The Folk Prophet Posted August 5, 2014 Report Share Posted August 5, 2014 I dunno though. In some ways I feel that addiction to viewing illicit sexual materials is inherent in being male. The strong drive is built in, and the stimulation from viewing is there whether you've given into it or not. The difference, I think, is in the habit, of course. But the drive is there and must be vigilantly defended against consistently throughout one's hormonally charged life. It's not easy to stop either way. And it's not easy to not start either way. It takes focus, diligence, and a constant effort to cross oneself in these things to remain pure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 5, 2014 Report Share Posted August 5, 2014 You must not know any smokers I didn't grow up Mormon. I tried smoking when I was working 3rd shift. Everybody was doing it and I was getting free smokes. After a few days of putting up with the nasty taste in my mouth, I told everybody they can keep their smokes. My husband has been smoking for years when we met. I told him I don't tolerate smoking and he stopped. Yesterday he was smoking, today he wasn't. And we were just close friends then. Not even dating. And then there's my occasional smoker marine friend who laughed when I told him smoking is bad for him. But yeah, my college professor smoked 2 packs a day... he would smoke in the classroom and had this annoying hacking cough. School tried to get him to stop. He can't. So, it was either deal with his smoking or kick him out of school. He was the best teacher in the college so we put up with it. They all come in all shapes and sizes. But it's all the same. If you agree that it is a bad thing and you have trouble stopping yourself from doing it... then you're struggling with it. Addiction is - much more than just struggling with it... addiction is a compulsion that drives your life. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 5, 2014 Report Share Posted August 5, 2014 I dunno though. In some ways I feel that addiction to viewing illicit sexual materials is inherent in being male. The strong drive is built in, and the stimulation from viewing is there whether you've given into it or not. The difference, I think, is in the habit, of course. But the drive is there and must be vigilantly defended against consistently throughout one's hormonally charged life. It's not easy to stop either way. And it's not easy to not start either way. It takes focus, diligence, and a constant effort to cross oneself in these things to remain pure. Yikes! That is terrible! I have to admit I'm having a hard time grasping this concept especially as it pertains to my husband and sons. And to think I have a problem with my raging temper... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
omegaseamaster75 Posted August 5, 2014 Report Share Posted August 5, 2014 If your husband stopped and never touched another cigarette he was not addicted....so not really a relevant comparison. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 5, 2014 Report Share Posted August 5, 2014 If your husband stopped and never touched another cigarette he was not addicted....so not really a relevant comparison. Uhmm.. hello... this thread is not talking about addiction only. It is specifically referring to STRUGGLE. Just because one struggles does not mean one is addicted! And of course, everyone who is addicted is struggling! There are those who struggle with shopping on Sunday... does that mean they are addicted to shopping? The word Addiction was not even mentioned until you brought it up. Geez lueez. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just_A_Guy Posted August 5, 2014 Report Share Posted August 5, 2014 "No, I don't sBut omega, the OP's question is not "Have you been exposed to pornography?". Her question is, "Do you struggle with pornography?" Two totally different things. "I don't suffer from insanity. I enjoy every minute of it." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Folk Prophet Posted August 5, 2014 Report Share Posted August 5, 2014 If your husband stopped and never touched another cigarette he was not addicted....so not really a relevant comparison. I know certain viewed define addiction as a lack of control. But then there's also the idea that once an addict always an addict, even when one is not engaged in said behavior. The two ideas contradict each other somewhat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrShorty Posted August 6, 2014 Report Share Posted August 6, 2014 I dunno though. In some ways I feel that addiction to viewing illicit sexual materials is inherent in being male. The strong drive is built in, and the stimulation from viewing is there whether you've given into it or not. The difference, I think, is in the habit, of course. But the drive is there and must be vigilantly defended against consistently throughout one's hormonally charged life. In many ways, this is reminiscent of one part of the "is porn really addictive" debate. Many of those who argue against porn as an addiction argue that what we call an addiction is simply an expression of higher libido. As interesting as that is, the thing I really "struggle" with in this characterization is this. When put in these terms, sometimes it really sounds like libido (especially the stereotypical male libido) is some kind of "bogeyman" just waiting for the slightest excuse to destroy us. In this line of thinking, men and women live in dire fear of libido and never really learn to understand and embrace Godly sexuality. Where does sexuality and libido fit into a healthy, righteous LDS lifestyle? How does it fit into the life of singles? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Folk Prophet Posted August 6, 2014 Report Share Posted August 6, 2014 In many ways, this is reminiscent of one part of the "is porn really addictive" debate. Many of those who argue against porn as an addiction argue that what we call an addiction is simply an expression of higher libido. As interesting as that is, the thing I really "struggle" with in this characterization is this. When put in these terms, sometimes it really sounds like libido (especially the stereotypical male libido) is some kind of "bogeyman" just waiting for the slightest excuse to destroy us. In this line of thinking, men and women live in dire fear of libido and never really learn to understand and embrace Godly sexuality. Where does sexuality and libido fit into a healthy, righteous LDS lifestyle? How does it fit into the life of singles? *shrug* I'm no expert on it. I know what the church teaches. Within the bound of marriage sex is appropriate. Outside of marriage, not so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
omegaseamaster75 Posted August 6, 2014 Report Share Posted August 6, 2014 Uhmm.. hello... this thread is not talking about addiction only. It is specifically referring to STRUGGLE. Just because one struggles does not mean one is addicted! And of course, everyone who is addicted is struggling! There are those who struggle with shopping on Sunday... does that mean they are addicted to shopping? The word Addiction was not even mentioned until you brought it up. Geez lueez.If your husband stopped smoking from one day to the next he didn't really struggle with it did he? Again not relevant Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
omegaseamaster75 Posted August 6, 2014 Report Share Posted August 6, 2014 Not all members who use pornographic materials become addicted..... This is not to say that members should view pornographic materials they shouldn't and should work towards not viewing them at all everI mention addict because I copied the line I highlighted in bold directly from church materials, so clearly there is a line drawn between viewing/being exposed and addiction. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Folk Prophet Posted August 6, 2014 Report Share Posted August 6, 2014 If your husband stopped smoking from one day to the next he didn't really struggle with it did he? Again not relevant Well. that's just drivel and a half. I quit caffeine cold turkey with a severe addiction. Just quit. Stopped using it entirely. But, oh boy, did I struggle for a time. Will power over pain does not mean lack of struggle. Leah 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 6, 2014 Report Share Posted August 6, 2014 If your husband stopped smoking from one day to the next he didn't really struggle with it did he? Again not relevant What a crockpot this statement is! So one who successfully overcame something never struggled? Go tell that to the marines... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
omegaseamaster75 Posted August 6, 2014 Report Share Posted August 6, 2014 Life is full of exceptions, this forum is full of them mdfxdb 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mdfxdb Posted August 6, 2014 Report Share Posted August 6, 2014 Clearly I don't think Omega is trying to infer that just because someone quit doing something "cold turkey" it means they did not struggle, or were tempted. But all of the exceptions here make it sound like it is an easy thing to do. As if they are saying "just quit and be done". I think Omega is trying to say that for a true addict it just isn't that simple. True addiction, the kind of addiction that destroys lives is not overcome by going "cold turkey" Recovery from addiction is typically a long road, there are relapses, and struggles. Those that can flip a switch and just stop (if they are severe addicts) are most definitely the exception, and are typically not relevant. I'm not sure what overcoming addiction has to do with the marines....do they somehow have the inside track on overcoming addiction? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Folk Prophet Posted August 6, 2014 Report Share Posted August 6, 2014 Clearly I don't think Omega is trying to infer that just because someone quit doing something "cold turkey" it means they did not struggle, or were tempted. But all of the exceptions here make it sound like it is an easy thing to do. As if they are saying "just quit and be done". I think Omega is trying to say that for a true addict it just isn't that simple. True addiction, the kind of addiction that destroys lives is not overcome by going "cold turkey" Recovery from addiction is typically a long road, there are relapses, and struggles. Those that can flip a switch and just stop (if they are severe addicts) are most definitely the exception, and are typically not relevant. I'm not sure what overcoming addiction has to do with the marines....do they somehow have the inside track on overcoming addiction? So my addiction to caffeine was fantasy? What makes "true" addiction true? There's no level of addiction? You're either hopelessly screwed up or you don't have an addiction? Methinks there be some shades of gray in there. Everyone's different. Therefore, everyone will struggle with overcoming addictions differently. Some will struggle more, some will struggle less. This does not define what addiction is. Leah 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 6, 2014 Report Share Posted August 6, 2014 Clearly I don't think Omega is trying to infer that just because someone quit doing something "cold turkey" it means they did not struggle, or were tempted. But all of the exceptions here make it sound like it is an easy thing to do. As if they are saying "just quit and be done". I think Omega is trying to say that for a true addict it just isn't that simple. True addiction, the kind of addiction that destroys lives is not overcome by going "cold turkey" Recovery from addiction is typically a long road, there are relapses, and struggles. Those that can flip a switch and just stop (if they are severe addicts) are most definitely the exception, and are typically not relevant. I'm not sure what overcoming addiction has to do with the marines....do they somehow have the inside track on overcoming addiction? And here again we are talking different things. The OP did not mention a single thing about addiction. She specifically used the word STRUGGLE. We are not only talking about porn addicts here. All the posts are trying to address the pornography question without specifically targetting those who are addicts. The posts are trying to address the pornography question of those who are struggling with it... My specific responses address those who engage in it because they don't know that it is wrong, or those who engages in it knowing it is wrong but, like skipping church on some Sundays, partake of it occassionally in a time of weakness... or those who engage in it constantly knowing it is wrong because they just decided they don't care enough to stop... and those who can't stop even if they put every effort in not partaking of it... Hence, all the differing examples I gave of those I know who are smokers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mdfxdb Posted August 6, 2014 Report Share Posted August 6, 2014 So my addiction to caffeine was fantasy? What makes "true" addiction true? There's no level of addiction? You're either hopelessly screwed up or you don't have an addiction? Methinks there be some shades of gray in there. Everyone's different. Therefore, everyone will struggle with overcoming addictions differently. Some will struggle more, some will struggle less. This does not define what addiction is.I'm not trying to define addiction, or say there are any fantasies out there. The only fantasies are those who believe their exception is the rule in general. Just because one person out of 1,000 has the ability to quit cold turkey does not mean that they are the norm. in fact far from it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 6, 2014 Report Share Posted August 6, 2014 I'm not trying to define addiction, or say there are any fantasies out there. The only fantasies are those who believe their exception is the rule in general. Just because one person out of 1,000 has the ability to quit cold turkey does not mean that they are the norm. in fact far from it. People engaging in pornography is not the norm. So, I don't even know why you would think the ability to quit cold turkey is talked about here like it's the norm. But, as far as the OP goes... the ability to quit cold turkey might make a difference in how she deals with the answer to "are you struggling with pornography?". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Folk Prophet Posted August 6, 2014 Report Share Posted August 6, 2014 I'm not trying to define addiction, or say there are any fantasies out there. The only fantasies are those who believe their exception is the rule in general. Just because one person out of 1,000 has the ability to quit cold turkey does not mean that they are the norm. in fact far from it. That's not really the point. You claimed something about "true" addiction, thereby setting all other forms as "false" or not really addiction. Even a single exception that qualifies as "true" counts in that case. But, really, it goes to what omegaseamaster75 is trying to claim -- that if anatess' husband quit cold turkey then it must not have been an addiction or a struggle. That is just a false statement, regardless of whether it was the norm or not. Leah 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mdfxdb Posted August 6, 2014 Report Share Posted August 6, 2014 In fact we throw the word addiction around as if it applies in all case, but it does not. "true" addicts exhibit certain traits and behaviors, which have been discussed on this thread. If you quit something and you defined yourself as "addicted", then I question your diagnosis. Just because someone does something regularly does not make them an addict. Same applies for pornography. For the OP she needs to be very direct with a person she intends to be serious with and ask about their past, their present, and their attitudes towards pornography in general. That is the only way she can make an informed decision. I think as has been previously mentioned here she should seek an RM, someone who is strong in the church. It does not make for any guarantees, but it reduces the chances that there will be problems in the future. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 6, 2014 Report Share Posted August 6, 2014 For the OP she needs to be very direct with a person she intends to be serious with and ask about their past, their present, and their attitudes towards pornography in general. That is the only way she can make an informed decision. I think as has been previously mentioned here she should seek an RM, someone who is strong in the church. It does not make for any guarantees, but it reduces the chances that there will be problems in the future. Unfortunately in my neck of the woods lately, RM does not equate to "strong in the church" anymore. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mdfxdb Posted August 6, 2014 Report Share Posted August 6, 2014 Unfortunately in my neck of the woods lately, RM does not equate to "strong in the church" anymore. saddly, I agree. There is a missionary in our ward right now, who will in the next year and a half have the label RM, and I would never allow my daughter to date him........ It is never a guarantee, all you are doing by dating an RM is increasing the odds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andypg Posted August 6, 2014 Report Share Posted August 6, 2014 Let's say a guy says, "To be honest that is something I have struggled with and have been working every day to overcome and although I currently do not view it, it is a struggle I deal with" would that be acceptable? I've seen too many threads (luckily not on this site) that seem to exclude the atonement and the repentance process from the equation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 6, 2014 Report Share Posted August 6, 2014 Let's say a guy says, "To be honest that is something I have struggled with and have been working every day to overcome and although I currently do not view it, it is a struggle I deal with" would that be acceptable?I've seen too many threads (luckily not on this site) that seem to exclude the atonement and the repentance process from the equation. Depends on the girl. If she's willing to take it on in the marriage, then it would be acceptable. If she' not willing to take it on in the marriage, then it wouldn't be acceptable. She's going to wait for the guy who says - "Sure, the temptation is there... but that struggle has been long done and over with after I grew out of my teens"... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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