk usually takes some getting used to. :)

[applepansy]

But you see I did not perceive your post that way. I perceived it as someone saying, "you should have reacted this way instead of the way you did react". And I did not agree with that, because if I have an opinion on something I will voice it.

My post was trying in a subtle way to ask you why you weren't practicing what you were preaching.

I thought I had since I put it out there that I was not attacking the joker but the joke. It's up to you to believe I'm sincere instead of taking offense when none was given.

This remark is quite interesting to me. In a way it makes me chuckle. :)

M.

Maureen (((hugs))) Nobody is holding a grudge here. Can we let it go?

[Guest]

I thought I had since I put it out there that I was not attacking the joker but the joke. It's up to you to believe I'm sincere instead of taking offense when none was given.

And this is the main reason why you and I are not understanding each other. You are taking my posts as addressed to you personally when I have mentioned it many times that my post was not quoted to a specific person for a reason. The post was addressed to the ENTIRE SITUATION not an INDIVIDUAL POSTER. It has no bearing on your sincerity or any non-intended offenses or whether you are pro-taser or anti-taser. It has bearing on how the situation unfolded and the divisiveness that resulted from it - a perfect demo for the OP.