Women and Children and the Millenium

[pam]

This is a question that gets asked quite frequently regarding those women who can't bear children in mortal life.

 

Read what Gramps has to say:

 

http://askgramps.org/23914/woman-cant-bear-child-mortal-life-will-millenium

 

 

[Palerider]

I believe that .....good article

[Seminarysnoozer]

This is a question that gets asked quite frequently regarding those women who can't bear children in mortal life.

 

Read what Gramps has to say:

 

http://askgramps.org/23914/woman-cant-bear-child-mortal-life-will-millenium

To be clear about what he is saying is that during the millenium all the blessings that would have been available can be righted and quotes; D&C 18; " 15 And if it so be that you should labor all your days in crying repentance unto this people, and bring, save it be one ^asoul unto me, how great shall be your joy with him in the kingdom of my Father!"  So, he explains that the spiritual sense of the word "seed" will come into play, the bringing of souls to Christ, called seed. 

The article doesn't give specifics as to how that will take place but suggests it is more of a "sharing the gospel" kind of seed, "They will find themselves surrounded by their children in the faith who remain grateful for the nourishing watchcare that brought the prodigals home." (i.e. - conversion)

 

In other words, those women will have opportunity to be missionaries and help convert souls in the millenium to help them realize their Abrahamic covenants. The Millenium will be their chance to "labor all (their) days in crying repentance".  ... is what Gramps said.

[mordorbund]

SeminarySnoozer, what do you think the level of ministry will be for resurrected beings in the Millennium? My understanding is that they will introduce the living to records of the dead, but I'm unaware of them serving in the role of preachers - especially when the Church will still exist.

 

Do you think the Millennium will serve as a period where these women will receive converts? Will they also have the converts sealed to them? Or will some of that work and effort happen while these women are still in mortality?

[Seminarysnoozer]

SeminarySnoozer, what do you think the level of ministry will be for resurrected beings in the Millennium? My understanding is that they will introduce the living to records of the dead, but I'm unaware of them serving in the role of preachers - especially when the Church will still exist.

 

Do you think the Millennium will serve as a period where these women will receive converts? Will they also have the converts sealed to them? Or will some of that work and effort happen while these women are still in mortality?

Great questions that I don't know if I have complete answers for.  I do know that the two great works during the millenium are temple work and missionary work.  And that immortal beings will come down to assist in both works.  Only the righteous (meaning people who will end up in either the Terrestrial or Celestial Kingdoms) will be around during the Millenium but they will still have agency and continue in their beliefs.  Eventually, though, they will all confess Christ as their Savior as stated in Jeremiah 31; " 34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for they shall all ^aknow me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the Lord: for I will forgive their ^biniquity, and I will remember their sin no more."

 

I think the answer to your last question is 'both' now and then. 

 

The other thing to consider is that we believe in the power of vicarious experience.  The work of the Lord testifies to that ability, to have such charity and love to be able to experience the pain and sorry of another's sin.  It wouldn't be unreasonable to suggest that when a person makes it to the Celestial Kingdom such power of vicarious experience will be theirs as well.  A woman who did not have the experience of raising children could still have such a powerful empathy that the experience is theirs as well from another's. In fact, I think this is what makes the Celestial Kingdom and endless source of joy, when a person can take joy from another's act.  When joy is only obtained from personal acts - that starts to sound like Satan's idea of happiness, it is limited.

 

I believe the possibility of having joy multiplied is expressed to us many times over but we sometimes miss that message; D&C 18:" 16 And now, if your joy will be great with one soul that you have brought unto me into the ^akingdom of my Father, how great will be your ^bjoy if you should bring many ^csouls unto me!"  ... (the exclamation point is in the scriptures!)  Also couch this with the idea that we receive the blessings of the Abrahamic covenant when we are obedient to the laws and ordinances of the gospel even if we are not the literal sons or daughters of Abraham.  The blessings include that through our seed ALL the families of the world will be blessed. Abraham 2: " 10 And I will ^abless them through thy name; for as many as receive this ^bGospel shall be called after thy ^cname, and shall be accounted thy ^dseed, and shall rise up and bless thee, as their ^efather;" (I am assuming that means as their "mother" as well)

[mordorbund]

I'm familiar with Joseph Fielding Smith quotes about angels coming to assist in the work for the dead, but I can't think of anything about "immortal beings will come down to assist in [missionary work]" during the Millennium. Do you have any references?

[Seminarysnoozer]

I'm familiar with Joseph Fielding Smith quotes about angels coming to assist in the work for the dead, but I can't think of anything about "immortal beings will come down to assist in [missionary work]" during the Millennium. Do you have any references?

I had one, sorry, lost it.  The best I remember is simply the chapter on the millenium in Gospel Principles, chapter 45 where a quote from Joseph Smith says that these beings will be involved in the government and "other work".  So, not just with geneology.

... ah there it is, Gospel Fundamentals chapter 34; "The Prophet Joseph Smith said that people from heaven will visit the earth often during the Millennium. They will help with the work done in the temples and with missionary work."

[mordorbund]

I had one, sorry, lost it.  The best I remember is simply the chapter on the millenium in Gospel Principles, chapter 45 where a quote from Joseph Smith says that these beings will be involved in the government and "other work".  So, not just with geneology.

... ah there it is, Gospel Fundamentals chapter 34; "The Prophet Joseph Smith said that people from heaven will visit the earth often during the Millennium. They will help with the work done in the temples and with missionary work."

 

Thanks. That's the first I've heard of the Gospel Fundamentals manual. For anyone else that's curious, the quoted section can be found here: https://www.lds.org/manual/gospel-fundamentals/chapter-34-the-millennium?lang=eng

 

Unfortunately, the manual doesn't cite its sources. From my knowledge, the first sentence was something Joseph Smith said (you can find it in the JS manual) specifically about governing with Christ, but the first part of the second sentence was taught by Joseph Fielding Smith (the next section in the manual uses the JFS teaching). I have no idea where the second part of the second sentence is coming from (the next section in the manual reaffirms that missionary work will be done, but now the resurrected persons are absent - they're only mentioned with respect to temple work).

 

I'm not trying to pick on you SeminarySnoozer. This is a new teaching for me and I'm trying to find its origin.

[The Folk Prophet]

I wonder where the millennium part of the question asked comes into play. Probably from the idea that there are quotes along the lines of people who have young children die will be able to raise them in the millennium (though, personally, I think this idea is more akin to folk-doctrine). As the article suggests, no one will be denied promised blessings if faithful. But in the millennium?

 

It is an interesting thought though, and it really comes down to, and pertains to, the idea of raising physical, mortal children. In theory, the sands-of-the-sea posterity promise refers to the having of spirit children. But -- there is a certain feeling of missing out that comes from not being able to raise physical, mortal children. I guess the question is, when all is said and done, will having missed out on that opportunity really matter in the eternities or not? Or will it be more like a child complaining that they never got to...I dunno...color with crayons as a child. That doesn't mean that when they're an adult that they're going to want to spend their days coloring or that they'll want to revert back to their childish state so they can enjoy childish things once more. (Maybe there's a better "childish" example than coloring...but hopefully my point comes across.)

[Seminarysnoozer]

I wonder where the millennium part of the question asked comes into play. Probably from the idea that there are quotes along the lines of people who have young children die will be able to raise them in the millennium (though, personally, I think this idea is more akin to folk-doctrine). As the article suggests, no one will be denied promised blessings if faithful. But in the millennium?

 

It is an interesting thought though, and it really comes down to, and pertains to, the idea of raising physical, mortal children. In theory, the sands-of-the-sea posterity promise refers to the having of spirit children. But -- there is a certain feeling of missing out that comes from not being able to raise physical, mortal children. I guess the question is, when all is said and done, will having missed out on that opportunity really matter in the eternities or not? Or will it be more like a child complaining that they never got to...I dunno...color with crayons as a child. That doesn't mean that when they're an adult that they're going to want to spend their days coloring or that they'll want to revert back to their childish state so they can enjoy childish things once more. (Maybe there's a better "childish" example than coloring...but hopefully my point comes across.)

Yes, like these types of quotes; "President Joseph F. Smith said: “Joseph Smith taught the doctrine that the infant child that was laid away in death would come up in the resurrection as a child; and, pointing to the mother of a lifeless child, he said to her: ‘You will have the joy, the pleasure, and satisfaction of nurturing this child, after its resurrection, until it reaches the full stature of its spirit.’ There is restitution, there is growth, there is development, after the resurrection from death. I love this truth. It speaks volumes of happiness, of joy and gratitude to my soul. Thank the Lord he has revealed these principles to us.” (Gospel Doctrine, pp. 455–56.)"

 

But, at the same time the spirit of the child is an adult spirit and will have the privilege of marrying and obtaining all the blessings anyone would in the Celestial Kingdom.  So, it almost seems like the Millenium would be a reversion for that spirit, which to me seems odd.  Bruce R. McConkie; "Children are the sons and daughters of God. They lived and dwelt with him for ages and eons before their mortal birth. They are adults before birth; they are adults at death."

 

I don't understand the need for what Joseph F. Smith is talking about.  If God can give us a resurrected body that changes from its mortal state to its perfected form automatically (for those that die at an older age, the body would change to something more like it looked maybe 50 to 60 years before its death) then it does not seem unreasonable that an adult spirit that died with their mortal body in a child state could receive an immortal adult body automatically (years different than its death).  Or, is it that the process of resurrection can only go in one direction, reverse?  That seems odd to me.   Unless, we believe that the resurrected body of a person that dies at an older age would also have to develop over time to meet the stature of its spirit - like Mork from Ork. Why would it have to be in the one direction and not the reverse?