Jesus And Lucifer...

[a-train]

The anti's fly the 'MORMON'S BELIEVE SATAN IS JESUS'S BROTHER!!!' banner just for it's shocking nature.

On the surface of the statement, it would suggest that Christ was NOT the only begotten. It would also suggest the LDS grant Satan some sort of different status than do traditional Christians. Even further, it would present the question of the eternal nature of Christ: 'If Satan is a non-eternal creation of God and Jesus is his brother, does that make Jesus a non-eternal creation also?' It would present many problems.

The whole statement is completely misleading and the antis know it. What they also know is that although LDS believe the Saviour to be the Only Begotten Son of God, that He is not only eternal but He is the Great I Am, and also that Satan's power and status is actually lower than man's which is pale in comparison to that of the Saviour, the LDS do concede that the Satan and Jesus are, or at least were, brothers in one sense.

Now the antis realize that those who have little familiarity with our doctrine will simply ask: 'Do you guys believe Satan and Jesus are brothers?' Then if the LDS says: 'Yes', they will immediately take to the assumptions I mentioned. If the LDS says: 'No', then they will wonder why it seems so apparent that LDS leaders have said things that would indicate the brotherly relationship of Jesus and the Devil and then wonder if they know more about Mormonism than their LDS friend or if their friend is honest.

A similar question is raised by the antis about whether God has a body or not. They point to verses that say God is spirit and say that Joseph Smith spoke blasphemy when he held that God has a 'body of flesh and bones'. For Christians who voice this arguement, the LDS can easily confound them with the fact that Jesus is God and indeed has a body. LDS have no trouble acknowledging that in one sense God is a Spirit, in another sense, God is corporeal. They therefore see no contradiction between the two assertions.

The brotherly relationship of Jesus and Satan is the same. There is a sense in which they are brothers, but this specific sense places no burden on the assertion that Jesus is the Only Begotten, Eternal, the Great Jehovah, who created heaven and earth and holds them in their heavenly movements today and Satan is a depraved spirit, deep in subjection and subordinance to Christ, with little more power than suggestion or temptation, which power the LORD has given him and will take away again just as soon as He pleases.

GOD BLESS

-a-train

[Guest Yediyd]

<div class='quotemain'>

Can you give me more information about that Traveler. A reference and the phrase/words in the Hebrew that I can look up please.

Thank you

the Bible refers to Satan as a cherub that covers. The only reference in scripture to a covering cherub is in Exodus 25:20. In that same verse the KJV is translated as "their faces shall look one to another". The literal translation of the Hebrew from which that translation is taken should read "and the two brothers shall face each other". One on the right side of the mercy seat of G-d and one on the left side.

Let me know when you have had enough meat and I'll be quiet about this pearl of exceptional value that few of many Christian dominations will except from ancient original scripture manuscripts.

And a question for Dr T. Where in scripture does it tell us that a cherub is an angel?

The Traveler

hey Traveler...do you know Hebrew? Where do you get these original translations? I have a Tanach at home, but am still learning how to read it. Very interested in your responce.

Yediyd

[CrimsonKairos]

You can go here and type in any English word that appears in the KJV, then click "Search." It will bring up every instance of that word in the Bible, with a link to Strong's Concordance original Hebrew definition of the word. You have to click on the numbers to the right and above each word.

As for Traveler's point, I agree that there may be a connection between Satan and the cherubim on the Ark of the Testimonies.

However, I'm not sure I agree about the translation of "the two brothers shall face each other." The Hebrew word translated as "faces" in Ex. 25:20 is paneem which literally refers to the face of God, but in this context merely refers to more than one face.

To make a masculine Hebrew word plural, you add "eem" to the end, hence paneem means more than one. Another famous example is Elohim (pronounced Ale-oh-heem). El means god, the -him on the end makes it plural, hence "gods."

p.s. To make a feminine Hebrew word plural, you add "ot" to the end (pronounced "oat"). Hence yalidah=girl, and yal'dot=girls.

[Guest Yediyd]

You can go here and type in any English word that appears in the KJV, then click "Search." It will bring up every instance of that word in the Bible, with a link to Strong's Concordance original Hebrew definition of the word. You have to click on the numbers to the right and above each word.

As for Traveler's point, I agree that there may be a connection between Satan and the cherubim on the Ark of the Testimonies.

However, I'm not sure I agree about the translation of "the two brothers shall face each other." The Hebrew word translated as "faces" in Ex. 25:20 is paneem which literally refers to the face of God, but in this context merely refers to more than one face.

To make a masculine Hebrew word plural, you add "eem" to the end, hence paneem means more than one. Another famous example is Elohim (pronounced Ale-oh-heem). El means god, the -him on the end makes it plural, hence "gods."

p.s. To make a feminine Hebrew word plural, you add "ot" to the end (pronounced "oat"). Hence yalidah=girl, and yal'dot=girls.

Thank you SO much for those links! they are going to be SO helpful to me!!!!!!!!!!!!

[CrimsonKairos]

And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall set you free. B)

I love the clarity and original sense of the Bible that comes from appealing to the Hebrew words and not a translation. I'm glad you'll find the link helpful. Of course you can always buy a paper copy of Stong's Concordance (which I have), but if you're online the link I gave can be a huge help.

[Guest Yediyd]

And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall set you free. B)

I love the clarity and original sense of the Bible that comes from appealing to the Hebrew words and not a translation. I'm glad you'll find the link helpful. Of course you can always buy a paper copy of Stong's Concordance (which I have), but if you're online the link I gave can be a huge help.

I have a paper copy...but this is SO much cooler! I am trying to learn Hebrew on my own. I love the Hebrew language! Thanks again!

And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall set you free. B)

I love the clarity and original sense of the Bible that comes from appealing to the Hebrew words and not a translation. I'm glad you'll find the link helpful. Of course you can always buy a paper copy of Stong's Concordance (which I have), but if you're online the link I gave can be a huge help.

CK, how do you put those links under the words that you type? I think that is so neet! Still learning my way around computers.

[tiancum]

Lucifer means "Son of the Morning" or "Shining One."

He's not called Lucifer anymore because he no longer shines. That's all. He's still our spirit brother. His rebellion in heaven didn't undo his spirit birth.

I was just talking about his birthright. Notice no one ever calls him our brother any more. The only person that has called him a "son of god" since he fell, is him when he forces others to worship him. (except for people who were innocent and knew no better)

I believe it is impossible to be a "son of god" and a "Son of perdition". Sure it might be semantics, but one can give up their royal birthright.

We'll just have to agree to disagree Crimson.

[CrimsonKairos]

Tiancum, Satan isn't a son of perdition...he is perdition.

So you think his rebellion in heaven reversed his spiritual birth so that God is no longer the Father of his spirit? Just because Satan is our spiritual brother doesn't mean he's good, and you don't have to be good to be spiritual siblings. It's a false either/or.

Yediyd, here's how to make hyperlinks out of words. You sandwich your word in bracketed inserts. Let's say you want to make a link so that when people click on the word "talk" they go to "ldstalk.com"

First, you type a forward bracket, [, then you type "url=" (without the quotation marks), then you paste the url to the website, which in this case would be "ldstalk.com" (without the quotation marks), and then you type a backwards bracket, ], then the word you want to become a link which in this example is "talk" (without the quotation marks), then type another forward bracket, [, then a forward slash, /, then "url" (without the quotation marks), then a backwards bracket, ]. Voila. So here's what it'd look like in our example:

talk[/url

I left off the last backwards bracket so you could see the raw text. If I had put the backwards bracket after the [/url it would have made the link active and you wouldn't have been able to see what I typed to make the hyperlink.

So make sure you end your command with a backwards bracket. :)

By the way, is 'Yediyd' Hebrew? Sounds like a Hebrew word. Tov m'od! B)

[tiancum]

Tiancum, Satan isn't a son of perdition...he is perdition.

So you think his rebellion in heaven reversed his spiritual birth so that God is no longer the Father of his spirit? Just because Satan is our spiritual brother doesn't mean he's good, and you don't have to be good to be spiritual siblings. It's a false either/or.

I do not understand the tone of your post. Are you being confrontational?

I was merely stating that he gave up his birthright. According to the gospel principles quote,

Every person who was ever born on earth was our spirit brother or sister in heaven.

I said nothing of reversing anything. Lol, i think you knew that. would it help if I said, "in a sense", he is not our brother"?

I was just stating that he gave up his royal birthright. He no longer can receive a glory, a gift to ALL sons of god who do not give up their royal birthright. He no longer has the freedom to choose between right and wrong, he is, as you correctly stated, "perdition".

FYI, You will find that there is not one quote from a prophet stating that he is still our brother, after he was cast down. I won't even get into the scriptures that mention "becoming" sons of God.

I understand that you don't have to be "good" to be spiritual siblings. Or none of us would be would we? We are lost and fallen all of us. But most of us will receive a glory, which is our birthright. Is it not?

I would still like to just agree to disagree. I am just trying to answer your very pointed questions. I don't disagree with what you are saying, I just offered another way to look at it, and offered some food for thought. Also, I offered this as a way to answer those that attack us. I simply say 'no, they are not brothers.' It avoids contention.

Many well meaning "christians" who are so entrenched in their opinions that leave no room for other points of view, are missing out on precious truths. These zealous individuals are quite self righteous (one of the manifestations is needing to be right, and prove others wrong) about it, have no problem stomping on our beliefs. They even have trouble admitting that we are Christians. I would be tempted to tell them who Joseph Smith said are the real Christians, and who are not, but I would rather build on what we believe in common, and teach them with love. And in turn, let them teach me from their life's experience.

You drew a firm line in the sand, I disagree mostly with that. Brothers can disagree can't we? 'cos there are always different points of view. There might be some truth to what both of us said. The difficult part is seeing it.

Peace brother

[Guest Yediyd]

Tiancum, Satan isn't a son of perdition...he is perdition.

So you think his rebellion in heaven reversed his spiritual birth so that God is no longer the Father of his spirit? Just because Satan is our spiritual brother doesn't mean he's good, and you don't have to be good to be spiritual siblings. It's a false either/or.

Yediyd, here's how to make hyperlinks out of words. You sandwich your word in bracketed inserts. Let's say you want to make a link so that when people click on the word "talk" they go to "ldstalk.com"

First, you type a forward bracket, [, then you type "url=" (without the quotation marks), then you paste the url to the website, which in this case would be "ldstalk.com" (without the quotation marks), and then you type a backwards bracket, ], then the word you want to become a link which in this example is "talk" (without the quotation marks), then type another forward bracket, [, then a forward slash, /, then "url" (without the quotation marks), then a backwards bracket, ]. Voila. So here's what it'd look like in our example:

talk[/url

I left off the last backwards bracket so you could see the raw text. If I had put the backwards bracket after the [/url it would have made the link active and you wouldn't have been able to see what I typed to make the hyperlink.

So make sure you end your command with a backwards bracket. :)

By the way, is 'Yediyd' Hebrew? Sounds like a Hebrew word. Tov m'od! B)

Toh Dah! CK, ken Yediyd is an Ivrit word! It means: beloved friend. Thanks for the neat link trick!

Shalom kul tov!

[a-train]

Yo Crim,

Don't take Tiancum too offensively. What this dude is saying is totally valid. Certainly the rebellion of the Devil cannot negate the historicity of his spiritual sonship of the Father and his relation therefrom to the rest of God's children, but I don't think that is Tiancum's point. Tiancum is saying that Satan lost his status as a son of God and a member of the family of the Firstborn and is therefore no longer referred to as a child of God because he will not have God to be his Father. Let us say that Satan has declared himself emancipated and we are not arguing with him on that.

-a-train

[Annabelli]

Satan has always been identified as being an Angel.

Jesus has always been identified as being the Son of the Heavenly Father.

These would be considered two different unities.

Canons written about scripture hold that Satan was an angel and known as the Father of Truth. Because of his downfall he became the Father of Lies.

[a-train]

'The Father of Truth'? 'Canons written about scripture'?

-a-train

[Traveler]

hey Traveler...do you know Hebrew? Where do you get these original translations? I have a Tanach at home, but am still learning how to read it. Very interested in your responce.

Yediyd

I know very little Hebrew - I do know a couple of Jewish Rabbis that help me. I do not trust a lot of Christians that claim to know and study Hebrew. I perfer someone that lives a language.

The Traveler

[Traveler]

Angels are organized and ranked. One “archangel,” Michael is named (Jude 9). There are also “chief princes” (Dan.10:13), “seraphim” (Is.6:1-3) and “cherubim” (Gen.3:22-24).

The Fall of Satan

Key Passages – Ezekiel 28; Isaiah 14

A. Ezekiel 28:11-19 is a prophetic lamentation over the “King of Tyre” who is described in language that fits Satan’s fall and not a mere human king. Satan is distinguished form the human ruler of Tyre in 28:2 (“prince/ruler”) and called a “king” in 28:12 (Not even Israel’s rulers were called “King”). Though Tyre had a human “ruler”, Satan was the real “King” behind that wicked kingdom.

B. His attributes – Moral perfection (v.12) Sinless at his creation until his fall (v.15)

C. His appearance – Perfect in beauty (v.12b,13)

1. His privileges – Free access to the garden of Eden (v.12) and to God’s holy mountain (= God’s presence – v.14)

2. His rank – “Cherub” (vs.14,16)

3. His judgment –

a. Cast out of the mountain of God (v.16, cf. Rev12:4)

b. Cast to the ground (v.17)

c. Consumed by fire (v.18, cf. Rev.20:10)

D. Isaiah 14:12-15 also seems to describe Satan’s fall. Satan is manifest here by the king of Babylon. As in Ezekiel 28, Satan is pictured here as the real “king” behind the wicked human kingdom of Babylon.

1. The imagery of a “star” and “falling from heaven” (v.12) suggests a supernatural fulfillment. “Stars” (v.12,13) are symbolic of the angelic realm elsewhere (Job 38:6,7; Rev.12:4).

2. The five “I will’s” of vss. 13 & 14 are literally true of Satan and only metaphorically true of Babylon’s king. This ultimate form of pride (“I will be like the Most High” – v.14) fits the New Testament description of Satan’s fall 1 Tim.3:6.

From Bible.org

Easton's Bible Dictionary

The following is the results of your search for CHERUB.

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Cherub: Plural cherubim, the name of certain symbolical figures frequently mentioned in Scripture. They are first mentioned in connection with the expulsion of our first parents from Eden (Genesis 3:24) There is no intimation given of their shape or form. They are next mentioned when Moses was commanded to provide furniture for the tabernacle (Exodus 25:17-20; 26:1,31) God promised to commune with Moses "from between the cherubim" (Exodus 25:22) This expression was afterwards used to denote the Divine abode and presence (Numbers 7:89; 1 Samuel 4:4; Isaiah 37:16) (Psalms 80:1; 99:1) In Ezekiel's vision (Ezekiel 10:1-20) they appear as living creatures supporting the throne of God. From Ezekiel's description of them (Ezekiel 1:10-25; 41:18, 19) they appear to have been compound figures, unlike any real object in nature; artificial images possessing the features and properties of several animals. Two cherubim were placed on the mercy-seat of the ark; two of colossal size overshadowed it in Solomon's temple. Ezekiel (Ezekiel 1:4-14) speaks of four; and this number of "living creatures" is mentioned in (Revelation 4:6) Those on the ark are called the "cherubim of glory" (Hebrews 9:5) i.e., of the Shechinah, or cloud of glory, for on them the visible glory of God rested. They were placed one at each end of the mercy-seat, with wings stretched upward, and their faces "toward each other and toward the mercy-seat." They were anointed with holy oil, like the ark itself and the other sacred furniture. The cherubim were symbolical. They were intended to represent spiritual existences in immediate contact with Jehovah. Some have regarded them as symbolical of the chief ruling power by which God carries on his operations in providence (Psalms 18:10) Others interpret them as having reference to the redemption of men, and as symbolizing the great rulers or ministers of the church. Many other opinions have been held regarding them which need not be referred to here. On the whole, it seems to be most satisfactory to regard the interpretation of the symbol to be variable, as is the symbol itself. Their office was,

1. on the expulsion of our first parents from Eden, to prevent all access to the tree of life; and

2. to form the throne and chariot of Jehovah in his manifestation of himself on earth. He dwelleth between and sitteth on the cherubim (1 Samuel 4:4; Psalms 80:1; Ezekiel 1:26,28)

(See ANGEL)

Easton's Bible Dictionary

The following is the results of your search for ANGEL.

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Angel: A word signifying, both in the Hebrew and Greek, a "messenger," and hence employed to denote any agent God sends forth to execute his purposes. It is used of an ordinary messenger (Job 1:14; 1 Samuel 11:3) (Luke 7:24; 9:52) of prophets (Isaiah 42:19; Haggai 1:13) of priests (Malachi 2:7) and ministers of the New Testament (Revelation 1:20) It is also applied to such impersonal agents as the pestilence (2 Samuel 24:16,17) (2 Kings 19:35) the wind (Psalms 104:4) But its distinctive application is to certain heavenly intelligences whom God employs in carrying on his government of the world. The name does not denote their nature but their office as messengers. The appearances to Abraham at Mamre (Genesis 18:2,22) Comp. (Genesis 19:1) to Jacob at Peniel (Genesis 32:24,30) to Joshua at Gilgal (Joshua 5:13,15) of the Angel of the Lord, were doubtless manifestations of the Divine presence, "foreshadowings of the incarnation," revelations before the "fulness of the time" of the Son of God.

1. The existence and orders of angelic beings can only be discovered from the Scriptures. Although the Bible does not treat of this subject specially, yet there are numerous incidental details that furnish us with ample information. Their personal existence is plainly implied in such passages as

(Genesis 16:7,10,11; Judges 13:1-21; Matthew 28:2-5; Hebrews 1:4) etc. These superior beings are very numerous. "Thousand thousands," etc.

(Daniel 7:10; Matthew 26:53; Luke 2:13; Hebrews 12:22,23) They are also spoken of as of different ranks in dignity and power

(Zechariah 1:9,11; Daniel 10:13; 12:1; 1 Thessalonians 4:16; Jude 1:9; Ephesians 1:21; Colossians 1:16)

2. As to their nature, they are spirits (Hebrews 1:14) like the soul of man, but not incorporeal. Such expressions as "like the angels"

(Luke 20:36) and the fact that whenever angels appeared to man it was always in a human form (Genesis 18:2; 19:1,10; Luke 24:4; Acts 1:10) and the titles that are applied to them of God,") (Job 1:6; 38:7)

(Daniel 3:25) comp. (Daniel 3:28) and to men (Luke 3:38) seem all to indicate some resemblance between them and the human race. Imperfection is ascribed to them as creatures (Job 4:18)

(Matthew 24:36; 1 Peter 1:12) As finite creatures they may fall under temptation; and accordingly we read of "fallen angels." Of the cause and manner of their "fall" we are wholly ignorant. We know only that "they left their first estate" (Matthew 25:41; Revelation 12:7,9) and that they are "reserved unto judgement" (2 Peter 2:4) When the manna is called "angels' food," this is merely to denote its excellence (Psalms 78:25) Angels never die (Luke 20:36) They are possessed of superhuman intelligence and power (Mark 13:32)

(2 Thessalonians 1:7; Psalms 103:20) They are called "holy" (Luke 9:26) "elect" (1 Timothy 5:21) The redeemed in glory are "like unto the angels" (Luke 20:36) They are not to be worshipped (Colossians 2:18)

(Revelation 19:10)

3. Their functions are manifold. a. In the widest sense they are agents of God's providence

(Exodus 12:23; Psalms 104:4; Hebrews 11:28; 1 Corinthians 10:10; 2 Samuel 24:16; 1 Chronicles 21:16)

(2 Kings 19:35; Acts 12:23) b. They are specially God's agents in carrying on his great work of redemption. There is no notice of angelic appearances to man till after the call of Abraham. From that time onward there are frequent references to their ministry on earth (Genesis 18:1)ff (Genesis 19:1)ff (Genesis 24:7,40)

(Genesis 28:12; 32:1) They appear to rebuke idolatry (Judges 2:1-4) to call Gideon (Judges 6:11,12) and to consecrate Samson

(Judges 13:3) In the days of the prophets, from Samuel downward, the angels appear only in their behalf

(1 Kings 19:5; 2 Kings 6:17; Zechariah 1:1-6; Daniel 4:13,23; 10:10,13,20,21) The Incarnation introduces a new era in the ministrations of angels. They come with their Lord to earth to do him service while here. They predict his advent (Matthew 1:20; Luke 1:26-38) minister to him after his temptation and agony (Matthew 4:11)

(Luke 22:43) and declare his resurrection and ascension

(Matthew 28:2-8; John 20:12,13; Acts 1:10,11) They are now ministering spirits to the people of God (Hebrews 1:14; Psalms 34:7)

(Psalms 91:11; Matthew 18:10; Acts 5:19; 8:26; 10:3; 12:7; 27:23) They rejoice over a penitent sinner (Luke 15:10) They bear the souls of the redeemed to paradise (Luke 16:22) and they will be the ministers of judgement hereafter on the great day (Matthew 13:39,41,49; 16:27; 24:31) The passages (Psalms 34:7)

(Matthew 18:10) usually referred to in support of the idea that every individual has a particular guardian angel have no such meaning. They merely indicate that God employs the ministry of angels to deliver his people from affliction and danger, and that the angels do not think it below their dignity to minister even to children and to the least among Christ's disciples. The "angel of his presence" (Isaiah 63:9) Comp.

(Exodus 23:20,21; 32:34; 33:2; Numbers 20:16) is probably rightly interpreted of the Messiah as the guide of his people. Others have supposed the expression to refer to Gabriel

(Luke 1:19)

(See CHERUB)

(See SERAPHIM)

from http://bible.christiansunite.com/est.cgi?a...amp;terms=ANGEL

I am well aware of all the paid professional Christians that speculate about all kinds of things to earn money and earthly rewards. There is no scripture that I know of that says Cherubum are angels. Nor have I ever found a reference to refer to anything meaningful from anyone that says Cherubum are angels. They may reference each other - but nothing of G-d that says Cherubum are angels. No one of authority like a prophet directed to speak for G-d as Isaiah or any heavenly party ever said a Cherub is an angel.

We know that Satan was a Cherub - you showed us that scripture. I know of no other scripture that says Satan ever was an angel. I do know of a scripture that says Satan is a g-d. In particular the "g-d of this world". But though the Bible says exactly that I have met few Christians outside of the LDS that believe the Bible. They say they believe the Bible - until it says something they do not like then they make up all kinds of excuses - my favorit is "but you do not understand the context". Which means to me - "if it is not in the context of meaning what we want we do not believe it". And then they say the Mormons do not believe the Bible.

The Traveler

[Annabelli]

A fictitious work that I found interesting concerning angels is by author Sophy Burnham and is entitled "A Book of Angels." If you are knowledgeable of the scriptures then you will use this as a reference and treat it as a work of fiction. She does not give information as to her own religious preference and includes many references to various religious organizations. But it is an interesting work to give you an insight as to how the many different concept of angels came about.

[Dr T]

Thank you for post #28 CK. I thought you might know about it. :)

[Dr T]

===

Traveler,

I am well aware of all the paid professional Christians that speculate about all kinds of things to earn money and earthly rewards.

Poisoning the well, sir.

Context is very important when reading scripture Traveler. We would all do well to read what it says and read it in context. It's one of the keys to good hermeneutics. There are many difficult verses but when we read them in light of the entirety of the Bible, they can often be reconciled appropriately.

The "god of this world" is exactly what I've said multiple times on this site before. All god's mentioned in the Bible besides the One true God are false gods. That's all there is to that.

[CrimsonKairos]

Shalom Yediyd. B) Anee ohayv shaymeem Ivrit (I love Hebrew names). On several online sites I go by "Talmeed" which is Hebrew for "disciple." Have you studied Hebrew too? L'heetraoht (goodbye and be blessed).

Thank you for post #28 CK. I thought you might know about it. :)

No prob.

Tiancum, I was getting hung up on the literality of Satan's being our spirit brother. If you're defining "son of God" to mean a child of Christ or those who are reborn through Christ and become his sons (and daughters), then of course Satan is not a "son of God" in that context.

But if someone asks me point-blank, "Are Satan and Jesus brothers?" I'd have to in all honesty say, "Yes, God the Father is the Father of their spirits; they are spirit siblings as are we all."

Wasn't trying to be confrontational, bro. Just trying to get you to expand upon your previous statements. Of course we can disagree, I don't think you're an idiot or something, I just think the scriptures and teachings of prophets indicate Satan was, is and always will be a spirit son of God the Father.

[Annabelli]

I will leave the pre-existence up to the Lord just as I leave all matters of life hereafter with him. I will trust no teachings except the Lord's. He says "stay away from Satan" and that's just what I do.

It is not up to us to justify Satan. That's just another way of being mislead. I don't change my Faith every time I want something.

When I do things that are not right, whether I get caught or not, it is my responsibility to repent. That is my relationship with the Lord.

I have no relationship with Satan. It is not for us to forgive him, take him as kinship, or love him in any form. He is pure evil.

[CrimsonKairos]

I dont' recall anyone saying they loved Satan.

He is our spirit brother. Why is this such a weird concept or doctrine? Just because he's our spirit brother doesn't mean we have to love him.

[Annabelli]

I dont' recall anyone saying they loved Satan.

He is our spirit brother. Why is this such a weird concept or doctrine? Just because he's our spirit brother doesn't mean we have to love him.

Many people are streamlining or manifesting their own gospel into "pre-existence" formats.

The scriptures teach us that Satan is evil. Why is that such a weird concept or doctrine?

[CrimsonKairos]

I don't get it. What do you mean by streamlining gospels into pre-existance formats?

[Dr T]

I'm glad you asked CK. I was directed at you but I had the same question.

[Guest Yediyd]

hey Traveler...do you know Hebrew? Where do you get these original translations? I have a Tanach at home, but am still learning how to read it. Very interested in your responce.

Yediyd

I know very little Hebrew - I do know a couple of Jewish Rabbis that help me. I do not trust a lot of Christians that claim to know and study Hebrew. I perfer someone that lives a language.

The Traveler

Huh? what is your problem? I don't care whether you "trust" me or not! I'm studieing Hebrew because I love the language and for my own personal reasons. It has nothing to do with any "agenda". Yeeesh...lighten up, dude!