Gary Johnson comments on Religious Freedom

[Traveler]

This is a most interesting thread.  It is interesting to me because of how personal understanding of agency seem to spill over into individual understanding of liberty, freedom and the Law.  I would ask one simple question – Does a celestial being have any right or choice to withhold service, kindness, love and compassion form anyone?  Anyone? – Including butt heads, idiot and unrepentant sinners?  

 

The Traveler

[Guest]

On 8/7/2016 at 10:11 AM, Traveler said:

This is a most interesting thread.  It is interesting to me because of how personal understanding of agency seem to spill over into individual understanding of liberty, freedom and the Law.  I would ask one simple question – Does a celestial being have any right or choice to withhold service, kindness, love and compassion form anyone?  Anyone? – Including butt heads, idiot and unrepentant sinners?  

 

The Traveler

Traveler,

I'm having difficulty making the connection between this thread an you question or even what it has to do with agency.  What, exactly, is your point?

[LeSellers]

On 8/7/2016 at 9:11 AM, Traveler said:

Does a celestial being have any right or choice to withhold service, kindness, love and compassion form anyone?

Yes, he has the right. Otherwise, those buttheads, etc., would have the right to service, kindness, etc. One cannot give something to someone if that person has the right to it.

Lehi

[Traveler]

 

There are various problems with the discussion of this thread that I hoped to address.  First is the Freedom of Religion that is very different than freedom of Belief.   No one does anything that they do not believe that for whatever reason is okay for them to do.  

What are we free to believe and say?  Do we really have freedom of speech?  For example are we free to lie. (One might think so concerning running for political office).  If there are just consequences are we really free – especially if you do not comprehend the consequences?

If we become Celestial – it will be so by covenant.  I do not believe it will be any different than entering into a covenant of mortgage to live by payments according to the covenant.  One cannot be Celestial and not obedient to covenants.  There is no choice to serve or not to serve because that is counter and exclusive to the choice of being Celestial.

I also think there is a problem with many of my political liberal friends that think everyone makes judgements and thinks as they do.  As an example they do not understand that Mormons believe in homering obeying and sustaining the law.  They only believe in honoring obeying and sustaining laws they like so they assume everybody else will act as they do – they do not understand honesty and obligation to higher principles.

 

The Traveler

[prisonchaplain]

On ‎8‎/‎2‎/‎2016 at 4:48 PM, MormonGator said:

http://www.sltrib.com/news/4183208-155/libertarian-gary-johnsons-comments-on-religious#sthash.YOg2I7kq.gbpl&st_refDomain=www.facebook.com&st_refQuery=/

This year...an obnoxiously awful election is taking place. I strongly support the 2-party system, yet am tempted by a palatable 3rd-party option. Along comes Johnson, speaks to the issue that is nearest to my heart--and totally crushes any attraction I might have mustered. Nope...I'm still stuck with the candidate who hates conservative religious people and the one who disrespects us, but is willing to throw us the "bone" of a decent SCOTUS nominee.  :::sigh:::

[Guest MormonGator]

4 minutes ago, prisonchaplain said:

This year...an obnoxiously awful election is taking place. I strongly support the 2-party system, yet am tempted by a palatable 3rd-party option. Along comes Johnson, speaks to the issue that is nearest to my heart--and totally crushes any attraction I might have mustered. Nope...I'm still stuck with the candidate who hates conservative religious people and the one who disrespects us, but is willing to throw us the "bone" of a decent SCOTUS nominee.  :::sigh:::

So I can count you down as a Hillary voter, right? 

 

(just kidding PC)  
 

[prisonchaplain]

On ‎8‎/‎4‎/‎2016 at 7:30 PM, LiterateParakeet said:

This article made me feel better..guardedly so, but I'll take it. 

http://beta.deseretnews.com/article/865659254/EXCLUSIVE-Gary-Johnson-Religious-freedom-and-non-discrimination-laws.html

If he declares opposition to California's threat to revoke religious exemptions for 40+ faith-based colleges, forcing them to radically alter the religious learning communities they have created, in the name of non-discrimination, THEN "I'll take it."  This issue is too vital, and no candidate makes me comfortable.  BUT again, one has promised conservative SCOTUS nominees, recommended by Heritage Foundation.  It's a skimpy bone, but at this point...I'll take it...coughing and wheezing.

[prisonchaplain]

10 minutes ago, MormonGator said:

So I can count you down as a Hillary voter, right? 

 

(just kidding PC)  
 

I should not have read this, while eating in my office, alone. 

Still, after self-Heimlich, I'll respond by asking, in sincerity, why liberal Christians like HRC have such hatred for our country's Judeo-Christian heritage? She recently said that our Constitutional rights were always intended to imply that government could enact "reasonable restrictions." I'm wondering if she had in mind the likes of the University of Houston's student VP, who was just suspended for saying "#alllivesmatter?" Or, perhaps it is the 40+ California colleges. Then again, she recently said we Christians are going to HAVE TO change our views on abortion.

I was tempted to respond, "What? Are you gonna make us?" (said in silly, high school sophomore intonation). The problem is, I now believe (truly--no sarcasm) that her answer would be, "YES!" 

[Guest MormonGator]

7 minutes ago, prisonchaplain said:

I should not have read this, while eating in my office, alone. 

Still, after self-Heimlich, I'll respond by asking, in sincerity, why liberal Christians like HRC have such hatred for our country's Judeo-Christian heritage? She recently said that our Constitutional rights were always intended to imply that government could enact "reasonable restrictions." I'm wondering if she had in mind the likes of the University of Houston's student VP, who was just suspended for saying "#alllivesmatter?" Or, perhaps it is the 40+ California colleges. Then again, she recently said we Christians are going to HAVE TO change our views on abortion.

I was tempted to respond, "What? Are you gonna make us?" (said in silly, high school sophomore intonation). The problem is, I now believe (truly--no sarcasm) that her answer would be, "YES!" 

So that's a maybe then. Okay, I'll let her know. 

 

@mirkwood just put a bumper sticker of hers on his car. It's right near his ACLU one. 

Edited August 9, 2016 by MormonGator

[prisonchaplain]

Oh no...no I can't drive my POV when I'm on company business--Hatch Act, and all.  :::sigh:::

[LeSellers]

1 hour ago, prisonchaplain said:

I'll respond by asking, in sincerity, why liberal Christians like HRC have such hatred for our country's Judeo-Christian heritage?

You asked a similar question earlier, and the answer is the same:
Government doesn't want us to have any gods before it.

Hilary is the quintessential power-hungry beast who wants all the power, and all the glory for herself. One wonders how anyone could mistake her for a Christian, liberal or otherwise.

Lehi

[MurphyGal]

I am from New Mexico. Gary Johnson isn't even much of a Libertarian. Libertarians believe in small government and lots and lots of liberty. When Johnson was Governor, he increased the size of the state government by over 50% and increased budget spending by 240%!!!! For those of you who don't know, New Mexico is the second poorest state in the United States (poorest is Mississippi). Now, I realize that he is free to make the choice to have been a long-time pothead (he said he just recently stopped and would not smoke as President...now THERE'S a campaign promise, eh?) BUT, marijuana has been shown to be very debilitating to cognitive functioning and memory. I am dismayed (if it is true) that so many in Utah would support Johnson, who is a big spender, NOT a libertarian in deed and has many socialist beliefs and goals.

[Guest]

3 hours ago, prisonchaplain said:

... I'll respond by asking, in sincerity, why liberal Christians like HRC have such hatred for our country's Judeo-Christian heritage? ...

She's a liberal WHAT?

I'd seriously ask the question:  If she were ever accused of being a Christian, would there be enough evidence to convict her?

[prisonchaplain]

Hillary Clinton self-identifies as a Methodist Christian. So, I will hold her to that standard. 

[LeSellers]

8 hours ago, prisonchaplain said:

Hillary Clinton self-identifies as a Methodist Christian. So, I will hold her to that standard. 

Now, if only she'd hold herself to that (or any) standard.

For most politicians, and especially progressive politicians, the only standard they adhere to is the double standard.

Lehi

[Guest]

On 8/9/2016 at 10:33 PM, prisonchaplain said:

Hillary Clinton self-identifies as a Methodist Christian. So, I will hold her to that standard. 

Ok.  I guess that's fair.  But at some point, when do the words no longer hold meaning?

[prisonchaplain]

When the politician realizes that it is more advantageous to quite pretending. Have we not been commanded not to attempt to separate the wheat and tare too early?  :-)

[Guest MormonGator]

1 hour ago, Carborendum said:

Ok.  I guess that's fair.  But at some point, when do the words no longer hold meaning?

To it me it's best to think pragmatically on this. Something like "She' a sorry excuse for a Christian but at least she is a Christian." And in fairness to her, you don't know if she has accepted Christ or not. That's between her and Christ. 

 

[LeSellers]

3 hours ago, MormonGator said:

And in fairness to her, you don't know if she has accepted Christ or not. That's between her and Christ.

By their fruits ye shall know them. I read that somewhere, and it seems fitting.

Lehi

[Blackmarch]

On 8/7/2016 at 9:11 AM, Traveler said:

This is a most interesting thread.  It is interesting to me because of how personal understanding of agency seem to spill over into individual understanding of liberty, freedom and the Law.  I would ask one simple question – Does a celestial being have any right or choice to withhold service, kindness, love and compassion form anyone?  Anyone? – Including butt heads, idiot and unrepentant sinners?  

 

The Traveler

If they haven't promised any, they are not required to... however my understanding is that a celestial person will not have the want to deny people blessings, even their enemies. Such would hinge more on laws that are in place and promises and things of that nature.