Faith And Works

[Traveler]

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Do you feel salvation is an event or a process?

I believe if salvation was an event then Jesus would say he was the place. But since He an I know that it is a process - it is called "The Way". Not by me but by G-d.

It is not a question of worthiness but a question of preparation. Only the 5 (half that waited for the event)were prepared will enter with Christ. If you are through with your preparations I will not argue your choice - but mine is to continue to prepare.

The Traveler

I'm not familiar with where you got what you just said. is that our of the book of mormon. I'm not being smart but i really don't know. If so, could you please explain

Do I have to be a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints to go to heaven?

First - you do not have to be a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints to go to heaven. You do not even have to be a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints to go to church.

I find your question about being prepared very much a surprise. Everything G-d command is intended to prepare us to live with him. In you faith, does no one consider being prepared for Jesus when he comes again? You never think of preparing to live with G-d?

Everything of value or worth requires preparation. If you play a sport it is stupid not to prepare. If you seek a profession it is stupid not to prepare. If you seek a relationship of marriage it is stupid not to prepare - which btw - G-d compares having a relationship with him to that of a marriage.

Good grief - I would not even go out in public with getting prepared and getting dressed. If I was to meet a president or king - I would prepare. And for the King of Heaven - for that I would prepare with great effort. I do not even pray without some preparations. Wow! I find it so interesting that you have never come across the idea of preparation - especially when it comes to G-d and getting to meet him or have a relationship with him. What church do you attend?

But as I live and breath - I learn something new every day. Thank you for your honesty - it is very refreshing.

Also to answer your question. The five that were prepared and five that were not prepared comes from the parable of the 10 vergins - taught by the savior.

The Traveler

[Guest TheLordSaves]

So nothing we do on earth....no service to others, nothing brings us salvation?

What we do on earth proves our salvation. I believe that once your saved you're always saved. But if you're life does not show it then you were probably never even really saved at all. The evidence that we are saved is that we do do good works. It's true that we are being saved as well. If we are not active in our faith, then do we really have faith? However, we can't base our salvation on whether we are worthy in service, preparation, or a sinless life because we will never be worthy in God's eyes. Jesus is the only one worthy, and if we are found in Him then we are found worthy through not of ourselves. As well, remember that the Word of God is a double-edged sword, many of times it has two sides to the same subject working in unity. Daily we have to take up our cross and if one is truly saved, then He will do good works because Christ is in Him. But on the other respect, one could do good works all His life but completely missed salvation, God looks at the heart.

[Doctor Steuss]

Do you feel salvation is an event or a process?

My opinion:

Sanctification is an event. Justification is a process. Salvation is the place where Sanctification and Justification join in perfect harmony.

Edited to add:

On a somewhat side note, the Greek word pistis (the word translated “faith”) has a connotation of fidelity, loyalty and trust. To have pistis in Christ, one must follow Him.

[prisonchaplain]

The colonial era Puritans would work hard and do good in order to prove their Christian character to their neighbors--but never as a means of attaining it. As conservative and industrious as they were, they believed their spiritual state was 100% dependent upon God's mercy and grace.

On the other hand, the sloth or evil-doer was ostracized, because his Christian neighbors might assume that he was not of the Elect--that he had not been chosen for Gods' mercy/grace.

Christianity, properly understod, will result in "Christian character." The discussion is whether we are working AS A RESULT of our salvation, or TOWARDS it.

[Traveler]

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Do I have to be a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints to go to heaven?

Apparently you didn't read one of my earlier posts to that effect.

We must partake of ordinances and covenants to be cleansed, apply Christ's blood to our sinful hearts, and become perfect in Christ.

These ordinances and covenants are had in full within The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. God has also restored through latter-day prophets the priesthood authority necessary to administer these ordinances and covenants.

So if you want to get to the top of the Celestial Kingdom...dwell in God's presence...then you must partake of the required ordinances and covenants and this involves being baptized a member of the LDS Church for starters.

It's not complicated. The short answer to your question is "Yes."

Then why was Joseph surprised when he had a vision of heaven and saw his brother Alvin there? You are right - it is not really complicated but it is a primary reason we LDS build temples. The principle is like unto the atonement of Christ and there are acts of love, compassion and service patterned after Christ but on a much smaller scale.

The point I try to make is that if anyone wants to be in heaven there is a way - regardless of whatever it is in the past G-d and his saints will help and teach anyone that is willing to prepare for heaven.

In essence the things you are talking about will be done by someone else and all the "work" necessary for anyone to get into heaven will be done for everybody. The only thing really necessary is a desire to prepare. I would liken it to playing the panio. All it takes is practice (preparation).

The Traveler

[CrimsonKairos]

Fair enough. I thought you were taking away from the need to participate in ordinances and covenants. I see your point now.