Masonry

[orrinjelo]

I've been looking into Masonry (the Free-Masons) for a while and I'm wondering if I should join the fraternity. It is a subject I ran into in Germany during and after my stay in Bremen (Bremen was one of the big places in Europe for Masons--tons of history). I also learned some of the history between Masons and the Church--not to go into much detail about that right now unless we need to...

Now my question that I've been wondering forever--why was Joseph Smith and several other Prophets of the Church free-masons?

[CrimsonKairos]

I don't see why you joining would be a problem unless you encounter anything that would require you to break covenants or endorse falsehoods. Other than that, it's the good 'ole boys club.

[Saab900man]

I've been looking into Masonry (the Free-Masons) for a while and I'm wondering if I should join the fraternity. It is a subject I ran into in Germany during and after my stay in Bremen (Bremen was one of the big places in Europe for Masons--tons of history). I also learned some of the history between Masons and the Church--not to go into much detail about that right now unless we need to...

Now my question that I've been wondering forever--why was Joseph Smith and several other Prophets of the Church free-masons?

I have heard it may have been because alot of the early Saints could not read that well and it was a easy teaching "tool" for eternal truths (the rituals).

[orrinjelo]

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I've been looking into Masonry (the Free-Masons) for a while and I'm wondering if I should join the fraternity. It is a subject I ran into in Germany during and after my stay in Bremen (Bremen was one of the big places in Europe for Masons--tons of history). I also learned some of the history between Masons and the Church--not to go into much detail about that right now unless we need to...

Now my question that I've been wondering forever--why was Joseph Smith and several other Prophets of the Church free-masons?

I have heard it may have been because alot of the early Saints could not read that well and it was a easy teaching "tool" for eternal truths (the rituals).

I'm not sure I understand what you mean....

[CrimsonKairos]

Let me just say at the start of this thread that there are similarities between some Masonic rituals and aspects of the LDS endowment ceremony.

If this thread detours into a discussion of endowment particulars and their Masonic counterparts, it'll be shut down.

[Saab900man]

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I've been looking into Masonry (the Free-Masons) for a while and I'm wondering if I should join the fraternity. It is a subject I ran into in Germany during and after my stay in Bremen (Bremen was one of the big places in Europe for Masons--tons of history). I also learned some of the history between Masons and the Church--not to go into much detail about that right now unless we need to...

Now my question that I've been wondering forever--why was Joseph Smith and several other Prophets of the Church free-masons?

I have heard it may have been because alot of the early Saints could not read that well and it was a easy teaching "tool" for eternal truths (the rituals).

I'm not sure I understand what you mean....

alot of the early saints were already masons so it was easy to teach un-educated saints using what they were already familiar with.

Like telling a story with pictures you have seen before but giving them different meanings.

(please don't take this as a fact until you have studied it for your self)

I read about this on:

www.jefflindsay.com

but it has been a while since I have read it.

Let me just say at the start of this thread that there are similarities between some Masonic rituals and aspects of the LDS endowment ceremony.

If this thread detours into a discussion of endowment particulars and their Masonic counterparts, it'll be shut down.

No worries from me I am stayin' clear of that!

[Guest MrsS]

I've been looking into Masonry (the Free-Masons) for a while and I'm wondering if I should join the fraternity. It is a subject I ran into in Germany during and after my stay in Bremen (Bremen was one of the big places in Europe for Masons--tons of history). I also learned some of the history between Masons and the Church--not to go into much detail about that right now unless we need to...

Now my question that I've been wondering forever--why was Joseph Smith and several other Prophets of the Church free-masons?

Why don't you talk this over with your Bishop?

[orrinjelo]

Let me just say at the start of this thread that there are similarities between some Masonic rituals and aspects of the LDS endowment ceremony.

If this thread detours into a discussion of endowment particulars and their Masonic counterparts, it'll be shut down.

Yes, that's what I'm trying to prevent....I can see how people can connect Masonic rituals with some of ours, I can see that clearly.

Well, reading through an article Jeff referenced, I guess I knew that part already.

*tries to think* I think I'm still missing something....aw, let me sleep first and I'll ask away later.

[a-train]

Masonry was a popular social scene in Illinois when the Saints arrived there. Joseph and others number themselves with the group as a gesture of friendship. The Nauvoo Lodge admitted many members who were not LDS. There were even ministers from other churches among the Masons there.

I equate the LDS Church's relationship to the Ancient York Masons in Illinois with the LDS Church's Modern relationship with the Boy Scouts of America, save the Boy Scouts are actually dealt with during Church meetings.

-a-train

[Brother Dorsey]

Let me just say at the start of this thread that there are similarities between some Masonic rituals and aspects of the LDS endowment ceremony.

If this thread detours into a discussion of endowment particulars and their Masonic counterparts, it'll be shut down.

Actually CK I can say for a certianty that none of the Masonic "rituals" come even close to the endowment ceremony. The similarities some speak of are vague and common and are of no consequence. The Mason's are not a Christian based brotherhood...they allow all faiths.

[CrimsonKairos]

Actually CK I can say for a certianty that none of the Masonic "rituals" come even close to the endowment ceremony.

Not sure what you've been reading, but the Masonic rituals and the endowment ceremony did and still do have elements in common. The purpose is different, and the overall experience is different, but there are individual parts that are identical (though again, their meaning and function are different).

[Jason]

Seems like some here have an idea, and other's do not.

Why don't you ask the resident Freemason? (That's me in case you didn't know.)

[CrimsonKairos]

Jason, will you deal with any inquiries through PM's please. Again, we don't want this thread turning into a "let's discuss the endowment ceremony in detail" in a public forum. Thanks bro.

[sixpacktr]

Masonry was a popular social scene in Illinois when the Saints arrived there. Joseph and others number themselves with the group as a gesture of friendship. The Nauvoo Lodge admitted many members who were not LDS. There were even ministers from other churches among the Masons there.

I equate the LDS Church's relationship to the Ancient York Masons in Illinois with the LDS Church's Modern relationship with the Boy Scouts of America, save the Boy Scouts are actually dealt with during Church meetings.

-a-train

That is how I understood it as well. They were simply, after being driven out of Missouri, trying to establish friends in Illinois so that they could have people outside the faith that would help them in need. It is even averred that Joseph's last cries out of the window at Carthage (My Lord, My God) was a call to the Masons in the crowd to save him. That may be a faith promoting rumor, and I'm not sure on that...

[mk2_gti]

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Masonry was a popular social scene in Illinois when the Saints arrived there. Joseph and others number themselves with the group as a gesture of friendship. The Nauvoo Lodge admitted many members who were not LDS. There were even ministers from other churches among the Masons there.

I equate the LDS Church's relationship to the Ancient York Masons in Illinois with the LDS Church's Modern relationship with the Boy Scouts of America, save the Boy Scouts are actually dealt with during Church meetings.

-a-train

That is how I understood it as well. They were simply, after being driven out of Missouri, trying to establish friends in Illinois so that they could have people outside the faith that would help them in need. It is even averred that Joseph's last cries out of the window at Carthage (My Lord, My God) was a call to the Masons in the crowd to save him. That may be a faith promoting rumor, and I'm not sure on that...

Rumour has it that he called out something along the lines of ".........is there no help for the widows son" or something similar, and was a call to any masons in the group to help him. As for the masonic similarities, I understood that connection to be a result of the temple of solomon. I may be wrong, but dont the masons claim to have roots clear back to the temple of solomon?

[Jason]

Rumour has it that he called out something along the lines of ".........is there no help for the widows son" or something similar, and was a call to any masons in the group to help him.

That's part of a distress call well known to Masons. So yes, he was trying to establish himself as a Mason in distress to call any Masons in the crowd to help defend him.

If there were any Masons in the mob, they failed to do their duty.

As for the masonic similarities, I understood that connection to be a result of the temple of solomon. I may be wrong, but dont the masons claim to have roots clear back to the temple of solomon?

That was one idea held at that time (even up until more recent days) but we now know that this is little more than wishful thinking. The ceremonies of Freemasonry (with their accompanying grips, signs, tokens and penalties) are the product of no earlier than the late middle-ages.

[Jason]

For a real idea of what Masons and Mormons do, you'd better watch this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3l86ugOGv6o

(And if you don't laugh, there's something wrong with you.)

[prisonchaplain]

By way of information: I participated in a broader discussion on the issue of Free Masonry at another forum (not LDS-specific, but with several contributors who are). For many Christians, Masonry is suspect because of its secret rituals, and a perception that loyalty to a lodge may compete with loyalty to God and church. My church prohibits church leaders from joining, and discourages members from doing so. I believe the Catholic Church also has strong misgivings about it. No judgement here--just another perspective. :-)

[sixpacktr]

For a real idea of what Masons and Mormons do, you'd better watch this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3l86ugOGv6o

(And if you don't laugh, there's something wrong with you.)

Jason,

Our internet at work blocks youtube, but I am guessing this is the Monty Python bit on Masons?

[Jason]

Hey Chap.

Most Christian misgivings stem not from Freemasonry, but from the "continuing bodies" which are outside the pale of Freemasonry.

These outside bodies include the Shriners, the York rite and Scottish rite.

When you hear someone say they're a 33 degree Mason, they're not actually telling the truth.

Freemasonry has three degrees. There is no such thing as a degree higher than the Third in Freemasonry. Never has been, never will be.

The "ookie, spooky" stuff comes mostly from the Scottish Rite, and Albert Pike's book for that rite.

That has nothing whatsoever to do with Freemasonry. Every anti-Masonic book and tract I've read quotes stuff from the other rites, but nothing actually from the Blue Lodge.

Just an FYI.

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For a real idea of what Masons and Mormons do, you'd better watch this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3l86ugOGv6o

(And if you don't laugh, there's something wrong with you.)

Jason,

Our internet at work blocks youtube, but I am guessing this is the Monty Python bit on Masons?

Nope. Its a cartoon spoof.

[Guest Yediyd]

I went to it Jason, and I was offended by it....some of it was funny, but the racial bigotry was insulting and I'm not even Jewish. I believe you took it all in good fun, but unfortunately...it was stuff like this that Hittler used to sway the masses into believing that Germany's problems were the fault of the "greedy Jews". I have Jewish friends who would very much be insulted by that video.

(I will admit that I caught myself chuckling a few times, though)

[Dr T]

Me too. Did you see that cat?

[Guest Yediyd]

Me too. Did you see that cat?

Yes I did, betcha loved that part, huh T ?

[Jason]

I took it in good humor. They also mocked Catholics, animal activists, plastic surgeons, as well as Masons and Jews. (and watch out for the Mac and Cheese!)

Sealab cartoons mock everyone. It's like the Simpsons. Nobody's safe, and nobody's a real target.

[Guest Yediyd]

I took it in good humor. They also mocked Catholics, animal activists, plastic surgeons, as well as Masons and Jews. (and watch out for the Mac and Cheese!)

Sealab cartoons mock everyone. It's like the Simpsons. Nobody's safe, and nobody's a real target.

Well in that case...I admit I found it amusing...to a degree.

...but I guess it's just not my kind of humor...I HATE the Simpsons and South Park.