Does morality require a god?

[unixknight]

19 hours ago, Traveler said:

Part of the problem, it would seem, is that you are not clear concerning the difference between what constitutes evidence and what constitutes proof.

That one is incredibly common.  The thing is, "proof" is not a word scientists use.  If you want "proof" then look to mathematics where things are provable.  In science, it's about evidence and interpretation of data. 

When you're in a debate over a scientific matter and your opponent uses the word "proof" then what they're expressing is scientific dogmatism, not properly applied scientific methods.

[Guest]

30 minutes ago, unixknight said:

That one is incredibly common.  The thing is, "proof" is not a word scientists use.  If you want "proof" then look to mathematics where things are provable.  In science, it's about evidence and interpretation of data. 

When you're in a debate over a scientific matter and your opponent uses the word "proof" then what they're expressing is scientific dogmatism, not properly applied scientific methods.

Well, what is interesting about mathematical proofs is that anything in math is not considered reality anyway.  All of the proofs end up being theorems and theories.  Nothing mathematical is considered a reality because numbers themselves are an abstract concept.  So, the only thing provable is in an idealized abstract concept that is not real to begin with.

[theSQUIDSTER]

2 hours ago, Carborendum said:

Well, what is interesting about mathematical proofs is that anything in math is not considered reality anyway.  All of the proofs end up being theorems and theories.  Nothing mathematical is considered a reality because numbers themselves are an abstract concept.  So, the only thing provable is in an idealized abstract concept that is not real to begin with.

Funny, how when you try to follow these things to their source, what you wind up with is still something that looks a lot like faith.  You choose what you believe, what you put your faith in.  For all those who ridicule faith and say, "you believe in fairy-tales that can't be proved..." NOTHING can technically be "proved."  Everything is based upon assumptions:  if this, then this logically follows.. or, if this is true, then this can be "proven" ... but there always seems to be an "if this is true" at the root of every theorem.

Everything is filtered through our imperfect and improvable perceptions.  In the end, we have to choose what we believe, who and what we trust enough to believe, and even what we believe we "know" based upon what we've experienced.  I believe this is all be design.  Our Father wants us to have to exercise faith and our agency.  It's one of the main reasons for mortality and the veil ... Faith and agency are crucial to our growth.  I can't "prove" this to anyone else but I do know it to be true.  It's where I put my trust.  It's what I choose to hold on to.  It's my testimony.

Edited August 16, 2016 by theSQUIDSTER
clarity.. typos

[CV75]

On 8/9/2016 at 10:50 PM, EricE said:

.

Not sure why the OP disappeared, but the reference point for a secular moral code would function as a "secular god" for that set of standards.

[Guest]

36 minutes ago, CV75 said:

Not sure why the OP disappeared, but the reference point for a secular moral code would function as a "secular god" for that set of standards.

That's kind of what I said.  The reason the OP disappeared is that he deleted the text.  I guess that was his way of declaring he was done.  His loss.

[Guest MormonGator]

2 hours ago, CV75 said:

Not sure why the OP disappeared,

This is why. It's because he's a clone of this guy. The famous internet atheist meme. Atheists can be wonderful people , and we all know several that are. But too many of them think they can "debunk everything that believers think" just because they are so much smarter then the rest of us. They fail to comprehend that we've been thinking about the same things they have been for years.  

Edited August 18, 2016 by MormonGator

[NeedleinA]

On 8/18/2016 at 9:35 AM, CV75 said:

Not sure why the OP disappeared,

Not only has the OP disappeared, some of the account information has disappeared and he also removed his Facebook references to this discussion. He has basically gone silent. On a different note, here is a video I enjoy:

 

Edited August 19, 2016 by NeedleinA

[EricE]

@NeedleinA Just nothing else to add on this particular thread. Don't know what you mean about Facebook, though. I still see everything. 

[NeedleinA]

4 minutes ago, EricE said:

@NeedleinA Just nothing else to add on this particular thread. Don't know what you mean about Facebook, though. I still see everything. 

Sure, sure. I figured you were still here lurking in the background watching Mr. Ethington.
With Love,
Mr. Troll

[NeedleinA]

dup

Edited August 19, 2016 by NeedleinA

[Guest Godless]

2 hours ago, NeedleinA said:

Sure, sure. I figured you were still here lurking in the background watching Mr. Ethington.
With Love,
Mr. Troll

The initial reference to his FB page probably alerted him to the fact that he needed to change his privacy settings. 

[tesuji]

Quote

I bear witness of religion being the principle ingredient—not the only, but the principle ingredient—that has kept Western social, political, and cultural life moral to the extent these have been moral. And I shudder at how immoral life might have been then and now without it. Looking at least at American history, other men wiser than I have shuddered as well.

Jeffery R. Holland, BYU address this past week

 

[CV75]

20 hours ago, NeedleinA said:

Not only has the OP disappeared, some of the account information has disappeared and he also removed his Facebook references to this discussion. He has basically gone silent. On a different note, here is a video I enjoy

I'm speechless! :)