How Depressing

[Snow]

For a few years we have been hearing from the critics about how the LDS Church caused depression. Recently our very own little Trident has made similar absurd allegations saying that Mormon behavior was driven by fear.

It is pretty well known that Utah usually has the highest or one of the highest anti-depressant usage rates in the country. This immediately leads the low brain wattage types to suppose that Mormons, specifically Mormon women, are more depressed than other woman and it is the Church that is causing it. It is not too difficult for anyone with a brain that functions properly to understand that high medication usage does not automatically equate with high disease states (although no one ever accused our anti-Mormon critics of having properly functioning brains). So why would Utah have high anti-depressant rates if it isn't the Church that leads to depression. Maybe it's the weather, maybe it that the doctors have different prescribing patterns; there are lots of possibilities.

Now comes word that LDS woman, in fact, are not more depressed than their non-LDS national counterparts.

Study elevates LDS women

They're not a sad and depressed lot, Y. researcher says

By Carrie A. Moore

Deseret Morning News

A local researcher has good news for LDS women: They are less likely to be depressed than American women in general and show no major differences in overall life satisfaction compared to women nationwide.

But they do score lower on measures of self-esteem.

The findings poke some holes in the long-standing stereotype of LDS women as being more depressed, according to Sherrie Mills Johnson, a sociologist at LDS Church-owned Brigham Young University. Speaking Thursday during the semiannual meeting of the Association of Mormon Counselors and Psychotherapists (AMCAP), Johnson said attempts to tie LDS women's religiosity to increased levels of depression simply don't hold up under research scrutiny.... (see link for entire article)

http://deseretnews.com/dn/view/0,1249,5950...5053226,00.html

But you know, heaven forbid that the critics should bother to look into it before criticizing.

[Maureen]

It was an interesting article. I know 2 of my LDS SIL's have experienced depression. I do not know if the other LDS women that I personally know have ever had depression. When I have been at a few LDS women activities, gossiping about who is having problems with depression seems to be common.

Relying on claims from early social scientists that the conservative faith's demands are "constraining and that LDS women are discouraged from pursuing careers and other courses that bring satisfaction and provide for mental well-being, these discussions depict depression as a pervasive problem" among LDS women.

Yet Johnson said the most significant finding of her study was that "increased religiosity predicted increased life satisfaction and mental well-being."

My one SIL seems to resemble the above statement in the fact that she is a very intelligent person and has chosen to be a stay-at-home mom and I think it drives her crazy sometimes. So she spends a lot of time doing church activities, which actually takes her away from her family. But I think she likes it that way.

M.

[AFDaw]

This is just a WILD WILD WILD guess. But what about post partum depression? That's very common among woman period. And since probably LDS woman are having more children, they may be experiencing PPD?

Just a thought. Flame away.

[Guest TheProudDuck]

AF -- That's actually a pretty good point. I think another factor may be the fact that LDS women don't drink coffee. Caffeine, like it or not, does a pretty good job at picking people up. Most anti-depressant prescription drugs include stimulants, so it may be that Utah women are using prescription drugs to get the same effect other women get from coffee.

[Guest Starsky]

Well, I was a stay at home mom, and I chose to write books. I can't see that staying at home is an all or nothing proposition.

I have seen some women feel like they must have more children than they can comfortably handle...and that could be a cause for depression/feeling overwhelmed and a failure at times.

I think we all just have to step back, take a good look at ourselves and really decide what we feel is right for us....and not compare ourselves with what we think is someone else's 'success' or what they interpret the church's desire for them.

I think it is the church/sisters as it is culture, expectations and pressures just like our youth who are in a school culture....and being endanger of taking drugs or going wild.

What I am trying to say is....we are adults. We have tools given to us through the gospel to gain our own paths...within the gifts and talents and strengths the Lord gave us.

We shouldn't feel pressured to do something that won't be beneficial to our families, any more than a youth should allow pressure to decide for him to take drugs.

Because if we aren't true to ourselves and the inner whisperings of the Spirit 'just' for us....we will fail...we can't be Betty down the street...if we try....we end up failing and becoming despondant.

On the other hand...if we are Betty down the street, we shouldn't go about acting like we have the upper road and everyone who doesn't live up to what she says is the standard....they are a failure...

I have an older sister who can do anything, everything, and energy unlimited.

I can't be her. Few can. The Lord's gift to me wasn't an abundance of energy. I have to be very choosy about what I will use my limited energies for. (I have a heart murmur and low blood pressure)

I also have talents which accomadate this physical state of mine. I have writing talents, a photographic memory, and can understand doctrines and languages she wouldn't even consider trying to learn or understand.

My sister's works are physical works, creative physical works, serving physical works. She was given an abundance of energy to accomplish what the Lord asks of her....and He gives me an abundance of my gifts to accomplish what He asks of me.

The problems arise, in every walk of life, when the individuals stop seeking who they are, how they can fulfill their full measure of creation according to the plan of the Lord...and start trying to be like or compete with Betty down the street.

I think it is very sad....

Wake up and seek your errand from the Lord or the universe...then go forth and fulfill it with all the energy given you.

IOW arise and stand forth in YOUR place.

If you did that, whether LDS or athiest, you would not need antidepressants.

[Jenda]

Starsky, every time I see your avatar, I think Tao is posting. Then when I read "I was a stay at home mom ..........." it just blows my mind. This is just getting weirder and weirder.

[Tr2]

a sociologist at LDS Church-owned Brigham Young University

Wonder how much she was paid to come up with the "conclusions" of that study?

[serapha]

Hi there!

It would be important to know the type of depressions that was being treated for an accurate statement to be issued.

http://www.psychologyinfo.com/depression/d...sion_types.html

The important point is that those that need help, find help. Sometimes God seems to heal the person from depression, other times, it appears that God has just left the depressed person on his/her own and at the mercy of the medications.

~serapha~

[Snow]

Originally posted by Tr2@Apr 2 2004, 06:20 PM

a sociologist at LDS Church-owned Brigham Young University

Wonder how much she was paid to come up with the "conclusions" of that study?

Meaning that you think she fabricated her results for pay. You're full of it.... or do you have proof.

No?

Didn't think so. All talk and no evidence, ever.

[Tr2]

An employee of the mormon church coming up with a study that tries to discredit a long known string of depression in mormons.

snowball, once again you fail to live in the same world that the rest of us do. There is a clear conflict of interest that goes to the credibility of the study. Put a study like into the hands of somebody that the mormon church doesn't have the ability to hurt if the results are not what they want them to be.

If the roles were reversed you'd be saying the same thing, so save your opinions for somebody who wants to hear them.

[Cal]

Originally posted by Snow@Apr 2 2004, 11:53 AM

For a few years we have been hearing from the critics about how the LDS Church caused depression. Recently our very own little Trident has made similar absurd allegations saying that Mormon behavior was driven by fear.

It is pretty well known that Utah usually has the highest or one of the highest anti-depressant usage rates in the country. This immediately leads the low brain wattage types to suppose that Mormons, specifically Mormon women, are more depressed than other woman and it is the Church that is causing it. It is not too difficult for anyone with a brain that functions properly to understand that high medication usage does not automatically equate with high disease states (although no one ever accused our anti-Mormon critics of having properly functioning brains). So why would Utah have high anti-depressant rates if it isn't the Church that leads to depression. Maybe it's the weather, maybe it that the doctors have different prescribing patterns; there are lots of possibilities.

Now comes word that LDS woman, in fact, are not more depressed than their non-LDS national counterparts.

Study elevates LDS women

They're not a sad and depressed lot, Y. researcher says

By Carrie A. Moore

Deseret Morning News

A local researcher has good news for LDS women: They are less likely to be depressed than American women in general and show no major differences in overall life satisfaction compared to women nationwide.

But they do score lower on measures of self-esteem.

The findings poke some holes in the long-standing stereotype of LDS women as being more depressed, according to Sherrie Mills Johnson, a sociologist at LDS Church-owned Brigham Young University. Speaking Thursday during the semiannual meeting of the Association of Mormon Counselors and Psychotherapists (AMCAP), Johnson said attempts to tie LDS women's religiosity to increased levels of depression simply don't hold up under research scrutiny.... (see link for entire article)

http://deseretnews.com/dn/view/0,1249,5950...5053226,00.html

But you know, heaven forbid that the critics should bother to look into it before criticizing.

But they do score lower on measures of self-esteem.

This should bother you more than the anti-depressant issue. If the spirit of truth and rightousness prevails in Utah, why would Utah women suffer from LOW self-esteem?

[srm]

Some women who suffer drom depression don't seek help...they escape into drugs or alcohol. Mormon women don't have that option ergo; they escape into perscription drugs.

[Guest Starsky]

Originally posted by Jenda@Apr 2 2004, 06:16 PM

Starsky, every time I see your avatar, I think Tao is posting. Then when I read "I was a stay at home mom ..........." it just blows my mind. This is just getting weirder and weirder.

I guess I should change it for ya. :)

[Guest Starsky]

Originally posted by Starsky+Apr 3 2004, 09:40 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Starsky @ Apr 3 2004, 09:40 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--Jenda@Apr 2 2004, 06:16 PM

Starsky, every time I see your avatar, I think Tao is posting.  Then when I read "I was a stay at home mom ..........." it just blows my mind.  This is just getting weirder and weirder.

I guess I should change it for ya. :)

That is a point they seldom open....

Many non LDS women are drunks or abuse other forms of drugs.

So to be accurate in measuring how the LDS women are doing in compared to non LDS, this survey or study should have a full range of 'drug and alcholol' usage by women....otherwise it just isn't worth the powder to blow it to h......

[porterrockwell]

Originally posted by serapha@Apr 2 2004, 11:30 PM

Hi there!

It would be important to know the type of depressions that was being treated for an accurate statement to be issued.

http://www.psychologyinfo.com/depression/d...sion_types.html

The important point is that those that need help, find help. Sometimes God seems to heal the person from depression, other times, it appears that God has just left the depressed person on his/her own and at the mercy of the medications.

~serapha~

Actually, I am not a female(or at least hope not, I'd be a really fugly chic), but you also have to realize that sometimes these "depressions" help us learn how regulate ourselves and become stronger people. I have depression and anxiety, and when I got the MTC, they both went off the charts. I realized(after I got sent home), that it was a good thing that I had something to learn how to deal with and regulate. Let's not forget that the Lord inspired those who develop the medications that help us. So it really doesn't mean anything to me when I see that LDS women do have more depression than non-LDS women.

Draw what you will from it. However, I always hear that there are many of those who hold equally strong beliefs in morality that do not share the LDS faith with Mormons, and they are not at the same number of depressions as LDS women, so "pressure" of morality or commitment to faith has NOTHING to do with it.

One thing that never get's brought up is that our heritage is of pioneers who were persecuted greatly, driven from their homes, you name it, it happened to them. I can imagine through all the sickness, all the loneliness, all the stress, creating somewhat of a depressed state.

My mom has depression(for reasons I care not to mention) and it got passed down. I see no reason why that is not the case here. The foundation of mormon women may have developed it from unusually difficult lives and passed it down. There are just to many factors and possibilities to just come out and say that one by being exposed to the Mormon faith is at risk of depression.

[Cal]

This thread is depressing me, I think I'll go have a drink.

[Guest Starsky]

Originally posted by Cal@Apr 3 2004, 10:49 AM

This thread is depressing me, I think I'll go have a drink.

LOL

[Faerie]

Who gives a flipping flying cow if women in Utah suffer from depression and have to take anti-depressants?!?!?! The gospel brings happiness yes, but it's not a cure. I personally don't live in Utah, I dont' have to deal w/ the culture and social pressure that supposedly exists among LDS women out there. I do however suffer from depression, so does my sister and my neice. Good golly almighty do I feel like I'm doing something terrible and wrong because *gasp* I'm a member of the church and *gasp* I've had problems dealing w/ life...oh NO the gospel MUST NOT be true because HEAVEN FORBID we as humans suffer from human nature and go through life experiences that *GASP AND SHOCK* result in depression???

GIVE ME A BREAK...

Stop judging Utah..stop judging the WOMEN in utah..and stop judging the church based on something so stupid as anti-depressants...It's ridiculous!!! Christ never said that as followers of His faith we would never be sad or depressed. Anyone who thinks so needs a wake up call. How many MAINSTREAM CHRISTIAN women suffer from depression and have to take anti-depressants? I would guess a high amount. Does that mean that Christianity is false because Mainstream Christian women have to take anti-depressants? Do you see the ridiculous logic here??

Depression got a hold of me when I was dealing w/ hormonal imbalances and the stress of being infertile. I was on anti-depressants for a good year. Yes they helped, they didn't take away from my testimony...but they also took away my "drive" if you know what I mean, and that's a little counter-productive to the goal at hand. I'm glad I didn't live in Utah while I was on anti-d's, or else my self esteem surely would have gone to hell because of all these people judging women for a medication they take.

</rant>

[Tr2]

The gospel brings happiness yes, but it's not a cure

Then I guess it doesn't bring that much happiness.

I've had problems dealing w/ life...oh NO the gospel MUST NOT be true because HEAVEN FORBID we as humans suffer from human nature and go through life experiences that *GASP AND SHOCK* result in depression???

Depression is NOT normal, nor natural. If your religion doesn't help you get past your problems then why is your belief system anything special? You suffer the same bad things as everybody else, in fact you suffer statistically more, and then claim that your religion sets you apart and gets you closer to God. It seems like mormons have more problems than the people that they are above.

stop judging the church based on something so stupid as anti-depressants

There are mormons on this board who tell us to judge the mormon church by the fruit it produces. Kinda hard to ignore bad fruit like this.

Does that mean that Christianity is false because Mainstream Christian women have to take anti-depressants?

No, it's just the irregularly high numbers that people are taking notice of.

[Guest Starsky]

You know we really can't take that study seriously until it covers all forms of dealing with depression accross the whole spectrum of women.

Lets say we do a study on how women in general deal with depression. Like was mentioned before.....some women spend money, get into debt, leave their familes, drink, smoke grass, go into a world of their own and ignore the needs of their families in persuit of self-fulfillment...

The LDS women are taught to think of others and serve....Most times that requires a lot of sacrifice of personal needs, wants, and outlets which would help cope with life.

We are taught that the life to come is where our reward and fulfillment will come in spades... having died...I happen to know this is true and worth working for.

So, I may suffer from depression here because I am not totally fulfilled in the world's way.......but there are things we understand will be suffered and counted as added glory in the life to come...

Some endure poverty, some health issues, some family issues.....everyone suffers something sometime.....and if we can't drink our problems away, or have an affair while our marriage problems escelate...then yeah...we may suffer depression as we struggle to do the right thing.

He never said it would be easy....He just promised it would be worth it.

So...my point is this...when they get a study out which shows ALL the ways women, in general, cope with depression....and then show how the LDS fit into that chart....I will be interested..

I bet you will find that it will show that LDS women are the lowest on the chart when it comes to drinking, leaving their families, and doing illegal drugs....when dealing with depression....

Those make taking a legal anti-depressant look pretty tame in my book...LOL

[Faerie]

Originally posted by Tr2@Apr 4 2004, 05:49 PM

The gospel brings happiness yes, but it's not a cure

Then I guess it doesn't bring that much happiness.

I've had problems dealing w/ life...oh NO the gospel MUST NOT be true because HEAVEN FORBID we as humans suffer from human nature and go through life experiences that *GASP AND SHOCK* result in depression???

Depression is NOT normal, nor natural. If your religion doesn't help you get past your problems then why is your belief system anything special? You suffer the same bad things as everybody else, in fact you suffer statistically more, and then claim that your religion sets you apart and gets you closer to God. It seems like mormons have more problems than the people that they are above.

stop judging the church based on something so stupid as anti-depressants

There are mormons on this board who tell us to judge the mormon church by the fruit it produces. Kinda hard to ignore bad fruit like this.

Does that mean that Christianity is false because Mainstream Christian women have to take anti-depressants?

No, it's just the irregularly high numbers that people are taking notice of.

Depression is a disease..just like cancer..just like diabetes..it's a disease...so if the Mormon Church can't cure cancer, it MUST be false...

[AFDaw]

Originally posted by Tr2@Apr 4 2004, 04:49 PM

The gospel brings happiness yes, but it's not a cure

Then I guess it doesn't bring that much happiness.

That doesn't make sense at all. There are plenty of woman (and men) of many other faiths who suffer from depression and their church can't provide a cure either. So are all faith's inable to bring "happiness" because of that?

I've had problems dealing w/ life...oh NO the gospel MUST NOT be true because HEAVEN FORBID we as humans suffer from human nature and go through life experiences that *GASP AND SHOCK* result in depression???

Depression is NOT normal, nor natural. If your religion doesn't help you get past your problems then why is your belief system anything special? You suffer the same bad things as everybody else, in fact you suffer statistically more, and then claim that your religion sets you apart and gets you closer to God. It seems like mormons have more problems than the people that they are above.

Religion can not correct hormonial imbalances. And Peace is right in the sense the studies (all of them) mean diddly squat until they go into all the areas of depression.

stop judging the church based on something so stupid as anti-depressants

There are mormons on this board who tell us to judge the mormon church by the fruit it produces. Kinda hard to ignore bad fruit like this.

Yeah, but how many people pay attention to ONLY the bad fruit? Why not also praise us for our "good fruit" as well?

Does that mean that Christianity is false because Mainstream Christian women have to take anti-depressants?

No, it's just the irregularly high numbers that people are taking notice of.

Again, you can't really judge any of this until someone does a study on all aspects of depression.

[Tr2]

Depression is a disease..just like cancer..just like diabetes..it's a disease...so if the Mormon Church can't cure cancer, it MUST be false...

A woman from my church was healed of cancer just last year. Since your church is much truer than mine than you should have plenty of stories like this to tell.

There are plenty of woman (and men) of many other faiths who suffer from depression and their church can't provide a cure either

Such as........? My church does not fit into that description.

Religion can not correct hormonial imbalances. And Peace is right in the sense the studies (all of them) mean diddly squat until they go into all the areas of depression.

You are right, a religion can't do anything about that. However I have seen my God do that. if you haven't seen yours do such a thing then you should give mine a try.

Why not also praise us for our "good fruit" as well?

What is the good fruit?

[Snow]

Originally posted by Tr2@Apr 4 2004, 07:49 PM

There are plenty of woman (and men) of many other faiths who suffer from depression and their church can't provide a cure either

Such as........? My church does not fit into that description.

Religion can not correct hormonial imbalances. And Peace is right in the sense the studies (all of them) mean diddly squat until they go into all the areas of depression.

You are right, a religion can't do anything about that. However I have seen my God do that. if you haven't seen yours do such a thing then you should give mine a try.

Tsk, tsk, tsk,

Bad line of reasoning. Taken to its logical conclusion, the religion with the best healt would indicate being favored of God. Any guesses which one that would be?

Perhaps you should check out the study done in 1989 by James Enstrom, an epidemiologist at UCLA, on 400,000 California Mormon if you are uncertain.

PS. re. the lady and cancer -- remember what happened last time we looked into supernatural claims of a church that you attended... that God had anointed the mouths of the believers and turned their teeth to gold? Alas it turns out it was only iron pyrite.

[Behunin]

If LDS women in Utah are depressed, maybe it is from comments (taken as if a commandment) from Boyd K. Packer that women should stay at home. This combined with other priesthood "authority" that oppresses women who are LDS, I could see why this would lead to depression. Then I hear old LDS men pray how thankful they are for women, and how exalted they feel LDS women are, and then their actions of "women stay at home attitude" really contradicts themselves. LDS women who can not provide for themselves and are totally dependent on these men for their support are at their mercy. How depressing!