cdowis Posted May 31, 2016 Report Share Posted May 31, 2016 (edited) I really need to read the scriptures daily, but you know how that is. But my son discovered a way to guarantee that I will do it EVERY DAY. Each time I miss a day, I give a contribution to a nonprofit organization. Now, if this were the Boy Scouts, no bid deal, BUT I have chosen Planned Parenthood to make my contribution! Wow!! Five bucks for each time I miss. Here is their phone number 800-798-7092 Anyway, my wife monitors my compliance so that I don't cheat. I started a week ago, and so far, so good. Perhaps I should put their number on speed dial. Edited May 31, 2016 by cdowis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest LiterateParakeet Posted May 31, 2016 Report Share Posted May 31, 2016 (edited) That is motivation all right! Edited May 31, 2016 by LiterateParakeet Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeuroTypical Posted May 31, 2016 Report Share Posted May 31, 2016 Heh - I've heard about this. Painful consequences as a behavior modification tool. I know one guy trying to fix his part in marriage issues, who wrote out two $100 checks to Hillary in one week. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zil Posted May 31, 2016 Report Share Posted May 31, 2016 I would rather read the scriptures because I love them than because I despise the consequences of not reading them. theSQUIDSTER 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeuroTypical Posted May 31, 2016 Report Share Posted May 31, 2016 (edited) Doesn't have to be either-or. "I love the scriptures. I stink at reading them regularly. Solution: Develop habit. Tool to develop habit = painful consequence." (At least, that's the theory.) Edited May 31, 2016 by NeuroTypical Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theSQUIDSTER Posted May 31, 2016 Report Share Posted May 31, 2016 I know this is just a humorous post, but what happens when you do actually miss a day or three of scripture reading? Sending a check to PP? Really? Wow... I can't think of a more apt example of trying to make a RIGHT out of TWO wrongs... Perhaps you need to rethink this just a little...? Neuro, it may be more either- or than you think... For example, I love my wife, but don't show her enough... Or with enough sincerity.. I think what I really need to DO is to work on this whole sincerity issue. As soon as I've figured out how to fake THAT then I'll have this whole darn dilemma figured out! LeSellers 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vort Posted May 31, 2016 Report Share Posted May 31, 2016 4 hours ago, zil said: I would rather read the scriptures because I love them than because I despise the consequences of not reading them. I am sure we all would. But each of us must start where s/he is standing at the moment. zil and NeuroTypical 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zil Posted May 31, 2016 Report Share Posted May 31, 2016 4 hours ago, NeuroTypical said: Doesn't have to be either-or. "I love the scriptures. I stink at reading them regularly. Solution: Develop habit. Tool to develop habit = painful consequence." (At least, that's the theory.) 21 minutes ago, theSQUIDSTER said: I know this is just a humorous post, but what happens when you do actually miss a day or three of scripture reading? Sending a check to PP? Really? Wow... I can't think of a more apt example of trying to make a RIGHT out of TWO wrongs... Perhaps you need to rethink this just a little...? Neuro, it may be more either- or than you think... For example, I love my wife, but don't show her enough... Or with enough sincerity.. I think what I really need to DO is to work on this whole sincerity issue. As soon as I've figured out how to fake THAT then I'll have this whole darn dilemma figured out! 2 minutes ago, Vort said: I am sure we all would. But each of us must start where s/he is standing at the moment. My point, simply, was that I think a positive approach, doing what I need to do to learn to _love_ the scriptures, might produce better results than training myself to loath to consequences of not reading (and thereby linking scripture reading (even in the failure thereof) to something negative). Instead of punishment for failure, how about reward for success? (And, as Squidster pointed out, two wrongs don't make a right - at least make the penalty something good - e.g. increase your fast offering that month until it hurts.) theSQUIDSTER 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zil Posted May 31, 2016 Report Share Posted May 31, 2016 But, OK, I'm going to confess: the older I get, the more I question the sincerity of my "love" for good things I don't do. I do the things I want to do - that seems clear to me. That there are good things I don't yet love is true, and I think I will be more successful at learning to love them if I freely admit that I don't (yet). Perhaps other people don't have the sincerity problem, only the execution problem, but I find I have no execution problem when my desire is sincere, and when my desire is lacking, I have execution problems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MormonGator Posted May 31, 2016 Report Share Posted May 31, 2016 5 hours ago, zil said: I would rather read the scriptures because I love them than because I despise the consequences of not reading them. Motives are irrelevant Zil. When I donate to charity or volunteer at a soup kitchen I do it for a very selfish reason. It makes me feel better about myself. Do you think the hungry person getting dinner cares why I'm there? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeuroTypical Posted May 31, 2016 Report Share Posted May 31, 2016 I find it interesting to see the polarized opinions here. This seems to be a People of Ammon/Stripling Warriors moment. How cool is it, that the church's tent is broad enough to cover us all! I'm still this guy. zil, NeedleinA and theSQUIDSTER 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zil Posted May 31, 2016 Report Share Posted May 31, 2016 (edited) 6 minutes ago, MormonGator said: Motives are irrelevant Zil. When I donate to charity or volunteer at a soup kitchen I do it for a very selfish reason. It makes me feel better about myself. Do you think the hungry person getting dinner cares why I'm there? I know you think this, and I understand that the recipient of a good deed doesn't (and needn't) care. But I think the scriptures make it quite clear that God does care. Edited May 31, 2016 by zil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MormonGator Posted May 31, 2016 Report Share Posted May 31, 2016 1 minute ago, zil said: I know you think this, and I understand that the recipient of a good deed doesn't (and needn't care). But I think the scriptures make it quite clear that God does care. Belive me, it would be nice if we did everything through love and kindness but life doesn't work that way. That's partially why communism failed. I know of a successful businessman who was asked if he would ever do business with someone who was "unethical". The businessman said "I'd like to say no, but it's not always like that." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zil Posted May 31, 2016 Report Share Posted May 31, 2016 2 minutes ago, MormonGator said: Belive me, it would be nice if we did everything through love and kindness but life doesn't work that way. That's partially why communism failed. I know of a successful businessman who was asked if he would ever do business with someone who was "unethical". The businessman said "I'd like to say no, but it's not always like that." Hence the gospel, teaching us not only to do better, but to think better, and ultimately to desire better. Again, there are multiple places in scripture which make it clear that our desire - the intent of our heart - matters. I'm not saying "don't do what works for you" - I'm suggesting that one consider a more positive approach to self-discipline and discipleship. But if the only thing that works for you right now is punishment for failure, then do it, just don't let it make you hate doing good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeuroTypical Posted May 31, 2016 Report Share Posted May 31, 2016 Brother Brigham would approve of Cdowis' plan, I think. I've always loved his discourse on using force to subdue your sinful nature. Many men will say they have a violent temper, and try to excuse themselves for actions of which they are ashamed. I will say, there is not a man in this house who has a more indomitable and unyielding temper than myself. But there is not a man in the world who cannot overcome his passion, if he will struggle earnestly to do so. If you find passion coming on you, go off to some place where you cannot be heard; let none of your family see you or hear you, while it is upon you, but struggle till it leaves you; and pray for strength to overcome. As I have said many times to the Elders, pray in your families; and if, when the time for prayer comes, you have not the spirit of prayer upon you, and your knees are unwilling to bow, say to them, “Knees, get down there”; make them bend, and remain there until you obtain the Spirit of the Lord. If the spirit yields to the body, it becomes corrupt; but if the body yields to the spirit it becomes pure and holy (DBY, 267). theSQUIDSTER 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeSellers Posted May 31, 2016 Report Share Posted May 31, 2016 2 hours ago, MormonGator said: Motives are irrelevant Zil. When I donate to charity or volunteer at a soup kitchen I do it for a very selfish reason. It makes me feel better about myself. Do you think the hungry person getting dinner cares why I'm there? I maintain that there is no such thing as true altruism: even Christ did His Father's will because He felt better about it (as opposed to doing anything else). Lehi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theSQUIDSTER Posted June 2, 2016 Report Share Posted June 2, 2016 (edited) On 5/31/2016 at 4:30 PM, LeSellers said: I maintain that there is no such thing as true altruism: even Christ did His Father's will because He felt better about it (as opposed to doing anything else). Lehi Hmmmm... I dunno Lehi... It sure seems like the atonement was at least a little bit altruistic... ... but I haven't performed an atonement just yet... nor have you or any of the rest of us .. only One among us did that... so perhaps your point stands for the rest of us... Edited June 2, 2016 by theSQUIDSTER added a little more commentary Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theSQUIDSTER Posted June 2, 2016 Report Share Posted June 2, 2016 On 5/31/2016 at 1:52 PM, NeuroTypical said: Brother Brigham would approve of Cdowis' plan, I think. I've always loved his discourse on using force to subdue your sinful nature. Many men will say they have a violent temper, and try to excuse themselves for actions of which they are ashamed. I will say, there is not a man in this house who has a more indomitable and unyielding temper than myself. But there is not a man in the world who cannot overcome his passion, if he will struggle earnestly to do so. If you find passion coming on you, go off to some place where you cannot be heard; let none of your family see you or hear you, while it is upon you, but struggle till it leaves you; and pray for strength to overcome. As I have said many times to the Elders, pray in your families; and if, when the time for prayer comes, you have not the spirit of prayer upon you, and your knees are unwilling to bow, say to them, “Knees, get down there”; make them bend, and remain there until you obtain the Spirit of the Lord. If the spirit yields to the body, it becomes corrupt; but if the body yields to the spirit it becomes pure and holy (DBY, 267) Brother Brigham wasn't sending himself to his room to punish himself though... He was retiring to a secret place to repent... or to struggle against his natural man and subdue him. That's a little harder than just trying to persuade yourself by coming up with your own clever punishments for your sins. Sin is its OWN "reward" or punishment... which is the gall of bitterness and the bonds of iniquity. Repentance is not punishing yourself, it's turning to God. The problem with punishing yourself is the natural man tendency to sometimes reach the conclusion that your own self-contrived/conceived punishment is somehow enough... which it isn't. Only repentance is enough when the Lord and sometimes designated judge in Israel tells you through the spirit of revelation that it's enough. zil 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeSellers Posted June 2, 2016 Report Share Posted June 2, 2016 42 minutes ago, theSQUIDSTER said: On 5/31/2016 at 5:30 PM, LeSellers said: I maintain that there is no such thing as true altruism: even Christ did His Father's will because He felt better about it (as opposed to doing anything else). Hmmmm... I dunno Lehi... It sure seems like the atonement was at least a little bit altruistic... It depends on one's definition of "altruism". If it's self sacrifice with absolutely no benefit to the sacrifice, then there is no such thing, not even the Atonement, because Christ not only got back something, and anticipated getting it back, He got everything back, although He may not have known in advance (on this earth) that He would. The thing He got back, and anticipated getting back, was the pleasure of doing His Father's will, and He reified His calling as the Savior, Lord and God. That'a quite a bit to receive. If it includes any self sacrifice, then it's even less likely (negative) because nearly all self sacrifice comes with the knowledge of a benefit to be received: fathers and others sacrifice their lives for their children because they want their children to live and succeed, and they benefit (at least mentally) by the act itself. It's impossible to meet the requirement of altruism if, even a tiny bit, there is anything received in return. The universe doesn't work that way. Lehi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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