Why do the LDS use the KJV?

[Guest MormonGator]

15 minutes ago, LeSellers said:

As I said, it's not famous in my house.

I've read The Screwtape Letters, Mere Christianity, and a couple of others, but Lewis is not among my go-to guys when the question is, "what shall I read next?"

Lehi

i get it, I get it. You've said it three times now! 

(Totally playing, I get the duplicate posts sometimes too. Total joke)

[jerome1232]

Perhaps it's because I, we, grew up reading the KJV, but I don't find it *that* hard to read. I mostly understand it's archaic english.

Read from it out loud sometime, man, does it sound pretty. It really retains that poetic form better than any other translation I've heard. If it were up to me, Jacobian english would be the new old thing. It sounds great. But maybe that's just because it is archaic.

I find it interesting that wasn't the KJV actually looked down on initially *because* it was easy for the common man to understand?

[tesuji]

The LDS Bible Dictionary says the main reason we use the KJV is because it is better doctrinally than other versions. Other reasons too.

It's good to realize the weaknesses of different translations, and to know something about how we got our Bible.

From the Bible Dictionary:

Quote

With the discovery of more ancient manuscripts not available to the King James translators, many translations of the Bible have been produced since 1900 by Bible scholars. However, based on the doctrinal clarity of latter-day revelation given to Joseph Smith, the Church has held to the King James Version as being doctrinally more accurate than these recent versions. The newer versions are in many instances easier to read but are in some passages doctrinally weaker in their presentation of the gospel. Therefore, the King James Version remains the principal Bible of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.

https://www.lds.org/scriptures/bd/bible?lang=eng&letter=b

Just always remember you are reading a translation. There's nothing wrong with consulting other Bible translations too. They are all just translations.

The ideal: learn ancient Greek, so you can read the original New Testament. And Hebrew for the Old Testament. I'm learning Greek. I know enough so far, that I'm able to look up words and see their original meaning. If you haven't read something in the original language, then in a very real sense you haven't read it.

Edited April 8, 2016 by tesuji

[tesuji]

[double post deleted - sorry]

Edited April 8, 2016 by tesuji

[Guest]

40 minutes ago, tesuji said:

The ideal: learn ancient Greek, so you can read the original New Testament. And Hebrew for the Old Testament. I'm learning Greek. I know enough so far, that I'm able to look up words and see their original meaning. If you haven't read something in the original language, then in a very real sense you haven't read it.

The problem there is also a false sense of security.  The original languages spoken were other than Greek.  The Hebrew originally spoken was also different than the language we see in the Old Testament even in Hebrew.

So, no matter how far back we have records, they're all simply translations of actual spoken word.  That is why revelation must accompany the written word.

[tesuji]

19 minutes ago, Carborendum said:

The problem there is also a false sense of security.  The original languages spoken were other than Greek.  The Hebrew originally spoken was also different than the language we see in the Old Testament even in Hebrew.

So, no matter how far back we have records, they're all simply translations of actual spoken word.  That is why revelation must accompany the written word.

I agree. However, the Greek and Hebrew texts we have are as close as we can get.

We don't have the original Nephite either for the Book of Mormon, but thankfully that was translated by revelation.

From what I understand, Jesus probably spoke Aramaic, which is related to Hebrew. But possibly some Greek too. Paul and the others wrote in Greek.

[LeSellers]

8 hours ago, tesuji said:

Paul and the others wrote in Greek.

No, not all the others, at least not well.

Peter's first epistle was written in good koiné. The consensus is that Mark wrote it as Peter dictated it in Aramaic (his native tongue) and translated it on-the-fly, or perhaps later. His second letter is in much poorer Greek, and the general thought is that he wrote/translated it himself.

As the Apostles spoke Aramaic as their maternal language, even Paul, their letters, gospels, and histories were likely written in Aramaic first and translated, either by the original writer or by another in his retinue.

Whether Jesus spoke Greek: I am agnostic. It doesn't matter much. We do know that He used Aramaic in His ministry. There are several examples of His using it because the gospel writer translated the Aramaic into Greek (as with His words on the cross).

Lehi

Edited April 8, 2016 by LeSellers

[Vort]

7 hours ago, tesuji said:

The ideal: learn ancient Greek, so you can read the original New Testament.

Note that New Testament Greek was not the classical Greek of Plato and Homer. It was a simplified Greek, called Koine, used primarily by foreigners and Greek expats.

[Guest MormonGator]

41 minutes ago, LeSellers said:

 

Whether Jesus spoke Greek: I am agnostic. It doesn't matter much.

  It doesn't, but it's sort of cool. Being from a slightly educated class I think He at least understood it. 

[LeSellers]

9 minutes ago, MormonGator said:

  It doesn't, but it's sort of cool. Being from a slightly educated class I think He at least understood it. 

I'm not so sure He was "from a slightly educated class". His step father was one of the high tech workers of the day. Joseph had money. I believe He was educated. Further, Nazareth was near a Roman trading town, where Greek would have been a ligua franca, which would have spilled into His hometown.

Lehi

[Guest MormonGator]

8 minutes ago, LeSellers said:

I'm not so sure He was "from a slightly educated class". His step father was one of the high tech workers of the day. Joseph had money. I believe He was educated. Further, Nazareth was near a Roman trading town, where Greek would have been a ligua franca, which would have spilled into His hometown.

Lehi

Slightly upper class than. The bible does talk about Him "learning". 

[LeSellers]

9 minutes ago, MormonGator said:

  It doesn't, but it's sort of cool. Being from a slightly educated class I think He at least understood it. 

I'm not so sure He was "from a slightly educated class". His step father was one of the high tech workers of the day. Joseph had money. I believe He was educated. Further, Nazareth was near a Roman trading town, where Greek would have been a ligua franca, which would have spilled into His hometown.

Lehi

[Guest MormonGator]

12 minutes ago, LeSellers said:

I'm not so sure He was "from a slightly educated class". His step father was one of the high tech workers of the day. Joseph had money. I believe He was educated. Further, Nazareth was near a Roman trading town, where Greek would have been a ligua franca, which would have spilled into His hometown.

Lehi

Fine, slightly upper class than. Joseph was a highly skilled worker. The bible does talk about Him "learning". 

Edited April 8, 2016 by MormonGator

[Just_A_Guy]

It's deja vu all over again!

[Just_A_Guy]

It's deja vu all over again!

[Vort]

30 minutes ago, Just_A_Guy said:

It's deja vu all over again!

I was hoping for that second one.

[Vort]

30 minutes ago, Just_A_Guy said:

It's deja vu all over again!

I wasn't hoping for that second one.

[Guest MormonGator]

9 minutes ago, Vort said:

I wasn't hoping for that second one.

This is getting very meta. 

[Steve Noel]

On 4/8/2016 at 10:12 AM, tesuji said:

The ideal: learn ancient Greek, so you can read the original New Testament. And Hebrew for the Old Testament. I'm learning Greek. I know enough so far, that I'm able to look up words and see their original meaning. If you haven't read something in the original language, then in a very real sense you haven't read it.

I have a little bit of training in biblical Greek. I can read the words, but I don't have enough vocabulary memorized to read the sentences. I am trying to get back into studying it myself. I would like to be able to read the Greek NT devotionally someday.

[tesuji]

15 hours ago, Steve Noel said:

I have a little bit of training in biblical Greek. I can read the words, but I don't have enough vocabulary memorized to read the sentences. I am trying to get back into studying it myself. I would like to be able to read the Greek NT devotionally someday.

I'm at about the same level as you in Greek.

I found this awesome tool with the Greek text, and when you click on a word it gives you the grammar and meaning of that word. I'm using it to work through John now. No looking up words or anything:
http://biblewebapp.com/study/

[Steve Noel]

2 hours ago, tesuji said:

I'm at about the same level as you in Greek.

I found this awesome tool with the Greek text, and when you click on a word it gives you the grammar and meaning of that word. I'm using it to work through John now. No looking up words or anything:
http://biblewebapp.com/study/

That is a nice find. Thanks.