Teachers: Do you find it difficult to teach when the class is spread out?

[Sunday21]

Dear Teachers,

Do you find it difficult to teach when the class is spread out? I teach in a room that could easily accommodate 100 people. We normally have about 30-50 sisters. I have some people sitting in a separate area right by the door. One lady has mobility issues and needs to be close to the bathroom. Her daughter and sometimes a friend sits with her.

With the new manual, Teaching in the Savior's Way (if I got that right), we are to facilitate discussion rather than teaching a class. I find it difficult to facilitate a discussion with people spread out in different parts of the room.

I have:

2-3 sisters sitting by the door

A few sisters sitting in front of me.

A row of about 20 sisters three rows away.

A gap of several rows with sisters sitting in the back row

2-3 sisters from the presidency sitting on the same row as myself so I can't see them. (They are often dying to contribute but I am often not seeing them) I guess this front row seating system for the presidency is traditional.

I then have another couple of sisters sitting on the far left of me by the other door.

I confess  that I don't get why people are sitting so far away from me. It is hard to throw my voice down so many rows. it is hard to scan the room and look at people. See if they look bored and occasionally mutinous. I once asked the sisters to talk to the ladies that they visit teach (let's call them lista sista's) to see if the lista sistas needed a ride to the temple or maybe babysitting to assist the lista sistas in going to the temple. There was almost a riot.

Any way, any suggestions? It is hard to concentrate on the lesson, feel the spirit and continually scan the different parts of the room.

If I had a laptop, which sadly I do not, it would be tempting to have a laptop showing a video to encourage people to sit closer!

[zil]

7 minutes ago, Sunday21 said:

A gap of several rows with sisters sitting in the back row

Where do you have RS?  We never have more than 5 rows, if that, and the room wouldn't hold more, and I've never been in an RS room that would hold more than that (unless you put the chairs in the other direction, but then each row would only have about 5 chairs in it.

So, unless you're in the chapel, do all those rows have to be set up every week?  Is there some other class that needs those extra chairs, or couldn't you just set up fewer chairs?

Personally, I'm not bothered by where people are, but as I say, I've never taught RS in a lecture hall...

[Guest]

When I teach I ask people to bunch together.  I like to be able to see everyone I'm teaching because it makes me feel more connected to them.  I don't like having to turn my head a lot while teaching.  So, yes, it gets annoying when you have a setting like the RS room that is usually very wide with only three or four rows deep.

I once taught the Priest Quorum which is usually in the bishop's office.  I'm in the center and in a small room, everyone is in one row all around the perimeter.  So, some people are actually behind me when I look at the middle of the room.  I didn't feel effective.

Edited December 14, 2016 by Guest

[Sunday21]

Yes we set them up every week. Yes we have all these chairs. I help to set them up with a friend and we have tried to set up fewer but people complain or just go to the side of the room and set up additional rows.

[beefche]

I can understand your frustration, but you are dealing with adults. It sounds like some of the reasons are legitimate. So, how do you teach? Prepare and do the best you can. You have to allow 1) the Spirit to do the real teaching and 2) the adults to be responsible for their own learning.

 

[zil]

1 hour ago, Sunday21 said:

Yes we set them up every week. Yes we have all these chairs. I help to set them up with a friend and we have tried to set up fewer but people complain or just go to the side of the room and set up additional rows.

A) I would always set up only as much as needed (with a slight buffer) - more is a waste of time and effort.

B) If people insist, week after week, on setting up chairs in the distance, no effort of yours is going to teach them elsewhere.  Either they are doing this out of some psychological need to feel safe / comfortable (in which case this is what they need to eliminate their emotions from the distractions), or they're willfully rebelling and they're not going to feel the Spirit anyway.

The next time you set up fewer than all chairs, the RSP could request that people not set up more chairs, but rather avail themselves of existing seats.  (Just make sure there's enough that people aren't packed in like sardines.)  After that, well, agency is agency.

C) The alternative is to move the RS to a smaller room, if there is one available.

[Sunday21]

My RS president is a dedicated sit in the back row and fall asleep person! She is virtually a single mom, her husband lives in another country, with a special needs child and two other high energy kids, She is doing a phd in addition to her day job and also suffers from depression. Before she became RS pres, it was a real challenge to get her to speak, at all, to anyone. I am not talking about speaking in front of the class but to even utter a single word in the hall! No way is my RS pres going to help me with the chair issue. I think people have psychological/social issues and I just have to deal with it...buzz groups! They are just going to have to get used to buzz groups!

[cdowis]

Were you aware that it is OFFICIAL doctrine of the church that the teacher must stand in front of the room to teach a lesson??

Just kidding.  In this case I move around the room == I even go in the back of the room, in middle and to the side.  When a class member is speaking, I move AWAY from the person so that they will speak up.  I have even sat down in a chair in the back or middle.

It also takes the focus from the teacher, and on the teaching material.

The key is to keep the interest of the class regardless of where they are sitting, and you get more class  participation, rather than from the same old people.  I got this idea from a professor at Columbia University.

You might start the class by sitting in the back  as they come in, and then start the class off from there.

Edited December 21, 2016 by cdowis

[Guest]

1 hour ago, cdowis said:

Were you aware that it is OFFICIAL doctrine of the church that the teacher must stand in front of the room to teach a lesson??

Just kidding.  In this case I move around the room == I even go in the back of the room, in middle and to the side.  When a class member is speaking, I move AWAY from the person so that they will speak up.  I have even sat down in a chair in the back or middle.

It also takes the focus from the teacher, and on the teaching material.

The key is to keep the interest of the class regardless of where they are sitting, and you get more class  participation, rather than from the same old people.  I got this idea from a professor at Columbia University.

You might start the class by sitting in the back  as they come in, and then start the class off from there.

That is pretty creative.  I give you four stars for that one.

[Sunday21]

15 hours ago, cdowis said:

Were you aware that it is OFFICIAL doctrine of the church that the teacher must stand in front of the room to teach a lesson??

Just kidding.  In this case I move around the room == I even go in the back of the room, in middle and to the side.  When a class member is speaking, I move AWAY from the person so that they will speak up.  I have even sat down in a chair in the back or middle.

It also takes the focus from the teacher, and on the teaching material.

The key is to keep the interest of the class regardless of where they are sitting, and you get more class  participation, rather than from the same old people.  I got this idea from a professor at Columbia University.

You might start the class by sitting in the back  as they come in, and then start the class off from there.

Interesting! Never thought of this! Full marks for creativity! 

[anatess2]

I have no problem with the class spread out.  Our RS is about 10 chairs across and 5 chairs deep with more chairs lined up on both sides against the wall.  Sometimes, everyone is on the sides against the wall with only about 1/4 of the class sitting in the middle chairs.  It doesn't bother me to have to look at either side turning my back on half the class while teaching.

What bothers me though is the knitters.  We have a few sisters who knit/crochet/craft while the lesson is ongoing.  It helps them focus on the lesson instead of fidgeting through the whole thing.  But it doesn't make sense to me how they can focus and craft at the same time so it distracts me.  It's ok, though.  It is my problem as a teacher and I just need to focus some more on the lesson to keep myself from getting distracted.  The way I deal with it, I just think that the lesson is for them so I want them to be comfortable even as it makes me uncomfortable.

[Sunday21]

On 2016-12-22 at 10:43 AM, anatess2 said:

I have no problem with the class spread out.  Our RS is about 10 chairs across and 5 chairs deep with more chairs lined up on both sides against the wall.  Sometimes, everyone is on the sides against the wall with only about 1/4 of the class sitting in the middle chairs.  It doesn't bother me to have to look at either side turning my back on half the class while teaching.

What bothers me though is the knitters.  We have a few sisters who knit/crochet/craft while the lesson is ongoing.  It helps them focus on the lesson instead of fidgeting through the whole thing.  But it doesn't make sense to me how they can focus and craft at the same time so it distracts me.  It's ok, though.  It is my problem as a teacher and I just need to focus some more on the lesson to keep myself from getting distracted.  The way I deal with it, I just think that the lesson is for them so I want them to be comfortable even as it makes me uncomfortable.

Knitters! Now that is going too far! Echoes of the french revolution.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tricoteuse

Edited January 12, 2017 by Sunday21

[Guest LiterateParakeet]

It is curious to me that people are sometimes uncomfortable with knitters, or people that draw, but okay with note-taking.  My best guess is that they assume the note-taking to be some sort of compliment.  

I have to be honest, I have taken notes of things I want to remember, but if you see me writing in class, I'm more likely to be writing about what I disagree with!  And there may be some degree of ranting involved.  Be grateful if I'm knitting and not writing, LOL!  

[Sunday21]

@LiterateParakeet When they train you to teach in the church, eg Teaching no greater call, Teaching in the Lords Way, they stress that the teacher is not a lecturer but a facilitator. Our goal is to discuss gospel truths using the joint resources of the class. I am not trying to present material in the same way that I would lay out a meal, it is meant to be a potluck where we all contribute. When people sit at a distance from me or do something that indicates that are not engaged, I feel that they are not bringing their own dish to the potluck.

[Guest LiterateParakeet]

I like the potluck analogy.  At the same time, I am often frustrated by church culture's need for us all to be extroverts. Sometimes a person can be listening to the discussion and feeling the Spirit, but not commenting (for any number of reasons). 

I used to be one of those people who sat in the front and made comments in class. Now I sit in the back and rarely say a word. This has to do with my own stuff, and not the teacher. 

It would be a shame if we didnt invite introverts to our potlucks simply because they are quiet. That would imply that speaking is the only way to add value, and I'm sure that isn't what you meant. 

If you were referring to the knitting I mentioned, I haven't done that in sometime. When I did, it was because I was having a real struggle being there at all. It was during my days that I cried at church weekly. You just never know what is going on with people. If I knitted in class now, I would make comments to make sure the teacher knows I'm listening. But I seldom do that any more. Fortunately, I also haven't cried at church for awhile either.

[Sunday21]

@LiterateParakeet I am so sorry to hear of your distress in church meetings. You must have been going through some rough times! Glad to hear that things are better now!

RE knitting. I was picturing myself trying to teach above the din of private conversations, crying babies, people unwrapping sweets, and now the clicking of knitting needles.

i was once discussing with the 'teaching in the Saviors way' class how I learn names in my day-job classses. I take pictures and write names on the pictures. The RS pres type person asked me why I don't do this at church and I described the barbarous methods that I use to get people into groups and sit still for 30 seconds so  that I can take a picture! Come here! No you can't go for coffee! No you can't go to the bathroom! 

Sometimes I would like to unleash my work persona on my RS sisters to get them to behave in class. I did once threaten an RS pres person with a detention. I have asked several people if they would like to sit in the corner. Very effective actually! I am always telling them that the following material will be on the next quiz.

Actually these tactics work brilliantly on my mother, who is British, and very very badly behaved. If I tell her that she will fail the 'whole module'. She perks up considerably. I don't even know what a 'module' is, but it works!

i guess I feel a bit sad to see my RS sisters disengaged and: talking to neighbors, turning around to look at the clock, unwrapping sweets with crinkly paper. I don't feel that I am the voice of authority, ok I guess I could stop threatening them with detentions...although they do seem to like this! I just wonder why when I am teaching, the RS sisters see me as the voice of authority when I am trying to have discussions..ok maybe the threats of detentions should go...

I have come up with a few techniques: buzz groups, asking people the week before to prepare something, detentions (no scratch that last one) but I am always hoping to think of ways to engage the class. Any suggestions gladly received.

 

 

Edited January 12, 2017 by Sunday21

[Guest LiterateParakeet]

@Sunday21 I use bamboo needles. They are silent. Seriously, no clicking. I cant go back to metal needles now because I find the clicking sound annoying.

The sisters in your ward sound really disrespectful. Is it really that bad or am I misunderstanding you? 

[Sunday21]

@LiterateParakeet How clever of you, bamboo needles! I would never had thought!

My RS are quite rude. My city is known for having an unfriendly culture - former factory town now on hard times with quite a few refugees. Other Canadians are not fond of us. There has been little mixing with the rest of the country because people tend not to move here as there are no jobs. People who do come from other cities often get fed up and leave. The town was settled by immigrants from Italy and Greece who came from small towns and distrusted people from outside their own families. 

Within my ward, you see similar patterns. Quite a few people have told me that they have no friends in the ward and don't like the looks of anyone else enough to make friends with anyone! Bunch of crabby people!

Anyway, it is a self fulfilling prophecy. If you refuse to make friends, then yes, you will have an unfriendly ward. Our leaders are constantly trying to encourage us to more friendly to each other.

One big problem is that we are tired and fed up with being nagged at and overworked. The stake president has frequently come and balled us out. Number of temple recommends are low, visiting teaching and home teaching is low. People paying fast offering is low. You name it we are low. They have even come and read the stats to us. In large part, the leaders are unrealistic. We have people here with 10 people on their visiting teaching list so of course, they give up. Who won't give up with that number! I am exhausted. I just dropped one calling so now I am down to 2 callings. 

 

[Sunday21]

I think the role of the teacher is to disappear, to be merely a conduit for a classroom experience so that you do not so much lead the class but rather facilitate. 

Be sure you don’t believe you are the ‘true teacher.’ That is a serious mistake. … Be careful you do not get in the way. The major role of a teacher is to prepare the way such that the people will have a spiritual experience with the Lord” (Gene R. Cook, quoted in Teaching, No Greater Call [1999], 41).