Joy Joy Joy

[Annabelli]

Well.....Well.....Well !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Unfortunately, Can I ever take it back? Oh my, what have I done.

I am just in tears.

With all this talk about trolls, atheist, anti-mormons...etc, I pulled up AtheistForums.com.

I just wish that I had never seen that stuff.

Thank you Snow for calling trolls as you see them. I did not know Elphaba was in an atheist preisthood.

[prisonchaplain]

I don't know what to make of this post. What are we supposed to take from this?

[Doctor Steuss]

[...]

Thank you Snow for calling trolls as you see them. I did not know Elphaba was in an atheist preisthood.

Huh? Are you calling Elphaba a troll? Would you mind clarifying this a bit for those who are thick-headed such as myself?

[Josie]

Isn't it time we quit calling people names and acting like children and act like the adults we are suppose to be? We cannot dictate anyone else's conscious or beliefs, only our own. These forums are suppose to be to allow each of us to express our beliefs without taking away from anyone else or anyone's beliefs. We can all be here without running one another down and we can express our opinions without hurting others.

The last week has been crazy and I know these forums cycle back and forth, but come on people. Most of us come here to have a good time, see friends, and maybe express an opinion now and then and we don't have to spend our time here finding fault with one another and trying to pick one another and their beliefs apart.

Josie

[onyx]

I did not know Elphaba was in an atheist preisthood.

Elphaba, are you in an atheist priesthood?

[Adomini22]

If she was, does it matter? What is the purpose of this post? So atheist exist. Great. Elph doesnt agree with most of us regarding some matters. i actually like that. Elph doesnt even attack people on here, which I cant say the same for some.

[onyx]

If she was, does it matter? What is the purpose of this post? So atheist exist. Great. Elph doesnt agree with most of us regarding some matters. i actually like that. Elph doesnt even attack people on here, which I cant say the same for some.

Adomini,

My question was to Elph and was not by way of attack at all.

If you have read it that way you are mistaken.

My interest in asking the question relates to a facinating thread Elph started regarding women and the priesthood.

I have been following it with interest.

I thought Elph put a great deal of time, effort and detail into her postings on that thread.

If she is a priestess herself (regardless of what religion or non-religion), it would explain her knowledge and interest in the area.

I do not attack people on this site and I did not attack Elph.

I simply asked a question.

[Alaskagain]

OK, guys. I don't know what to make of this post, either.

Let's give Annabelli a little time to collect herself. Obviously, she is very sensitive. She has evidently read something that was a shock to her system and made the OP impulsively and without clarifying her thoughts. Maybe she will be able to do that if we all take a deep breath and step back.

[Annabelli]

Well.....Well.....Well !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Unfortunately, Can I ever take it back? Oh my, what have I done.

I am just in tears.

With all this talk about trolls, atheist, anti-mormons...etc, I pulled up AtheistForums.com.

I just wish that I had never seen that stuff.

Thank you Snow for calling trolls as you see them. I did not know Elphaba was in an atheist preisthood.

Yes, I guess it was a premature post as I had not really collected my thoughts. Maybe I am just a religious dummie about most things. I just envisioned atheist as a scattering of people who either denied the presence of our Heavenly Father and Jesus or hated them. I was unprepared to find that atheists is a large over populated organization who hate our Heavenly Father and Jesus.

It is the crucifixation of Jesus in our day. The pain that those forums brought me was more than anything that I can imagine.

It was my vanity in wanting to debate Elphaba that I went on those forums. And I will repent having made that choice.

It reinforced my already respect for the leadership of the LDS Church. Staying on that narrow path and holding to the rod have much deeper meanings.

Our missionaries do wear the armor of the Lord and as he said will be protected by him at all times. I can understand this much more clearly also.

It's a big world out there after all.

As for Snow, he is currently replying to dibster as a troll.

The atheist do have priesthoods with both men and women. We are one of the few large religions left who do not have women in the priesthood. And the atheist are using that to attract women to atheist.

[prisonchaplain]

I understand and I don't. I did not dig deeply into the site, but on the surface, it looked like they were interested in defending "free thinking" and materialism, vs. the supernatural. Perhaps they poke fun at religious beliefs.

Keep in mind too, that atheists probably receive more antagonism than LDS, from American society. So, there may be a bit of a chip on their shoulders.

Their "arrogance" in seeing religious people as superstitutious is not so different from our arrogance in believing unbelievers are "lost."

I've yet to meet a malicious atheist. On the other hand, they, like most groups, can be cruel if giving unchecked power. Thus, my signature--power really does corrupt.

BTW: If I had to guess, I'd say the athiest priesthood is something of a joke--orta like me being a consultant here, and some being dictators, etc.

[Elphaba]

Well.....Well.....Well !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Unfortunately, Can I ever take it back? Oh my, what have I done.

I am just in tears.

With all this talk about trolls, atheist, anti-mormons...etc, I pulled up AtheistForums.com.

I just wish that I had never seen that stuff.

Thank you Snow for calling trolls as you see them. I did not know Elphaba was in an atheist preisthood.

Hey Annabelli: Boo!

High Priestess Elphaba

[Snow]

I was unprepared to find that atheists is a large over populated organization who hate our Heavenly Father and Jesus.

Well technically atheists don't hate God as they do not beleive He existed. They may hate the idea that believers have about him however.

What's this got to do with our Elphaba?

[Elphaba]

Elphaba, are you in an atheist priesthood?

Yes, Onyx, I am. You might want to consider running while you still have a chance.

As of this very moment you are all under my power, but do not know it. Right now, one cell at a time, the spirit of this Atheist Priestess is removing the religious mitochondria in each of your brain cells. We atheist priestesses know how to do this through the internet, you see.

First, it starts with the Word Association Game thread. Ha! You thought I was just innocently typing in new words. Wrong! Each new word had a hidden meaning that triggered certain chemicals in your brain. You thought my words were random, but nooooooo, they were carefully chosen by my ATHEINIGMA machine. When I typed in the word, whomever was on line’s brain chemicals went to work, opening the cell’s linings and then, because I am an Atheist Priestess, I’d use my powers to remove your religious mitochondria, one cell at a time, until little by little I have quite a few of you under my spell!

Haven’t you begun to notice this by now? Case in point. Palerider punches holes in his walls because of me! Who could make him do that other than an atheist priestess?? Soon I’ll have enough of his religious mitochondria I’ll give it back to him to patch those walls up, and he’ll be so grateful to Elphaba, the Athiest Priestess. But not before I’m sure it’s enough that he doesn’t have to ever be worried about those silly religious rules again!

Heck, even Jason was nice to me the other day. He used to hate me and probably still does. But my ATHEINIGMA machine has helped me take over so many of his brain cells, he is now on his way to the Monastic Order of Atheist Priests up in Huntsville Utah, singing jolly songs, doing little jigs, and baking bread and beekeeping to keep the customers amused. And when I visit him you won’t believe how he'll thank me. It’s odd how grateful my victims are to Elphaba, the Atheist Priestess.

Then there’s PC. Everyone thinks he’s such a nice, Evangelical guy who works in a prison, and of course, he does. But lately, he actually talks to Elphaba, the atheist. You see, I have him fooled. He knows I’m an atheist, but he doesn’t know I’m "Elphaba, the Atheist Priestess!" (Shhh! Don’t tell him!)

What kind of Evangelical would talk to an atheist, I ask you? Well, PrisonChaplain, of course! (sniff…I get a tear in my eye when I think of him actually talking to me, the lowly atheist. sniff, sniff, Honk!)

I’ve been exceptionally successful with PC. We’ve even gone on chat, and my ATHEINIGMA machine has been literally smoking I’ve had to use it so fast, coming up with words to say to PC, because to be honest, his religiosity is so strong, his cells are really hard to open!

But Elphaba the Atheist Priestess will not be defeated! I merely turned on the charm--wasn’t I charming PC? I pretended I really liked him, which I sorta did, but because atheist priestesses must maintain our benign mission, I remained strong, and so PC, it was all an act!

Every word I’ve said to him has been the ruin of yet one more cell. I’ve been able to jump in, remove his shiny religious mitochondria, and though he was the hardest case yet, I promise you in no time he’ll be chanting with the Atheist Monks in Austria, his family in tow, and thanking me profusely!. Oh yes, Atheist Monks exist. You see, we’re everywhere, just waiting to take you over.

So yes, Onyx, I am Elphaba the Atheist Priestess. You better run now, as you haven’t been here for very long, and my powers only work through the internet. In fact, I happen to know your going to be an easy target, as you've already spent a lot of time on one of my threads.

Here, let me get out my trusty ATHIENIGMA (punching in code, concentrating . . . concentrating . . . hmmm. . . squinting eyes to focus invulnerable, unconquerable atheist priestess ray . . focus . . . . focus . . . . errr . . . POP! ) OOOUUUUUCCCCCHHHHH!

Darn! PC burned out my ATHIENIGMA machine and it gave me a bad code! Man that guy was hard to crack! These super religious types really chap my hide!

Well, Onyx, it appears you really lucked out this time. I guess I'll have to find my broom (I used to be the Wicked Witch of the West) and fly through Track 9 3/4 where they sell ATHEINIGMAs, and perhaps I'll buy a magic wand while I'm there to make this all go faster. You people are wearing me out!

So just you wait Onyx! You've been warned.

High Priestess Elphaba, the Athiest

Edited: I changed the ending as it was rude. I apologize to Annabelli.

[Snow]

<div class='quotemain'>Elphaba, are you in an atheist priesthood?

Yes, Onyx, I am. You might want to consider running while you still have a chance.

As of this very moment you are all under my power, but do not know it. Right now, one cell at a time, the spirit of this Atheist Priestess is removing the religious mitochondria in each of your brain cells. We atheist priestesses know how to do this through the internet, you see....

...As you can see, I’ve already destroyed one person’s brain. Unfortunately, I went too far . . . Sigh.

Elphaba

Yeah - unfunny. Can you answer the question?

[onyx]

<div class='quotemain'>Elphaba, are you in an atheist priesthood?

Yes, Onyx, I am. You might want to consider running while you still have a chance.

As of this very moment you are all under my power, but do not know it. Right now, one cell at a time, the spirit of this Atheist Priestess is removing the religious mitochondria in each of your brain cells. We atheist priestesses know how to do this through the internet, you see.

First, it starts with the Word Association Game thread. Ha! You thought I was just innocently typing in new words. Wrong! Each new word had a hidden meaning that triggered certain chemicals in your brain. You thought my words were random, but nooooooo, they were carefully chosen by my ATHEINIGMA machine. When I typed in the word, whomever was on line’s brain chemicals went to work, opening the cell’s linings and then, because I am an Atheist Priestess, I’d use my powers to remove your religious mitochondria, one cell at a time, until little by little I have quite a few of you under my spell!

Haven’t you begun to notice this by now? Case in point. Palerider punches holes in his walls because of me! Who could make him do that other than an atheist priestess?? Soon I’ll have enough of his religious mitochondria I’ll give it back to him to patch those walls up, and he’ll be so grateful to Elphaba, the Athiest Priestess. But not before I’m sure it’s enough that he doesn’t have to ever be worried about those silly religious rules again!

Heck, even Jason was nice to me the other day. He used to hate me and probably still does. But my ATHEINIGMA machine has helped me take over so many of his brain cells, he is now on his way to the Monastic Order of Atheist Priests up in Huntsville Utah, singing jolly songs, doing little jigs, and baking bread and beekeeping to keep the customers amused. And when I visit him you won’t believe how he'll thank me. It’s odd how grateful my victims are to Elphaba, the Atheist Priestess.

Then there’s PC. Everyone thinks he’s such a nice, Evangelical guy who works in a prison, and of course, he does. But lately, he actually talks to Elphaba, the atheist. You see, I have him fooled. He knows I’m an atheist, but he doesn’t know I’m "Elphaba, the Atheist Priestess!" (Shhh! Don’t tell him!)

What kind of Evangelical would talk to an atheist, I ask you? Well, PrisonChaplain, of course! (sniff…I get a tear in my eye when I think of him actually talking to me, the lowly atheist. sniff, sniff, Honk!)

I’ve been exceptionally successful with PC. We’ve even gone on chat, and my ATHEINIGMA machine has been literally smoking I’ve had to use it so fast, coming up with words to say to PC, because to be honest, his religiosity is so strong, his cells are really hard to open!

But Elphaba the Atheist Priestess will not be defeated! I merely turned on the charm--wasn’t I charming PC? I pretended I really liked him, which I sorta did, but because atheist priestesses must maintain our benign mission, I remained strong, and so PC, it was all an act!

Every word I’ve said to him has been the ruin of yet one more cell. I’ve been able to jump in, remove his shiny religious mitochondria, and though he was the hardest case yet, I promise you in no time he’ll be chanting with the Atheist Monks in Austria, his family in tow, and thanking me profusely!. Oh yes, Atheist Monks exist. You see, we’re everywhere, just waiting to take you over.

So yes, Onyx, I am Elphaba the Atheist Priestess. You better run now, as you haven’t been here for very long, and my powers only work through the internet. As you can see, I’ve already destroyed one person’s brain. Unfortunately, I went too far . . . Sigh.

Elphaba

bwahhhha hahh ahhhhaa....that was the MOST entertaining thing I have read in a very long while.

Gave me a big belly laugh.

Thanks for your imaginative humour Elph

p.s. my brain was destroyed long ago.....fell out with the placenta during my first delivery....haven't been able to find it since

[Annabelli]

<div class='quotemain'>

I was unprepared to find that atheists is a large over populated organization who hate our Heavenly Father and Jesus.

Well technically atheists don't hate God as they do not beleive He existed. They may hate the idea that believers have about him however.

What's this got to do with our Elphaba?

I would not ask you to go to AtheistForums.com. but they write that they hate God and Jesus. I don't know how anyone can misinterpret a hate statement and twist it into disbelief.

Elphaba list herself as an atheist in her profile. It displays everytime she makes a post. And she has talked about being an atheist in many of her post. If an adult proclaims to be an atheist, they have taken that yoke of beliefs and all the trimmings that come with it.

You could easily find her in the atheist forums because she has unique posting characterists.

[prisonchaplain]

Elpha just asked me if I was mad at her for her post? She all but expended her repetoir of adjectives for the word "nice" on me--and she's worried I'll be offended.

Maybe my fundamental-evangelical-pentecostal campaign of dissuasion is working here...only on the atheists instead of the LDS. Poor aim, solid result. Hey, another notch is another notch.

Boowahahahaha!

[Snow]

I would not ask you to go to AtheistForums.com. but they write that they hate God and Jesus. I don't know how anyone can misinterpret a hate statement and twist it into disbelief.

Elphaba list herself as an atheist in her profile. It displays everytime she makes a post. And she has talked about being an atheist in many of her post. If an adult proclaims to be an atheist, they have taken that yoke of beliefs and all the trimmings that come with it.

You could easily find her in the atheist forums because she has unique posting characterists.

Some atheists are jerks and morons but then so are some of us. She doesn't strike me as a big haterater.

What is her username there?

[Elphaba]

You could easily find her in the atheist forums because she has unique posting characterists.

I have never been to this forum you visited. However, if I had, it's none of your business.

I'm curious, what are my "unique" posting characteristics. They seem to upset you for some reason.

Finally, I assume you want to debate me because I'm an atheist. You thought going to an atheist website was a good place to find fodder with which to debate me?

In fact, why do you want to debate me at all? Why can't you live your life with your beliefs and allow me the same?

Elphaba

[shanstress70]

Even if Elphaba posts at the other forum and is called a priestess, so what? Why would you open a thread about that? And you think you can go to a forum with people posting from probably all over the world and pick out one little person's posts bc of her posting style? Give me a break! Forget that she says she doesn't even go to that forum... that's irrevelent bc if she does, it's no one's business. I think this thread is SO uncalled for and I felt I needed to speak up for this one. People with different beliefs than your own exist and always will. It's rare that people with different beliefs will try to get you, Anabelli, to conform to their beliefs or to harm you in any way. Live and let live!

[FrankJL]

You could easily find her in the atheist forums because she has unique posting characterists.

Is that the X-Files song I hear in the background?

Some of you people are just too paranoid.

[Snow]

<div class='quotemain'>You could easily find her in the atheist forums because she has unique posting characterists.

I have never been to this forum you visited. However, if I had, it's none of your business.

Blah. Wrong answer. This is America. If we're interested, then it's our business.

I'm curious, what are my "unique" posting characteristics.

Umm obsequious, faux intellectual, broad, sometimes clever, always with a secondary agenda.

Why can't you live your life with your beliefs and allow me the same?

Elphaba

Nonsense alert!

No one is not allowing you to live your life and your beliefs. In what possible way is a discussion of your belief not allowing you to live? Answer: It's not. Its a false protestation. Besides, the hipocrisy meter tells us that everyday you come to this site and discuss our beliefs. Why is it good for you but bad for others?

[Doctor Steuss]

11 We claim the privilege of worshiping Almighty God according to the dictates of our own conscience, and allow all men the same privilege, let them worship how, where, or what they may.

Perhaps I'm too liberal, but "worshiping" Aldous Huxley, Andrew Carnegie, Ernest Hemingway, Ayn Rand, Carl Sagan, Bertrand Russell, George Bernard Shaw, Frank Lloyd Wright, Thomas Edison, Freidrich Nietzsche, or even Anaxagoras or Democritus seems to fall within the "what" of this key tenet of our religion.

[Elphaba]

<div class='quotemain'>I have never been to this forum you visited. However, if I had, it's none of your business.

Blah. Wrong answer. This is America. If we're interested, then it's our business. No, it's not.

Elphaba: I'm curious, what are my "unique" posting characteristics.

Snow: Umm obsequious, faux intellectual, broad, sometimes clever,

Thank you for that feedback. What do you mean by “broad“?

always with a secondary agenda.

Oh, please. Who doesn’t have agendas? If someone were to map human brains in an MRI to determine their agendas, you’d blow up the machine!

Elphaba:Why can't you live your life with your beliefs and allow me the same?

Snow: Nonsense alert!

No one is not allowing you to live your life and your beliefs. In what possible way is a discussion of your belief not allowing you to live? Answer: It's not. Its a false protestation. Why is it good for you but bad for others?

Obviously I meant “have her beliefs and let me have mine.” I didn’t literally mean “live” her life. It’s a common expression, and you’re being coy by being so literal.

Having said that, you’re right. The majority of people on the board are very respectful of my atheism. Conversely, I am very respectful of their religiosity. Not once have I ever said to anyone they were wrong to believe in Mormonism, or what other religious belief they may have. I have never called anyone evil, misguided, duped, delusional, superstitious, or stupid. That is because I do not believe that. Just because I am an atheist does not mean I presume to know what a religious person’s experiences are. I acknowledge they have them and I acknowledge I do not understand them. I believe they are as real to the person as my lack of them is to me. I treat every board members’ belief with respect, even though there is a faction of them who do not believe that; unfortunately, there is nothing I can do about them

Besides, the hipocrisy meter tells us that everyday you come to this site and discuss our beliefs.

This "hypocrisy meter" resides in your own consciousness" and is not reality. I know there are people who believe that, but that is because they assume a non-member cannot possibly love the Church and not be a member. I've explained my feelings about the Church before, even to you. I love this Church, especially its history. It is my legacy and I am humbled by the courage and survival that has made it was it is today.

The difference of course, is that I don't believe in its divinity, and therefore I choose not to join the Church as that would be hypocrisy.

Nevertheless, that is why I come here daily. I love this board because I feel comfortable talking about the things that interest me, and feel a great deal of acceptance even though I am an atheist.

Of course there are those suspicious members who cannot imagine someone like me exists. And for you and those who don't believe me, I say tough. I know what I believe, not you.

You see, I would believe what you would tell me you believe, because I assume you are a truthful man, and because I believe people usually tell the truth. Conversely, I would expect you to believe me, as I also tell the truth. Of course, Snow, based on your Psych 101-level evaluations of my psyche, you will never understand the real me; instead you will continue to demonstrate your poor diagnostic skills that insist everyone fit into little pigeonholes, and if someone doesn’t, she is flawed somehow, and not to be believed.

I admit I am a challenging poster and that irritates people, who believe, wrongly, that I disapprove of the Church itself. I believe this misunderstanding occurs because 1) I am very blunt about presenting my points; 2) I present some difficult historical issues; 3) I write certain things so that it is easy for them to be taken the wrong way, and most importantly 4) I am both an ex-member and an atheist, so board members, like you, believe my intentions are to belittle the Church. Nothing could be further from the truth.

I do not criticize the Church; however, I do criticize actions certain members take that I feel are wrong. There is a difference. And that is my right. But I am under no illusion that what I think matters a whit to the Church or any of you. But I like being able to write about it and bring some perspective.

And believe it or not, while I seem to upset some of the people about what I write, I also get a lot of positive feedback. Many of the members here enjoy my posts, and when they see you’re “commentary” on my posts, they feel you are ridiculous and self-obsessed. I even end up sticking up for you! And yes, I understand you don’t need me to stick up for you.

The bottom line, the reasons I come here are 1) I am bed bound and go online to connect with other people; 2) my passion is Church history and I like to go to Church message boards; 3) I discovered this board and fell in love with it as it has the right mixture of interests; 4) I was able to write about Church history and the feedback I received showed many people were interested, though unfortunately too many were offended; 5) I’ve learned a lot from many members of the board, including historical facts about the Church, 6) I feel like I’ve been able to bring, and gain perspective from all the board members; and finally 7) I have made some very dear friends whom I talk to from all over the country.

I am actually a person of integrity, and you’re condemnation keeps you from getting to know a pretty wonderful person. Also, I’ve explained my love for the Church to you before, and the fact is if I say I love the Church, then I love the Church. Just as you couldn’t care less if someone doesn’t believe your testimony, I couldn’t care less whether you, or anyone else, believe mine.

Elphaba

[Snow]

No, it's not.

That's a snappy rejoinder - incorrect, but snappy. If I choose to discuss you atheistic beliefs, then it is my business, just like you make it your business to discuss our LDS beliefs.

What do you mean by “broad“?

Just that you are pretty well versed with interests that run in many directions. It's a compliment.

Oh, please. Who doesn’t have agendas? If someone were to map human brains in an MRI to determine their agendas, you’d blow up the machine!

My point was not about agendas. My own agenda is a pretty open book. My point is that you have a secondary (read veiled or hidden) agenda.

Obviously I meant “have her beliefs and let me have mine.” I didn’t literally mean “live” her life. It’s a common expression, and you’re being coy by being so literal.

Sorry - didn't mean to be coy here.

Having said that, you’re right. The majority of people on the board are very respectful of my atheism. Conversely, I am very respectful of their religiosity. Not once have I ever said to anyone they were wrong to believe in Mormonism, or what other religious belief they may have. I have never called anyone evil, misguided, duped, delusional, superstitious, or stupid. That is because I do not believe that. Just because I am an atheist does not mean I presume to know what a religious person’s experiences are. I acknowledge they have them and I acknowledge I do not understand them. I believe they are as real to the person as my lack of them is to me. I treat every board members’ belief with respect, even though there is a faction of them who do not believe that; unfortunately, there is nothing I can do about them.

I don't know if I am respectful of YOUR atheism. I don't really know what you believe or what you promote about it. I'd be interested to know what you do say on other boards about us 'believers.' In a larger sense, I personally don't get too bent at atheists. They're entitled to their religion and were entitled to ours.

This "hypocrisy meter" resides in your own consciousness" and is not reality.

Well - says you. I find your protestations to be hypocritical.

I know there are people who believe that, but that is because they assume a non-member cannot possibly love the Church and not be a member. I've explained my feelings about the Church before, even to you. I love this Church, especially its history. It is my legacy and I am humbled by the courage and survival that has made it was it is today.

The difference of course, is that I don't believe in its divinity, and therefore I choose not to join the Church as that would be hypocrisy.

I believe that you love or appreciate certain things about Mormonism. I think you have, to the keen observer, much antagonism towards the Church in general. It speaks to your secondary agenda.

Nevertheless, that is why I come here daily. I love this board because I feel comfortable talking about the things that interest me, and feel a great deal of acceptance even though I am an atheist.

Yeah me too. I like it here a lot.

Of course there are those suspicious members who cannot imagine someone like me exists. And for you and those who don't believe me, I say tough. I know what I believe, not you.

You see, I would believe what you would tell me you believe, because I assume you are a truthful man, and because I believe people usually tell the truth. Conversely, I would expect you to believe me, as I also tell the truth. Of course, Snow, based on your Psych 101-level evaluations of my psyche, you will never understand the real me; instead you will continue to demonstrate your poor diagnostic skills that insist everyone fit into little pigeonholes, and if someone doesn’t, she is flawed somehow, and not to be believed.

I admit I am a challenging poster and that irritates people, who believe, wrongly, that I disapprove of the Church itself. I believe this misunderstanding occurs because 1) I am very blunt about presenting my points; 2) I present some difficult historical issues; 3) I write certain things so that it is easy for them to be taken the wrong way, and most importantly 4) I am both an ex-member and an atheist, so board members, like you, believe my intentions are to belittle the Church. Nothing could be further from the truth.

I do not criticize the Church; however, I do criticize actions certain members take that I feel are wrong. There is a difference. And that is my right. But I am under no illusion that what I think matters a whit to the Church or any of you. But I like being able to write about it and bring some perspective.

And believe it or not, while I seem to upset some of the people about what I write, I also get a lot of positive feedback. Many of the members here enjoy my posts, and when they see you’re “commentary” on my posts, they feel you are ridiculous and self-obsessed. I even end up sticking up for you! And yes, I understand you don’t need me to stick up for you.

The bottom line, the reasons I come here are 1) I am bed bound and go online to connect with other people; 2) my passion is Church history and I like to go to Church message boards; 3) I discovered this board and fell in love with it as it has the right mixture of interests; 4) I was able to write about Church history and the feedback I received showed many people were interested, though unfortunately too many were offended; 5) I’ve learned a lot from many members of the board, including historical facts about the Church, 6) I feel like I’ve been able to bring, and gain perspective from all the board members; and finally 7) I have made some very dear friends whom I talk to from all over the country.

I am actually a person of integrity, and you’re condemnation keeps you from getting to know a pretty wonderful person. Also, I’ve explained my love for the Church to you before, and the fact is if I say I love the Church, then I love the Church. Just as you couldn’t care less if someone doesn’t believe your testimony, I couldn’t care less whether you, or anyone else, believe mine.

Elphaba

Ok - your remarks, though I don't buy all of them, stand on their own. Well said.