Could The Day Come Soon? Will We Be Ready?

[Guest MormonGator]

MG: Beslan, Mumbai, Nairobi.  All were trial runs for the US.  We know this.  Floorplans of US schools were found in the caves of Afghanistan.  Other intel that I can't talk about indicates that you are wrong in your assumption that the US is not a target.  They are making plans and it is a question of when.

 

 You do the math. 

I love math, that's why I love odds. Like I mentioned before, the odds of dying in a terrorist attack on American soil are still quite small. That's why in my opinion I do not believe they warrant excessive militarization of the police department. 

Edited April 17, 2015 by MormonGator

[mirkwood]

That is fine.  Our job is to prepare for such eventualities.  We would be negligent if we did not.

 

 militarization of the police department. 

 

Doesn't exist.

[Guest MormonGator]

 

 

 

Doesn't exist.

This is one of those issues where I hope I'm wrong and you are right.

Edited April 17, 2015 by MormonGator

[yjacket]

I'm not sure I understand what you mean. Was the reaction better or worse in your opinion with Boston than with OKC?  I don't really see how either reaction caused a threat to peace or security. Liberty maybe but was that a bad thing to tell people to stay in till the bombers were found? 

Boston was way worse.  OKC from what I remember the reaction wasn't too bad.  Yes it was a bad thing to tell people to stay in until the bombers were found.  If I'm a businessman, and have meetings to go to and people to see.  I'm on the other side of Boston, yet I'm supposed to be indoors until the thugs are found.  My livelihood, my ability to provide for my family is directly impacted by saying "We are the government, OBEY US, we know what's best".  No you don't.

 

I'm a grown man, I can take care of myself.  I don't need to be treated like a child "oh don't go outdoors, it might be dangerous!!!". But being "locked down"

 

a) it impedes my ability and my liberty to do as I please without harming someone else.

b) It conditions individuals to become accepting of and used to the police and the government as all wise, all knowing, all protecting overlords.

 

What would they have done had they not found the punks that evening, keep the city locked down the next day and the next?  Who is really being punished for this horrible acts?  Millions of people who have absolutely nothing to do with the crime. And yet people acquiesce to it . . .

[yjacket]

That is fine.  Our job is to prepare for such eventualities.  We would be negligent if we did not.

 

 

Doesn't exist.

RFLOL . . .okay.  Maybe we have a problem with definitions.  Militarization of police = using tactics, techniques and procedures (TTPs) that the military uses in certain situations.

 

Room clearing techniques, when stopping for highway stops using attack parking, grenade launchers, tanks, paramilitary gear, possession of weapons that no normal citizen has access to . . .That's not militarization?

 

I guess if you only say militarization meaning that the police is run by the military yeah sure that will probably never happen.  If you say the police becoming a local enforcement mechanism that uses military tactics, yeah it is happening.

[yjacket]

The scary thing of this is that this conversation illustrates why I actually fear my fellow american more than ISIS.

 

If a Boston occurred again and I a private citizen who has no suspicion of a crime decide to go visit grandma when they lock the city down I could be arrested and tried.  Very few here think that there is anything wrong with the lock-down of a city.  Meaning that the Bill of Rights only exists in certain situations, meaning that if the government deemed it necessary the Bill of Rights means absolutely jack.  And who determines when that can occur, the government.  Where was the 4th amendment when SWAT tanks rolled through neighborhoods demanding people to open up and allow the police to search??

 

And how many people if I were arrested would come to my defense and say hey you can't arrest him you have no suspicion of a crime on him. (crickets . . . ).  Most would say to me how dare you disobey and be out, you are a selfish individual for not obeying the government.  You get what you deserve.

 

Hence I fear fellow Americans who have grown accustomed to simply obeying every whim right or wrong of the government.

Edited April 17, 2015 by yjacket

[Palerider]

The scary thing of this is that this conversation illustrates why I actually fear my fellow american more than ISIS.

 

If a Boston occurred again and I a private citizen who has no suspicion of a crime decide to go visit grandma when they lock the city down I could be arrested and tried.  Very few here think that there is anything wrong with the lock-down of a city.  Meaning that the Bill of Rights only exists in certain situations, meaning that if the government deemed it necessary the Bill of Rights means absolutely jack.  And who determines when that can occur, the government.  Where was the 4th amendment when SWAT tanks rolled through neighborhoods demanding people to open up and allow the police to search??

 

And how many people if I were arrested would come to my defense and say hey you can't arrest him you have no suspicion of a crime on him. (crickets . . . ).  Most would say to me how dare you disobey and be out, you are a selfish individual for not obeying the government.  You get what you deserve.

 

Hence I fear fellow Americans who have grown accustomed to simply obeying every whim right or wrong of the government.

We agree on one thing....I fear some of my fellow Americans too.

[yjacket]

We agree on one thing....I fear some of my fellow Americans too.

After my experience yesterday . . . I greatly fear them.  

[pam]

After my experience yesterday . . . I greatly fear them.  

 

Why always the negativity?

[yjacket]

Why always the negativity?

 

When I was growing up 20 years ago (boy I feel like I'm old and I ain't that old), there was a river about a mile from our house.  My sister and I would tell ask our mom for permission to go to the river to play, she said yes and we rode bikes there. We were probably between 8-12.  Plenty of cars passed us (we were always careful to look out for them) and nobody ever stopped us or questioned us.

 

If I did the same thing today with my kids, someone somewhere would call the cops for child endangerment and I'd be arrested.  Look at leaving a child in the car; the smart thing for a citizen to do would be to go into the store make a PSA and find the parent and solve the problem.  Instead the cops get called and turn a minor infraction into a major issue. Or if the citizen is really worried the child my not be breathing take some initiative and break the window.

 

As a citizen we have a lot of responsibility and much of it can be handled without ever needing to call the cops.

 

There is a mentality today that if I see someone doing something out of the ordinary that they are up to no good and the cops need to be called.  See Something Say Something.  And yet crime in this country is at an all time low, crime waves and crime sprees are not spreading all over the country.  Too many people watch CSI, Law & Order, etc. and think oh my goodness xyz is happening it's a little unusual CALL THE COPS.

 

And of course when I was growing up, as a citizen you could talk to the cops if they were called explain the situation and they would listen.  Now they don't listen . . .at all . . . .it is shut up do exactly as I say or I will throw you in jail.

 

It has really changed.

[pam]

 

And of course when I was growing up, as a citizen you could talk to the cops if they were called explain the situation and they would listen.  Now they don't listen . . .at all . . . .it is shut up do exactly as I say or I will throw you in jail.

 

It has really changed.

 

You are putting all cops into the same basket.  Sorry I just haven't had the same experiences with police officers as you have.  In the last 4 years, I've had to call the police so many times that we were on a first name basis with some of them.

 

But they were always polite, respectful and helpful.  

 

I just get so tired of all police officers being lumped into the same category because of a few.  

[Palerider]

You are putting all cops into the same basket.  Sorry I just haven't had the same experiences with police officers as you have.  In the last 4 years, I've had to call the police so many times that we were on a first name basis with some of them.

 

But they were always polite, respectful and helpful.  

 

I just get so tired of all police officers being lumped into the same category because of a few.

One of my son in laws in a Deputy. I knwo there is good and bad employees in all jobs. I don't lump my son in law with the opinion of a bad cop. Interesting that people will bad mouth officers ... They love em when they need one.

[yjacket]

You are putting all cops into the same basket.  Sorry I just haven't had the same experiences with police officers as you have.  In the last 4 years, I've had to call the police so many times that we were on a first name basis with some of them.

 

But they were always polite, respectful and helpful.  

 

I just get so tired of all police officers being lumped into the same category because of a few.  

 

If you are the one who calls them you are fine they will absolutely be polite.  I've called the cops and when I've called them they are fine.  

 

Have you ever had the cops called on you and tried to explain what was going on?  Even if you are completely innocent and a blooming moron could see the explanation is legit. Completely different situation, very aggressive.

Edited April 20, 2015 by yjacket

[Guest MormonGator]

If you are the one who calls them you are fine they will absolutely be polite.  I've called the cops and when I've called them they are fine.  

 

Have you ever had the cops called on you and tried to explain what was going on?  Even if you are completely innocent and a blooming moron could see the explanation is legit. Completely different situation, very aggressive.

The sad truth is that in life it's not about who is right or wrong, often times it's about who tattles first. 

[yjacket]

One of my son in laws in a Deputy. I knwo there is good and bad employees in all jobs. I don't lump my son in law with the opinion of a bad cop. Interesting that people will bad mouth officers ... They love em when they need one.

 

There are good cops . . . I just don't like badge heavy cops.

 

And in my experience when I actually need them to do their job, they don't fix the problem.  I had my house broken into and stove stolen . . ..did they do anything besides write a police report for insurance purposes . . .nope.  Yet they can harass the dickens out of you if someone calls them on you and your explanation is legit, legal and no evidence of a crime.

[yjacket]

The sad truth is that in life it's not about who is right or wrong, often times it's about who tattles first. 

 

Unfortunately, I grew up with this very quaint out-dated idea that regardless of who tattles first one is innocent until proven guilt and one should always have the presumption of innocence.  Unfortunately since 9/11, the Patriot Act, Stop-and-Identity, Stop-and-Frisk laws, the Supreme Court declaring them legal, etc.

 

I need to remember that that quaint idea has been dead for quite a period of time.

[Guest MormonGator]

Unfortunately, I grew up with this very quaint out-dated idea that regardless of who tattles first one is innocent until proven guilt and one should always have the presumption of innocence.  Unfortunately since 9/11, the Patriot Act, Stop-and-Identity, Stop-and-Frisk laws, the Supreme Court declaring them legal, etc.

 

I need to remember that that quaint idea has been dead for quite a period of time.

Add prosecutorial misconduct to the list. Haven't people death row been released when it turns out they were framed by corruption? While this doesn't happen a lot it still happens far too often. 

[Palerider]

There are good cops . . . I just don't like badge heavy cops.

 

And in my experience when I actually need them to do their job, they don't fix the problem.  I had my house broken into and stove stolen . . ..did they do anything besides write a police report for insurance purposes . . .nope.  Yet they can harass the dickens out of you if someone calls them on you and your explanation is legit, legal and no evidence of a crime.

Once again I am done.

[pam]

 

 

Have you ever had the cops called on you and tried to explain what was going on?  Even if you are completely innocent and a blooming moron could see the explanation is legit. Completely different situation, very aggressive.

 

So are you basing your opinion on one circumstance?   Or have you had the cops called on you numerous times?

 

If you are basing this on one particular instance, then you are wrongfully lumping all police officers into the same basket.

[yjacket]

So are you basing your opinion on one circumstance?   Or have you had the cops called on you numerous times?

 

If you are basing this on one particular instance, then you are wrongfully lumping all police officers into the same basket.

When did I say all cops?  I have repeatedly said there are good cops and most of them are good.  And here we go by asking "have you had the cops called on you multiple times" you are insinuating if you haven't done anything wrong why do you have the cops called on you so much.  To answer your question no.

 

Due to a combination of the laws, Supreme Court rulings and the current public mindset (See Something Say Something, if the cops are called presumption of guilt, etc.) I simply mean that unlike when I was growing up one must be extremely cautious and careful when dealing with police and other public individuals; it is a soft police state-make a wrong move (no matter how innocent or justifiable) and you get the wrong guy on the other end (and you never know anymore if you do or don't) and you are in big, big trouble.

 

Unfortunately, what makes the problem even worse is that you are right, there are really, really good cops; unfortunately the cops the do go over the line, are badge heavy, etc. are very rarely if ever prosecuted.  It has to be extremely egregious for the DA to prosecute a cop, thus for bad actor cops (and again not all are bad actors) know they can be pretty rough before being reprimanded.

 

I'm telling you give it about 10-15 years down the road and you might be singing my tune.  People complain about "it" (i.e. a terrorist attack) happening here, they should be more worried about their freedoms being stripped away.

Edited April 20, 2015 by yjacket

[pam]

A couple of people were arrested in my home town of San Diego.

 

http://www.10news.com/news/shock-fear-over-men-arrested-for-terrorism-in-san-diego-and-minneapolis?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=fanpage